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In typical newbie fashion I started another thread months ago when I was looking for some vinyl top parts.
Project started on a whim, saw a fun looking car that was being sold on craigslist. Owner didn't know much about it but he was in a bad space and the car had to go. Paid $5k for it. I thought I had purchased a 455 engine at the time of purchase.
Turns out I actually have some form of a 425 (Engine block 389244D). Previous owner said it had been rebuilt 2k miles back (odometer currently reads a little over 60k, but I figure it has rolled at least one time in its life, but maybe not). So my current guess is a 67 toronado engine since it also has the "C" heads. I also had no clue what kind of transmission it had and seller didn't know either. Turns out it is a th 400 3 speed.
No leaks, nothing too funky. Interior is ok, lots of extra holes (someone tried to put an aftermarket speaker in dash) and general problems one would expect in a car almost 50 years old.
At this point I spent a few hundred hours getting it sanded down to bare metal, pounding out dents where I could, looked ok, and dropped it off for paint.
Paint was a bit of a nightmare as I was cheap and went with a crummy shop that gave me the best price. They actual did a decent job, but did not stick to the game plan at all, and it is probably the absolute least amount of layers one could put on the car and it look ok.
Currently still looking for someone in the bay area, ca that can do the vinyl top correctly. Seems to be a lost art around here and I may have to end up doing it myself as I have waited quite a few months already trying to find the right folks to do it.
Then I can put the back window back in and see where I am really at with the trim/molding situation. I am fairly sure I have 90% of the trim pieces, but I am missing some critical ones, such as a side rail that would go around the vinyl trim, already have one side rail, the two corner pieces and the back rail. If you have a side rail, let me know!
I attempted to put a radio in this last weekend, but quickly realized that i would need to put it off for another day as the wiring was all over the place and the red was really the ground and other "cute" things like that. So that will be another weekend rewire project out of the blue, it looked like before I started all the needed wiring was already available.
So I will continue to work on the car and try and give you updates.
1/14
* Installed a few additional pieces of trim (Middle trunk trim deck lid piece, have two sides but not so sure will put them on, like it with just the middle piece so far)
* purchased a second vinyl roof to install (first one was more of a yellowish cream color and I wanted pure white, so now thats what I have, maybe I can use the other one for some work in the trunk to make it look nicer)
* This was actually the day I figured out I really have a rebuilt 425 engine and not a true 455 engine. Possibly out of a 67 toronado. Has the C heads. Still stoked about it, thing goes like a bat out of hell, but am surprised!
* swapped in nice clean air filter
* replaced triple auto gauge guages, the temp gauge had crapped out so swapped for nearly identical model and everything is fine again
* drove her from Sunnyvale to Belmont and back, no issues about 50 miles round trip! Max temp during few periods of stop and go was 200 degrees, typically running at 185. So happy with that, when the temp gauge was out it made me worry. Dash lights may or may not work when it comes to the "hot" setting, buty not sure, they come on when I start the car but that is it.
Loaded up on the tow truck after getting it for a song due to the paint problems and urgent need to sell on sellers part
Just a few pictures here to give you an idea of what we started with here. Was a great 40 foot car, from pictures alone many thought it was already doen, so included the close up shots of the paint to give you an idea of what it really looked like also.
Few hundred hours invested so far. I learned a lot the hard way so sure it would represent far fewer hours if done by someone with experience! Used relatively cheap paint and took to a less than awesome auto body shop, but they worked cheap and worked with me. Would spend more the next time, but hopefully that wont be for a few years or on another car!
So eventually got the car back, they did a half *** job, but it was to be expected given the situation. Only two things bug me at this point with the paint, they did a crummy job near the top of the trunk deck area, already see some problems and I have quite a few little quirks to the paint.
Note this has not been cut n buffed or anything at this point, just post paint.
So now it has been well over a month since back from paint. Basically had it just sit in the driveway and didn't touch it to let the paint cure.
Have washed it and put some detailer polish on it (still not actually cut n buffed, will do that in the summer).
A few trim pieces are back on now, but am slowly doing it. I really like how the paint looks so am not in any hurry to cover anything up with the trim.
Sealed the roof a bit better in the pictures where you see what looks like a red top. Still can't wait to get the vinyl top installed!
What did i do that just irks the pro's of the group?
Since I am fairly naive and most of my "knowledge" has come from the internet, what do you guys see that makes you cringe? I always see these posts where folks rip another persons car for X, Y, and Z.
What are my fatal flaws here? Don't be shy, I am asking you to do it!
It looks good in the pictures. After cut n buff you'll know what you got but the paint shop may be the best ones to finish the job. If there are problems while buffing it seems they should fix it since you mentioned concern about thickness of coating. Good luck. I think the dog just called shotgun. 😉
Update time and hopefully later this weekend will have some new pictures. Found a shop that was willing to do the vinyl top. They screwed up a bit. Where they went wrong is apparently the guy that did it didn't bother to mask off the paint, so when he made the cuts and removed the excess, he took some paint with it. Pretty annoyed given, I am pretty sure i could have made that dumb mistake all by myself. They made a half assed effort to touch it up, will see when the trim is on if I can live with it.
Latest issues:
1. My interior lights have decided to stop working, checked the fuses, look fine, so will have a good time troubleshooting that mess.
2. Now that i have the vinyl top, need to figure out how to install the side emblems "C&S" potmetal things that plug into two holes and get secured by a speed nut i assume, anyone ever actually do this? Not sure how to gain access to the back to put on the speed nuts, suppose I can just use 3m molding tape but would prefer to do it right
3. Making some new noise that seems to be coming from the steering column, almost like a scraping noise, odd and annoying, zero work has been done to the suspension so far and I do see alot of wear on the bushings and a tear around some boots, will mess with that after i figure out the trim, which seems simple enough, although i may have a similar issue with the vinyl trim near the trunk and back windows, seems like the corner moldings also need a speed nut, so same as above on this, if anyone has adice, appreciate it
4. Tires are currently 275/40/20, which is not a stock size or equivalent. Prior owner did it to fill in the wheel well gap, and I do like the look and have no real desire to lower the car, so may just get a new set of the same tire size. I dont really care if the speedo is wrong, but what other issues am i not thinking about that a larger tire size may cause?
Things that have got better:
1. I think I still have an issue with a side marker light not grounding properly, but replacing the flasher, has got me to a much better spot. During the day with no headlights on, everything functions perfectly. BUT when headlights are on, the driver rear taillight goes black if i turn on the left turn signal. Much better than before where it would do much of anything with or without headlights. So that my reasoning for it being a bad ground, and possibly grounding via the brake light, read a bit on this, seems like a hunt and seek mission, and not too concerned as i dont plan on drivng it at night, and I can fake it pretty good for any police that may follow me.
2. put a few more minor trim pieces on and the wheel well trim, it is good enough for me. Only question left in that area is do I put the rockers back on or not, and since the shop that painted it filled in the holes well, it looks fine, but I did like that nice extra strip of chrome at the bottom when i purchased it, we shall see, but I assume this will be like the last thing on my lists since it looks fine for a driver quality car without them, but then again, already have them...
Whose dumb idea was it again to fix up an almost 50 year old car, oh thats right, my own, and loving it!
I know, I know, jst show us a picture man!! Will do soon.
Your light concerns may be as simple as a dual filiment bulb in the place of a single or vis-versa. Improper bulbs can do some crazy things, they try to ground the filiments etc. Check all the bulbs one by one for the proper bulb
Thanks Scottv442, good info on how it actually is supposed to fit. I already put the white top on, so, it is done for better or worse. With the white interior I have to admit I felt obligated to use white vinyl. Typically would be more of a black material type guy as well. I am probably going to put those psuedo stripes on the front hood, where it is more of an outline on the raised portion only, also will be white. I am pretty sure it wasn't really an option for this model, but keeping it original is already out the window, so not too concerned, and of course we all know stripes make it go at least 5mph faster!
Thank you as well 1970greensupreme, I did purchase a ton of replacement bulbs, so will first change them one by one and do a little test, if fixed, cool, if not, putting original bulb back and continuing on to the next one. Rinse repeat till did this with all of them and hopefully it is just some odd bulb issue. Fingers crossed that will be all that is needed!
What did i do that just irks the pro's of the group?
Since I am fairly naive and most of my "knowledge" has come from the internet, what do you guys see that makes you cringe? I always see these posts where folks rip another persons car for X, Y, and Z.
What are my fatal flaws here? Don't be shy, I am asking you to do it!
im no pro but most of the common items like headlight bezels, grills, bumpers, tailights are all correct for your 72 supreme, I guess the steering wheel would cause some friction for some and you could get the trunk trim but aside from that ...looking good
The steering wheel is one of those Grant ones that you can remove fairly easily with a key. I really do like taking it off every single time and carrying it around like a dork. I know at the end of the day any car can be stolen but I am hoping they didn't bring vise grips too! I figure all I can do is make it a bit harder for the thieves. I live in a nice area, but some parts of the bay area are very sketchy to put it kindly.
Some of you may have already saw the pictures from my question thread "So what happened was..." where the site gave me advice on how to get the emblems on the sail panels. Great pictures provided if you find yourself ina similar spot look that thread up.
Didn't do too much post vinyl, slapped on the drip rails, cut out some of the vinyl clip areas and did some minor weatherstripping replacement.
Lots more to do, but here are some updated pics post vinyl for those following along.
Has been way too long since I gave any updates, apologies!
More small bites taken:
1. Most of the trim/molding is on now (still need to put on about 5 pieces on the exterior)
2. Front and rear windshields now in all the way
3. Think I finally got my gas mixture right due to the high compression engine, needs about 93 octane to kill off normal driving pinging, and 95 octane if i really want to gun it. In California 91 octane is the best you can get at a normal gas pump. Do have one local station that has 101 octane so I just fill up some 5 gallon cans and mix 2 gallons of that with 8 gallons of 91 and the old girl is happy 99% or the time. If I know I am going to be hard on it, will up that to 4 gal 101 to 6 gal of 91.
Next up:
1. Still need to do a real cut n buff job
2. Have been scouring craigslist for a set of wheels more appropriate, but probably still not exactly what most here would go with, maybe something like a 17" torq thrust II type wheel, pretty generic and everyone has them but I like the look.
3. Related to #2, have yet to really do anything to the suspension, and it needs a new front end, the current tires really fill out the wheel well, and I like that. They really should be a size smaller (current: 275/40-20, should be something closer to 275/30-20), but I don't like the gaps, so possibly just bite the bullet and replace the front end steering and suspension parts that are all pretty beat up, figure out the tire/wheels combo and maybe lower it an inch or so.
4. Proper kill switch to complement alarm and removable steering wheel (in the bay area, CA, many classic cars get stolen daily so it is always on my mind)
5. Really clean the interior and see what ways I can clean it up a bit more on the cheap
6. Dive into the transmission, works fine, but is clunky, no clue what my rear end ratio is and things like that so interested in taking it to someone who can tell me, hoping the suspension guy can also give me some help here
Just trying to find that happy medium between adding new modern touches, keeping the cost down, and still paying respect to the original design. Not so easy, choices have to be made if you care about a budget and I sure do.
Always amusing to see what I thought I was going to work on next in my thread, never seems to actually work out that way.
So took a nice long 100 mile drive and just could not shake a cooling issue any time I was stopped at a light for longer than 5 minutes. Nothing visually wrong that I could see and when moving, cooled right down so wasn't terribly worried.
Buuut, I can't leave things like this alone so started giving things a better look over and reading all the threads here about people overheating and blah blah. Followed what people said and didn't find any easy wins.
Bought the prestone flush, pulled the lower radiator hose to let some fluid out, and dumped in the flush dluid and filled back up with distilled water. Drove around for 30 minutes and proceeded to flush it out for about an hour. Lot of junk came out, it felt productive. So thought I would let her heat up again and see where I was at. Still overheating but then it was up to say 10 minutes before it would get to 230. So stepped it up and got two bottles of thermocure and let it do its thing for a few days. I only drove the minimum amount of time (4 hours) and then dumped the fluid out. Was very nasty black and smelly. Flushing was taking forever and it was so black that I figured, screw it, and pulled the water neck off and thermostat off as well to speed things up.
At this point I decided to remove that radiator cover, top metal piece, to really give it a better look over. Boom! I see a small leak on the other side of the radiator. Looks like it has been there a looooong time too and that folks had done the stop leak thing to it, a few times.
So now that I have everything out, the radiator, goose kneck, thermostats, I notice gosh it sure would be easy to change the water pump now.
So in typical me fashion I am now knee deep in another good time.
Have the ebay special 4 row champion radiator with 14" electric fans shipping, flowkooler water pump and gasket, thermo stat, bypass hose (cut it on accident) also on the way.
So think this is that point where the budget, is out the window. One nice thing about having fun and taking your sweet time and actually driving these old rigs, is it allows you time to get more $$$!
Will be interesting to see if this overkill gets me where I want to be, which is a solid cooling system I feel comfortable taking over the mountains in hot weather. I have read others comments on you shouldn't need all this to keep them cool, and maybe even agree on a technically accurate level, but see no reason not to take advantage of the modern tech to help my cause. A rock works but a hammer works better.
So the engine compartment is no longer a virgin to me. Such a pleasure to work on this car as opposed to some import that you have to remove half the engine to see a starter.
Looking at my list above again, did a half-*** cut n buff of the hood only, not so sure it is worth it. While looks better, doesn't look that much better so will see if I get bored enough to do the rest of the car. Have still done nothing with wheels, tires, suspension or the front end.
Had another embarrassing moment on here, asked about a part I thought was something to do with the A/C, if I could remove it. Turns out it is an aftermarket transmission cooler, so guess I will keep it and see how I can incorporate it with new radiator and fans setup.
New fun problem, interior lights decided to short out, someday will figure that out. No shortage of work at this point and takin g advantage of nice weather after work each day to get a little more done. Somewhat stuck at the moment waiting on parts to start arriving.
Pictures are just of the nasty water in the buckets and just a general one of the water pump.
Was going to update this thread with my latest "work" but can figure out how best to do it so linking to the other thread so you can see the ups and downs of figuring out which water pump I needed, why you should just measure the darn water pump and not buy multiple ones, along with good info from others around leaving the damn pulleys and everything else alone!
I like to think me making all the mistakes for you, is going to help the next person, so I try to keep it pretty real in my descriptions and thought processes. Right and more often then not, wrong.
Pic of the end of the day with new radiator hoses, new alternator and power steering belts, new flowkooler water pump, molodon thermostat and champion radiator, 14" fans with shroud installed.
Since it now cools insanely well, need to get a hotter fan thermostat temperature sensor so it wont turn on till 200 degrees and shut off at 185, to go with the 180 degree thermostat. As far as I can tell the current setup turns on at some really low temp, like maybe 160 degrees. American volt had a 1/2 NPT fitting that looks like it will do the trick, got a 200 to 185 and a 190 to 175 in case they have any variation I dont like and frankly power vs grounding 1/2 NPT units are getting hard to come by, so other will serve as a back up if it works out. Feeling a bit miserly, starting to stock up on anything that fits well!
Finally found a set of wheels I can live with, and purchased some Cooper tires. Went to get them installed and...problem! Didn't even see it coming AND will also expose something, I apparently have never even attempted to remove the wheels! Never needed too, with the big old 20" rims everything was very much so accessible.
So after getting the new wheels and tires mounted, went to install them on the car. Front driver wheel has a seized lug nut and a broken wheel stud to boot! Suppose I am lucky to have driven it some 1k miles like this without additional issues. So will see how big of a deal this will be to get fixed up. Seems like a labor mainly issue which is right up my alley, parts are a few dollars. Will see if I can do it.
If curious what I went with:
Wheels: 15x8 Ridler with -12mm offset, link: https://ebay.us/Byp0Wo
Tires: Cooper 245/60r15
Goal of course being to get away from the "donk" look and get back to a more classic/original look. Also will be nice for the speedo to be somewhat accurate, currently shows 70 when going 80. 15" wheels with more tire looks better to me at this point in life. Will see when on the car though. Keep in mind anyone looking at older pictures those 20" rims have 275/40/20 tires on them, which is much taller than stock. So may be of interest for anyone else in a similar situation.
Things are rainy around my way these days, so may have more time on my hands. I tend to get more of this stuff done when the weather is crummy.
Will try and snap some photos of just the pure wheel swap, but may not happen as the same shop may be doing the new springs and shocks also. Will certainly get photos of it after that if not earlier.
Other misc items fixed/repaired lately:
1. Sealed the trunk with flex seal. ghetto fix for leaks but worked well and I can leave the car in the rain without a swimming pool in the trunk.
2. Took the doors apart trim wise and used a vinyl dye to try and get things matching a bit better, previously had maybe 4 different shades of red on the inside doors between the armrest, the door pulls, and the door carpet. Looks ok, I am too cheap to buy new door panels and hardware since it is just cosmetic if wondering why I went this route.
3. Keep playing the fix a short game. Rear brake lights act up occasionally still but much less and at least one light is always working so not in fear of the cops. One item that just seems to show up 1 out of ten drives is the windshield wipers will do this kind of partial movement for no reason/no switch hit. Not really sure what that is all about, but it is way down the list of concerns since I don't really plan on this being a rainy day car.
4.
Small items fixed up along the way, put in stereo and speakers. Nice to have tunes. Purchased some kick panels and they worked out well, painted them to match. Also took some time to clean up the wiring under the hood, has made a huge difference in the one off random electric issues, just a ton of corroded wires replaced. Got way more out of that than I expected. And last thing of interest is fixed the seized lug nut and replaced wheels n tires fully now.
January 15th, 2018, 08:51 AM
