$30,000 paint job

Old March 17th, 2009, 10:00 AM
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$30,000 paint job

well well well... i have a story for you all...

I asked for a quote from a guy who paints and he quoted me at just under 30,000... WTF? 30k for paint?

how much should a paint job cost? No clearcoat nothing fancy... just panama blue in white is all i want... I'm not a millionaire... I make minimum wage and that nowhere near 30k
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Old March 17th, 2009, 10:14 AM
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30K??
Maybe a miscommunication within their shop for 3K?

For nothing too fancy, 3K USD sounds right. I have heard supurb 'everything' jobs costing around 10K, but nowhere near 30K.
Now what is the exchange rate from US to CA? Still no excuse for being that far off.

What kind of paint? How in depth are you going with the job? Strip to bare metal? Are you doing door jamb and under trunk lid? Are they taking the whole car apart and reassembling or just masking stuff off? Is this two-tone?
Knowing these may help us give you more of a ballpark cost...
It CAN'T be 30K... (If so, I must really be getting old. I remember the days when a good paint job was 600 bucks and the crappy Earl Shieb special was 199....)

Last edited by Lady72nRob71; March 17th, 2009 at 12:18 PM.
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Old March 17th, 2009, 11:07 AM
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What's not being said is more important than what's being said...

One- "It's an old car and old car owners are all rich, so I see an opportunity to make a pile of money"

Two- "I don't really want to fool with it so I'm pricing it outrageous so you'll go away"

If you can do the body and prep work yourself you can save quite a bit. Does your school offer an autobody class?
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Old March 17th, 2009, 12:16 PM
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I don't know if I can add much to help but I can share my experiences. It was almost 20 years ago when I got quotes to paint my '68. Back then, they ranged from $3k to $5k and that was if I removed all the chrome and trim pieces. So, I bought a "how to paint" book, a compressor, paint gun, paint and all the misc. papers and polishers for less than $1k and did it myself. Lot's of mistakes but I fixed them myself and learned from it. Recently I asked a painter "friend" what he would charge to re-do the car now. He estimated $10k and that's again with me removing all the trim. I guess I'll refresh my painting ability because I still have all the hardware.
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Old March 17th, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketraider View Post
What's not being said is more important than what's being said...



...Two- "I don't really want to fool with it so I'm pricing it outrageous so you'll go away"...
What he said!
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Old March 17th, 2009, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketraider View Post
If you can do the body and prep work yourself you can save quite a bit. Does your school offer an autobody class?
That's a great idea. Not sure what the situation is in NS, but here in Toronto, the local community college's transportation department has a $30 million facility, not including the free stuff they get from companies. Evening autobody and auto painter courses are around $200-$300 for around 50 hours of instruction depending on the course.

People take in their cars and spray them in the booths at the college all the time. The booths are more state of the art than what you'll find at the majority of professional shops. Best of all you only have to pay for the course tuition and paint. Good paint costs money, though. But not $30,000.

Anyway, good luck.

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Old March 27th, 2009, 09:34 AM
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I went the local community college route on Friday nights/Saturday mornings, for 4 years (the Flat Top was a $200 vehicle when purhcased from a farmer that fed his cows out of it). She looks a lot better now! If you can finish the car (all prepping/sanding/smoothing/etc) in a 6 week period, it will be well worth while, a great learning experience, working with class materials/booths/instructors/etc. Be prepared when you go to purchase your paint, it is considerably more expensive that you think it is. Most paint stores (in Texas) give you a 10 to 15% discount because you are a student at the local CC.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 03:03 PM
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And we have enjoyed the JWO stories about the car!
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Old March 27th, 2009, 04:18 PM
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One guy in Southern Maine, he charged $20,000 to do a red 1966 GTO.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 04:52 PM
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NEW PAINT

My paint and body work cost about $15K and that was 3 years ago. But this was paint with all the bells and whistles - clear coat and all. And, they had to completely replace the driver side quarter and do a lot of reconstruction in the trunk lid, as well as remove some rust in the passenger side quarter wheel opening at the top. So, in my opinion, $30K sounds way out of line!
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:02 PM
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After the guy said "$30,000", my next question would have been, "what is the process, what is included, dents, rust, strip to metal door jambs, underhood, what materials etc.?" Kind of call their bluff...
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Old March 28th, 2009, 01:00 PM
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yes, throw them a cruve ball. Ask, "What does that cover?", and do not excpet "everything." I am learing "everything" encludes everything, except "that, that, this and that" "oh, did you want to do that? That is extra, too"
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Old March 29th, 2009, 10:16 AM
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I had mine repainted last year. No rust car with minor, very minor, road dings. Verutally no body work. It was repainted the same color because the paint had faded real bad on the trunk and hood.

I didn't ask for a fancy job. I just wanted it to look good. Hopefully as good as the day I bought it. The guy did use a clear coat, or two, or three, or????? I think he covered up a few dings with layers of clear coat then sanded it smooth?

It is an ok job but I think if I had taken one of those classes at the JC, as mentioned above, I could have done a better job myself.

Cost me $3500. Oh did I mention, this is a convertible. No top to paint.

He actually wanted anoter $500 in cash but after I had a good look at it he can kiss that $500 cash, good by.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 10:19 AM
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30k, holy crap! How bad is the car? I would shop around to get a few other estimates. I agree with what others said so I would stay away from that place.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 11:09 AM
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No Paint job on planet earth is worth that amount of Money. I'd tell him so right to his face.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 04:57 PM
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Wow, this is insane how much money has been spent on body work. I have a friend that works for 45 dollars and hour and can do anything, I do everything I possiably can myself and let him do what I cant do. Paint is crazy expensive. Just the paint I want for my car is coming in at 500 dollars. When buying a car its worth it to get one with no dents and no rust. Body work is expensive, crazy expensive. I am glad I have a buddy in the bussiness.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by American Lead View Post
well well well... i have a story for you all...

I asked for a quote from a guy who paints and he quoted me at just under 30,000... WTF? 30k for paint?

how much should a paint job cost? No clearcoat nothing fancy... just panama blue in white is all i want... I'm not a millionaire... I make minimum wage and that nowhere near 30k
Not trying to defend the guy, but he really doesn't want to take on the job. If the car is the one in your thumbnail, it is a lot more than just a simple paint job. It appears the car has a lot of surface rust (typical of mid '50s GM cars thanks to crappy paint jobs from the plants). If that is the car it appears to me all the chrome and glass needs to be removed and the car media blasted down to the bare metal and then primed with epoxy primer. You are talking about many man hours in simply getting ready to media blast and a bunch of shop space being taken up for all the parts removed. Then figure on all the man hours to paint prep, paint, and the putting back of all the trim removed. And I didn't even mention all the rubber seals and gaskets that will be discovered as requiring replacement before the glass and the doors are put back on the car.

The guy knows he cannot do a paint job that you will think quality enough not to be complaining about a year later, maybe sooner. That's why he quoted you the outlandish price.

Then you also have to consider a collision repair shop can turn out dozen's of profitable insurance jobs in the overall time and man hours it would take just to do your car.

Last edited by Texascarnut; May 9th, 2009 at 10:02 AM.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 10:32 AM
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I think the insurance profit racket is the big reason shops don't want to mess with a collector car. That and they know the owner is likely to be more "discriminating" than the average Joe who just wants his car back, fixed good enough to look halfway decent and be drivable.

Guess that's why restoration-oriented shops charge what they do.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71 View Post
30K??
Maybe a miscommunication within their shop for 3K?

For nothing too fancy, 3K USD sounds right. I have heard supurb 'everything' jobs costing around 10K, but nowhere near 30K.
Now what is the exchange rate from US to CA? Still no excuse for being that far off.

What kind of paint? How in depth are you going with the job? Strip to bare metal? Are you doing door jamb and under trunk lid? Are they taking the whole car apart and reassembling or just masking stuff off? Is this two-tone?
Knowing these may help us give you more of a ballpark cost...
It CAN'T be 30K... (If so, I must really be getting old. I remember the days when a good paint job was 600 bucks and the crappy Earl Shieb special was 199....)
Hey Rob, maybe we're both getting old. A Good paint job up here is way more than 600 bucks. My 98 is in the shop right now getting the do over because of rust on the rear quarters and the inner seams on the lower sections of all 4 doors. So, 2 new rear quarters from a good donor (a rare find up here), and 4 new doors + paint (base/clear) + labor + refit and transfer electrical / glass etc to the new doors is about $5,000.00 That includes jambs, and the whole shebang. There's a catch. I do business with this shop quite often and know the owner. The work I'm getting is AAA best and the pricing is best buddy price - he's not making anything on this. And it's been in the shop for 2 1/2 months. If I was Joe anyone else walking in for an estimate, the price would be about $9,000.00 or more (read into this that I really love my 98 or it would be left as a really ugly rust bucket)

Originally Posted by American Lead View Post
well well well... i have a story for you all...

I asked for a quote from a guy who paints and he quoted me at just under 30,000... WTF? 30k for paint?

how much should a paint job cost? No clearcoat nothing fancy... just panama blue in white is all i want... I'm not a millionaire... I make minimum wage and that nowhere near 30k
[quote=American Lead;70145]well well well... i have a story for you all...

Hey A. L.
Guess the thing that would really set this straight is, exactly what did you ask him to do? Was it something like: How much to restore this baby?

Also, what kind of guy who paints? Was this at a professional shop or some fly by nighter? The other guys may be right that he was just trying to blow you off with a scary high price. On the other hand, he might not have really understood what you wanted. If it's a full blown resto that he quoted you, I'd jump all over it like a fly on *****, especially if his credibility and shop are good. You'll never get a price that low to do a full resto.

If you're just looking for a fast paint, and taping and overspray don't matter, take it to MAACO. If the car has any rust, I only know of 2 local shops that will touch it. Be prepared. You can save time ($$) if you prep it yourself, but there likely won't be any warranty on the paint job if you do.

There's a lot that hasn't been said by both him and you, so this whole thing is just speculation right now.

Paint job prices? Depends. If you buy a boat or motor home you don't think twice about it. Some of the fancy ones out there are sporting paint jobs that run from 50,000 - 90,000 bucks. So the whole idea of a car costing 30,000 may seem high at first glance. Get a detailed list of what's included and the number of hours the project will cost. No one's made of money these days. But if you ever have to spend that kind of money, it's nice to have an idea of how it's being allocated.
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Old May 10th, 2009, 06:42 PM
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As mentioned, it all depends on what will be done for how much. Looking @ the photo quickly + distant I don't know how far off the guy actually is. Disassembly(NOT FRAME OFF), documentation of hdwe, glass removal, partial(at least) interior removal, safely store parts appx 20 hours. Strip paint from each panel, underside of hood/trunk, edges/jambs & rough sand appx 30 hrs. Rust, lets say it is WAY above average and needs ONLY 20-30 hours of fabrication/welding(or bonding in patches), lets round it to 25 hours. This would be typical for Lower qtrs & fenders,patched, could also need some rocker/door bottom work. This is perforated (or soon to be) sheet metal, say lower six inches of panels. If car was super clean, it goes lower, usually it will be higher. Better hope there is no structural rot, rot under molding areas, body mounts, floor, frame, glass channels.

Running Total for bare steel car w/ roughed out rot repair 75 hrs/$45=$3375 + materials ($100-200). ($3600)

At this point some shops epoxy prime everything prior to body work, some don't, let's say they do- clean/mask body & shoot + clean/mask(Doors w/ hdwe still inside etc) each panel(6 pnls assuming 2 dr), combine hang in booth/set up on stands & shoot- conservative 12 hrs, $200 mtls.($750)

Body work-who knows, I would say average 5 hours per panel, some may need 1-2, some 8-10. 5 hours x 11 = 55 hours, $100 mtls ($2500)

Back to the booth, epoxy prime again(for corrosion resistance) + HEAVY fill prime & guide coat. 10 hours, $300 mtls ($750)

Long Board/block sand, additional body work 40 hours, $100 mtls ($1900)

There are wide divergences on the continued skinning of this cat, but here is the way I would do it. Back in the booth, spot epoxy any sand throughs & new body work, Prime in appx color of car for final block out. 10 hours, $200 mtls ($650)

Wet sand/ final prep 40 hours, $50 mtls ($1850)

Prep/paint hood & trunk undersides 6 hours, mtls $100

Mask & paint Body 12 hours, $500 mtls ($1100)
Mask & paint parts 20 hours $500 mtls ($1400) (2 booth fulls)

2 tone, Red in color, metalic requiring panel separate panel edging prior to assembly + masking assembled body for pain, resto nuts/bolts/hdwe? - Add $$$$ but not addressed here

Sand & buff 24 hours, $100 mtls ($1100)

Assemble car 40 hours ($1800)

2 sets of floor filters for the booth 1.5 hours + $100

$18k looking @ a thumbnail & being conservative(I also don't know much about the specifics of 50's cars but the basics are all the same).

I think these figures are about average, I usually only get involved "A" & "F" bodies & Vettes all of which are smaller cars & not as old, lotsa parts avail. By average I mean that only some cars are in better shape than what I describe(time wise), most are worse. Now start talking weatherstripping, trim & bumper replacement/resto and all of a sudden $30k can approach without difficulty. This is for what I would consider a well done resto without getting silly. Remember this is for a rolling chassis w/ no underbody work. Get ready to double it if lifting body.

I realize this started as Paint job-$30k but you would typically be looking @ figures similar to mine for a pretty basic body work/paint job. Custom paint work w/ little or no body work could cost $30k but I don't think that is what we're talking here. There are many ways to go about jobs like this & many different products & processes that vary by shop & paint system.

Every person & every shop has their own idea about what a "paint job" is and what "quality" means. If as Allan R points out you just want to buzz it down & shoot it, Maaco is the way to go, I send people there all the time because they can give that person the paint job they are looking for at less than my cost of materials.

Most shops don't want to do restos because they lose their *** on time they don't bill because it is poorly tracked, afraid to have customer stop in a weekly/biweekly/monthly basis to pay bills accrued-extremely traumatic for inexperienced resto customer. Frequently the car gets pushed to a dead bay(not to mention it is killing 2 bays w/ parts off) because they realize too late what they have gotten themselves into or to do collision work. Don't know where you got impression that there is a big profit in insurance work but I wouldn't call a %2-3 percent net lucrative. Shop is doing work @ warranty time for a labor rate appx half of mechanical shops. The "insurance" or collision work is done for cash flow to keep the lights on. Money can be made by cutting corners or in large volume of work but it otherwise takes a very efficient shop to keep their head above water.

You may not be able to tell, but I am in the auto body industry.

Last edited by bccan; May 10th, 2009 at 06:46 PM.
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Old May 10th, 2009, 08:18 PM
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So, bbcan
Where do you hail from? Sounds like you're up in Canada with us good olds boys, eh?

I haven't seen a detailed quote like that since I restored my Cutlass back in the 80's. Ken was meticulous in his record keeping - especially the finances. He would call me anytime there were hidden issues that came up. He would put the car on hold until I could come and look at it. Not many shops would ever do that considering space/productivity. I finally told him to just go ahead and fix anything that was a problem. Just take pictures so I could see it later. No point holding both of us up on fixes I'd approve of anyway. Of course you have to have some trust, and Ken was also a friend who took a lot of pride in his work and was more ethical than anyone I ever met (exept me of course - ha ha). He took pictures as he progressed through the job. Too bad they didn't have digital cameras back then, or I could also have got him to run some mpegs as well.

The other thing that made it easier back then? HA- I was single and could spend my money however I wanted. Sometimes...wellll, heck you know how it sometimes just doesn't work out for the love of trying.......... Now that I'm married I can still spend my money any way I want, as long as the wife approves it first.
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Old May 10th, 2009, 09:25 PM
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From way down south - Connecticut!

We generally come up w/ a ballpark so that owner can bail out before stepping into the abyss of a resto. The people we do resto work for have seen cars we've done & trust us to do their car even though we are primarily a collision shop. Sometimes they take a while(we make that clear up front) because they are done when time allows + nights & weekends as extra project. The average person can't even begin to realize how much work it takes to restore a car decently & I'm not talking "nut & bolt" or concourse type work, these are jobs you have 500-1000 hours into & the guys who do them don't work for $45/hr either. The results however speak for themselves but there are only so many cars out there that warrant this type of attention & can recoup the investment. The rest of us have to go by my formula that if the car is worth only slightly less than you have into it, then you're doing well. Best of all is the guy w/ say an unmolested W-30 in excellent shape that just needs a "paint job", he puts $6,8,10, maybe $12k into it & it is like new again + worth a lot more than work cost.

Digital photos & email are a great boon to the resto process.

The example I gave is a "typical", above average "A" body resto. Car would have been a respectable driver condition that owner finally has decided to commit to putting back in the condition of it's glory days-which means it typically is done w/ more care & far better mtls than original. Doing a 72 442 vert(on the side) w/ a friend. He's actually doing body, I'll handle parts procurement, suspension & engine rebuild. This car is nice, original owner-my friends & I drooled over this car in high school long before I ever came to know him. It is getting qtrs, whl houses & fenders, frame on w/ engine rebuild & I have to guess he will be out $20k+ even w/ being a side job & getting a lot of cheap labor & parts @ very reasonable prices. Just finishing up 70 Supreme for my son who is 17 and has been quite involved in leisurely restoring his first car for the last 4 years(started when he was 13). He has helped teardown, sandblast & redo the underside, rebuild all suspension, rebuild engine, strip paint, assemble nose/bumpers, Prep/dye/reinstall interior, nice stereo system, everything done very nicely without getting crazy. Until the last 2-3 months I don't think he could see or believe that this project would ever end. As of today we are down to the "punch list", interior installed, all mechanicals have been finished for a few months-smooth & quiet now that interior is in-he was a happy boy. With a little luck it will be insured & registered this week-just in time for graduation.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 10:41 AM
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Earl Shieb started out advertising "Any car any color $19.95" Thats true check it out. Not a realy bad job eather, at least it looked good for a time. Andy
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Old May 12th, 2009, 11:47 AM
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Ah good old Earl! God, I hated his TV Commercials while he was still alive. "I'm Earl Sheib and I'll paint any car for $19.95." Gravely voiced and wrinkled skin. He'd come on the Screen looking and sounding like a bad combination of a bum, a biker, and a Mafia hit man. Made Mad Man Muntz's outlandish TV commericals look good!

Businesses like Earl Sheib and Macco have one thing in common. Very good at advertising one price which will always turns out to be something greater. Masters of deception. Even to day it continues. While the original $19.95 is long gone there is no possible way to get a car painted even at Sheib for the basic $400 their least expensive re-paint is advertised as being.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 11:53 PM
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ok look I am in the same boat as every one else

I am from Southern California and I will say this I had a gentlemen come over to my house and look at my 1967 cutlass supreme 2door hardtop and mind you I have taken all the chrome and interior out of my car almost all the glass is out except for the front window and the driver side glass i have alot of normale rust issues that all the A bodys have and this man said to re fabricate a whole new front window cowl and fabricate a new rear window cowl replace the floor pans and soda blast the vehicle rework all the metale with a burgandy wine candy paint and a gold pearl with a lacker finish I was looking at $6,786.00 complete spray down and full finish of body and paint so you might want to shop around before you jump in. alot of shops that are classic restoration company charge an arm and a leg cause if you are planning on restoreing a vehicle they assume you have money and there for will charge you as if you do........ find a hole in the wall place and check them out do some research to see who is available and has done this type of work before thats all check out my buid please its under major builds titled
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thanks for your time and GOD BLESS
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 06:56 PM
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I retired some years ago and went to a Comm College to their body shop course for a couple of semesters. I built a 1700' garage at my my house that has a paint booth in it. I have restored probably a dozen cars there over the last 3 years-some mine, some for folks I know. I am doing a '70 Chevelle Malibu now for a friend. We pulled the body from the frame and he is restoring the frame/engine. I am doing the body. We stripped the body. We sent the fenders, doors, hood, trunk, radiator support and inner fenders to a chemical stripper (he paid for this). We sandblasted/painted the bottom and had to do some rust patch repair work on the bottom, front fenders and on the rear window channel. We primed with epoxy and will paint with duPont BC/CC. The work required to get the body/paint really slick is extensive-prime and block at least twice; wet sand final coating with 1200, 2000, 3000 paper and buff. Much work. I am keeping up with the hours. Prob will be 250-300. I am charging $7500. Good thing I like to do it. I will charge more next time for the same type work.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by soldier4christ67oldss View Post
I am from Southern California and I will say this I had a gentlemen come over to my house and look at my 1967 cutlass supreme 2door hardtop and mind you I have taken all the chrome and interior out of my car almost all the glass is out except for the front window and the driver side glass i have alot of normale rust issues that all the A bodys have and this man said to re fabricate a whole new front window cowl and fabricate a new rear window cowl replace the floor pans and soda blast the vehicle rework all the metale with a burgandy wine candy paint and a gold pearl with a lacker finish I was looking at $6,786.00 complete spray down and full finish of body and paint so you might want to shop around before you jump in. alot of shops that are classic restoration company charge an arm and a leg cause if you are planning on restoreing a vehicle they assume you have money and there for will charge you as if you do........ find a hole in the wall place and check them out do some research to see who is available and has done this type of work before thats all check out my buid please its under major builds titled
socal67oldss
thanks for your time and GOD BLESS
I have one thing to say to this...actually two...I wouldn't give him a dime until this job was done(all that work for that price!), and I wonder what the extra $6 was for? His "grand slam breakfast at Denny's"......word of advice, get that in writing!
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bccan View Post
Every person & every shop has their own idea about what a "paint job" is and what "quality" means. If as Allan R points out you just want to buzz it down & shoot it, Maaco is the way to go, I send people there all the time because they can give that person the paint job they are looking for at less than my cost of materials.

Most shops don't want to do restos because they lose their *** on time they don't bill because it is poorly tracked, afraid to have customer stop in a weekly/biweekly/monthly basis to pay bills accrued-extremely traumatic for inexperienced resto customer. Frequently the car gets pushed to a dead bay(not to mention it is killing 2 bays w/ parts off) because they realize too late what they have gotten themselves into or to do collision work. Don't know where you got impression that there is a big profit in insurance work but I wouldn't call a %2-3 percent net lucrative. Shop is doing work @ warranty time for a labor rate appx half of mechanical shops. The "insurance" or collision work is done for cash flow to keep the lights on. Money can be made by cutting corners or in large volume of work but it otherwise takes a very efficient shop to keep their head above water.
AMEN!

Originally Posted by bccan View Post
You may not be able to tell, but I am in the auto body industry.
Me too.

All people see is a lot of money coming in and they don't realize how much it takes to keep the wheels turning. We work in the only industry in the USA in which people as crooked as those that run/regulate the insurance companies can tell us what we are allowed to charge. If we can do repairs at $40 or $42 per hour, aren't the mechanics, media blasters, electricians, tattooers, etc raping us at $75-$150 per hour?? No, the insurance companies are raping the autobody shop owners. A crook is a crook and should be treated as such, but when the insurance companies put the screws on, it's easy for a lot of guys to forget about their ethics and think about the bills that are coming at the end of the month.
So a guy has to either do a huge volume of work, which commonly hurts quality control, or he has to charge a fair price. A price which few are willing to pay. Good restoration guys can make good money, but they have to build a seriously good reputation and once they do, their time is worth more money. It's nice to bump in to someone every now and then who understands how tough we have it. Insurance companies are creating an market that makes big shops bigger while starving the little guys. Some states are finally starting to work on legislation that will begin to help, but a remedy seems to be a long way off. How right does it sound that some of the biggest insurance companies in the country own some of the largest collision repair shop chains in the country?
And yet steering is illegal????

Last edited by ijasond; July 22nd, 2009 at 08:38 PM.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Texascarnut View Post
Ah good old Earl! God, I hated his TV Commercials while he was still alive. "I'm Earl Sheib and I'll paint any car for $19.95." Gravely voiced and wrinkled skin. He'd come on the Screen looking and sounding like a bad combination of a bum, a biker, and a Mafia hit man. Made Mad Man Muntz's outlandish TV commericals look good!

Businesses like Earl Sheib and Macco have one thing in common. Very good at advertising one price which will always turns out to be something greater. Masters of deception. Even to day it continues. While the original $19.95 is long gone there is no possible way to get a car painted even at Sheib for the basic $400 their least expensive re-paint is advertised as being.
I'm not old enough to remember his commercials, but my grandfather worked for him 25 years from the time he got started. So I guess you could say Earl is the reason that my dad and uncles got into the business and subsequently why I got into it. I'm trying to expand my knowledge base so that I can head in a different direction, doing high quality restorations, and I would definitely love to be recognized for excelling in a certain niche(such as Oldsmobiles). I've got a lot of work to do and a boatload(or land yacht load) to learn, but I'm still a young man.

Hearing people talk about Scheib makes me think about my grandfather. He has a thousand funny stories about his expereinces there, some good, some not so good. He ran stores where they painted as many as 65 cars in one day. Now how good could that paint job possibly be??
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ijasond View Post
...So a guy has to either do a huge volume of work, which commonly hurts quality control, or he has to charge a fair price. A price which few are willing to pay. Good restoration guys can make good money, but they have to build a seriously good reputation and once they do, their time is worth more money. It's nice to bump in to someone every now and then who understands how tough we have it. Insurance companies are creating an market that makes big shops bigger while starving the little guys.
Gieco ARX case in point. The idea is to regulate and control where the work goes, with the interest of the insurance co in mind (see$$$), but they make the consumer believe they are getting better service or threaten that if the shop isn't in the network, "we can't warranty the work". Progressive is another culprit...drive up centers, concierge service....the American public is very gullible! Problem is, the bodyshops( at least here in NY) are too busy fighting each other instead of banding together to fight the insurance co's...by the way do you participate in DRP's? I'm sure you do, or you would probably starve! My dream used to be to own a body shop business, now I feel glad I didn't. By the way, if your GPM isn't close to 7%, (and I would hope you know the answer to that, as most shops I deal with love to complain about pricing but don't really know what kind of profit they're making) you need to get a hold or you to will be OOB!
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ent72olds View Post
...by the way do you participate in DRP's? I'm sure you do, or you would probably starve!
Actually, I decided a few years ago that I didn't want to play their game. My last DRP staus was with State Farm and I chose not to renew it. As long as people are making claims and we are fixing their cars, we'll have to play their game to some extent.
We are not starving right now because we still operate based on the system that Scheib developed. We offer affordable paint jobs and do a lot of them. Of course we don't do 65 a day, or even 50 a week like my dad did when I was a kid nor do we do them for $19.95 like my Grandfather did. But if you don't want to buy a new car because in this "terrible economy" you don't know if you'll have a job in 3 months, but you don't want to keep riding in an ugly old car, we fill that niche. We don't over sell anything. If you come in wanting to paint your restoration project, I'm going to send you to the rod shop down the street. But if you don't want to pay $2500 for a basic collision shop paint job on your $1500, 15 year old commuter, we can help.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 09:00 PM
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Ent72Olds, you are in Long Island?
I was up there a couple of years ago and it's one of the few places I've seen a Scheib store still in business in the last 15 years or so.
He had 6 locations here in Atlanta and one morning everyone showed up for work and the doors were all locked up.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 09:09 PM
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Sorry, I didn't realize you were a paint location....do you also do collision work? Yes, I'm in LI, there are a few Macco's left here, but I believe only one Earl location in Brooklyn...
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 09:12 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by Texascarnut View Post
Then you also have to consider a collision repair shop can turn out dozen's of profitable insurance jobs in the overall time and man hours it would take just to do your car.
This is key. You always have to think as a shop owner/manager. How much money could I being making in those two shop bays if your Oldsmobile wasn't scattered all over there? It's usually going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 gross per stall per day. That means that he has to get your car done in two weeks to come close to what he would make doing 30 $1000 jobs in those 2 stalls.
There is much more money to be made on 30 $1000 jobs than on 1 $30,000 dollar job. And a lot less headaches. I wouldn't say that he doesn't want to do it, but if he does, he wants to make sure it's worth his time.

If your car needs a new roof, two new quarter panels, two doors, a hood, two fenders, a trunk lid and some floor pans. $30,000 sounds about right.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ent72olds View Post
do you also do collision work?
We do. You have to. We don't have cars lining up down the street to get those crappy $29 paint jobs like they did back then. we do paint jobs up to about $5000 if we can deliver what the customer wants for that amount. If not, we refer them to someone who specializes in restoration work. Probably about half of what we do is collision related repairs. Mostly customer pay. A lot of people are getting paid on their claim and then shopping around til they find someone who will repair instead of replacing, or use aftermarket or recycled parts instead of OEM. "Can you buff that out a little and just leave it in there?" A lot of money being paid on insurance claim payouts is going straight into the insured's pocket these days. I read the other day that in the collision industry, gross sales are down, yet customer payed repairs are up by 20%.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 09:23 PM
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In most cases, yes! (In reply to ijasond's thread 2 spots back)

Last edited by ent72olds; July 23rd, 2009 at 07:25 AM.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 06:05 AM
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I've skimmed through this thread. There is alot of good info here.

All I know about body work/painting is that I went to a local shop and he said it would be about $4000-$6000 for him to paint my 71 98. That included them removing or taping off the trim, preping the body, and spraying and finishing the paint. I was sort of surprised. This was a reasonable price to me. I saw some of his other work and it was pretty decent. Of course, the car would never sell on Barret Jackson, but it would turn heads at a show and shine.

The only bad thing is that the guy said he would have to have the car in his shop from 6 months to a year. That was surprising. Anyways, I think I am either gonig to spray it myself if I get a compressor and HVLP gun, or prep it and drive it to the city for Macco to spray for about $2500.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Olds64 View Post
or prep it and drive it to the city for Macco to spray for about $2500.
If you check out your local Maaco and ask the right questions, you should be ok. Maaco's reputation is not great, but they are franchises. Some are good, some not so good. Just remember that at any shop, if you do your own prep/body work, they are not going to accept responsibility for any peeling, cracking, etc. later on. And rightly so. If you disassemble it, prep it and all they have to do is a minimal amount of masking and spray it with basecoat clearcoat, you should be fine. You can usually get a professional to do the wetsanding and buffing for $300-$400. You might not want Maaco to do this part.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 09:15 AM
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I just went to a maaco yesterday (one who seems to have a good report from their antique car customers, and I think their work is fair too).
On my cutlass, one dent needs to be popped, a few door dings, rust on the bottom of the doors fixed with metal, and spray it with bc/cc. ~$2500-$3000 Then I need to find a straight rust free hood and decklid, all the seals, and break it down for them. Anything I don't want masked gets taken off by me. So now I'm looking at $5k or so for a maaco job. I'll say, their paint does come out very nice, but I'm afraid of what their body work will come out like.
For my wagon, which only has 2 2" holes in the rockers, and a few dings I was quoted $12k by the body shop who did my dad's t/a. Mind you this is a far above avg car, having 67k miles on it and being garaged since day 1.
$12k includes the dings and rust, and laying paint, I have to find and supply the wood grain though.
My dad had his 60 plymouth done at maaco in 89. Cost $5k then, and they didn't even do it right. All of his NOS body panels were slapped over the rust, the paint is the wrong color big time, and it isn't even the highest quality.
I was quoted $40k to have it redone properly, IF they could salvage the patch panels and reuse them. If not, it could go as high as $60k.
This is for a 60 plymouth savoy 4 door sedan. Never would be worth it, but if I could afford it I'd do it in a heart beat. We've had it since it was new, and we have a long history with this car, from being the family taxi, to being my dad's first car that he put back together. Now look at this, doesn't look to bad right? Remember that's a $40-$60k redo to make it look right.

Bens1960PlymouthAtQuickChekCruiseNi.jpg
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 10:28 AM
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That is a nice MOPAR.

Just remember that at any shop, if you do your own prep/body work, they are not going to accept responsibility for any peeling, cracking, etc. later on. And rightly so.
You mentioned that a shop wouldn't guarantee work if prep work was done before hand. What is the best bet then? I figured I was going to remove all of the trim, bumpers, weatherstripping, etc. before taking the car in. In addition I was thinking of sanding the entire car. Should I let the shop do the sanding? I would hate to have someone spray it and end up getting orange peel.
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