Nighthawk

I am new to this forum and hope I am posting in the right spot. I was recently able to purchase a 1977 cutlass 442 with a 350 v8. It runs but will need a lot of work before it is roadworthy. Before I start working on it I thought it would be best to get some advice from people who are more experienced at restorations than me. Below are a few initial questions I had:

1. This will not be an off the frame restoration because it is on an extreme budget. With that in mind would it be better for me to try to do an origianal restoration or modify it?

2. I will be starting on the underside first and have two questions concerning that:
1. I would like to put an undercoating on it. What should I use?
2. Would it be worthwhile to make it a dually?
(The exhaust system needs replaced anyway and the '77 was not a dually as far as I can tell.)

3. Any idea where the best(as in cheapest) place to get a service manual for this car would be?

Thanks so much I am looking forward to this project a lot!

oldcutlass

Welcome! I would make it what you want it to be. You can undercoat the underside with whatever is available at the autoparts store in aerosol cans, just make sure you clean and degrease the underside first.

Dual exhaust is always way cooler than grandpa single! Try a good muffler shop, thats usually the most economical. first attend some local shows, listen for a tone and sound you like, ask what they have, and duplicate it.

Service manuals are everywhere on the internet. There are many sites to get info on whatever project you want, including here!

I'd start with the safety, and systems repair first, then move on to prettying her up!

droptopron

Congrats & good luck

There is not a lot of aftermkt support for those cars yet to do a correct restoration so if budget is a concern I would not look to do a 100% stock restoration but don't do cheesy modifications that will detract from the value (i.e.bondoed on L88 hood scoop)
Duals are always worthwhile. Check your local ordinances and see if you need to maintain cats on it. If you can source a transmission cross memebr for dual exhaust. I see them pop up on EBay every now & then.

Nighthawk

Here are some pictures of the beast It was origianally red & white but was painted sometime in the past. The floor panels also need patched up because someone did a sloppy patch job. We got it delivered to our house for $700

oldcutlass

Looks to have potential! In High School we used stop signs on the floors.

Ray Hernandez

Ray Hernandez

Try a library for a manual sometimes they might have the one you need , then you can take it back.

Allan R

I don't know that a library will even have anything this old. Besides, I would want my own.

Try these, the prices are right (I included an owners manual in the listings in case you don't have one of those):
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1977-OLDSMOBI...ht_2276wt_1026
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ORGINAL-DEALE...#ht_500wt_1271
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1977-OLDSMOBI...3#ht_572wt_913

Would it be worth making into a dual exhaust? HELL YES! But you'll prolly have to modify the center cross member to make it fit.

And while you're at it, you need to order one of these hoods from VFN. If you want more info on this car, contact Ken Pilidis president@oldsclub.ca He can also tell you how he did his dual exhaust.


For undercoating? Since this isn't going to be a show car, I'd just wire brush the crud off and shoot it with spray undercoating you can buy at any auto store. A serious restorer would frame off, blast and prolly powder coat the frame. It doesn't sound like that's in this car's future though.

Nighthawk

Thanks guys. My computer has been down so I haven't been able to log in recently. I purchased the '77 all series service manual and so far it has been helpful. Things are moving slow but so far I've stripped the interior and am about to get busy on the underside with a wire brush.
Thanks for the tip on that hood. It looks awesome

Intragration

Just a thought, if this is just a rolling restoration on a tight budget, I would be careful about tearing it apart too much. You say you stripped the interior, this seems to be the first thing that a lot of people do, I've done it myself in the past, but I don't know why. If you're not going to presently be reupholstering the whole thing, it doesn't make sense to tear it apart. Same goes for everything else...tear it apart if you have some specific reason for doing so, otherwise leave it alone. I've done rolling restorations and complete restorations, and the best advice I can give is, on a rolling restoration, keep true to this. Do one small component or assembly at a time, and put it back together before moving on. This way you can get the car roadworthy and start enjoying it while you work on it. It's very easy and relatively quick to tear a car completely apart, and before you know it, you're overwhelmed by the project, and what started as a rolling restoration is now a basket case. Just my two cents.

oldcutlass

Mine is a 3 year rolling resto, been playing with it, driving it, playing with it some more. Currently driving it, maybe in the fall I'm going to go through the front end, and possibly try and get a posi in it.

Intragration

Fall is a good time for those bigger projects. I hate tearing into something that's going to take days or weeks in the middle of the on-season. Another thing you've gotta watch out for is the may-as-well or collateral project, when you tear one thing apart, and then it would be stupid to neglect the related thing, but you don't have enough time or cash to do it all. Better to hold off or do a smaller job.

Nighthawk

Thanks for the tip. The only reason I tore the interior out is because there wasn't much there to begin with. It looked like the previous owner had already spent a bit of time tearing out carpet so all I really did was take the seats out

442much

Hello Nighthawk,

Let's be honest. The 73-77's do not bring in the money the 68-72's bring, so doing a full blown restoration is not a good idea UNLESS you absolutely love the car and won't part with it for about 20 years. Otherwise you'll pay $$$$$ for the resto and if you sell it in a few years you'll get $$$.

Now with that said, the good news is, once the car is up to par, you'll get a lot of attention at shows, because these cars are just not seen a lot. Other year Cutlasses and 442's are so loved, that they are everywhere. They dominate, Oldsmobile shows, are in car magazines and because there are so many you find that people are looking for an Olds, these are the yeas most look for.

So, my suggestion for your car is what others he have said. Fix it up while you have fun driving it. You need floors? Here http://www.opgi.com/p/steel-body-pan...6/32P1513.html These are priced fairly and they can start you off on your project.

Allan posted a picture of my car in front of my garage. I've owned that car for 34 years. It was the first car I ever bought. The floors, trunk floor, quarters, doorsand frnders are all original because I never let them deteriorate.

My car came with a dual cross member for the exhaust. I have checked this out and cannot find where this is normal procedure. When I bought the car off the original owner, it had dual exhaust. I know the original owner ordered some extra parts through the dealer but I wasn't told this was one of them. One of the items was the W30 manifold. However I thought is was the aluminum W455 intake. Although the car has the W and Z exhaust, I never thought of that being part of the package. Then again, he could just have easily put it on himself.

Anyway, a good dual exhaust system really lets the car breath. I went with 2.25" but 2.5" would be even better.

I still have my original hood hanging in my garage. The hood I have on now is a VFN hood. It was $500 and fits like a glove. Before you get the hood, I'd focus on appearence. The better you get the car to look, the more you will want to fix the "little" things. If you spend a ton of cash making it fast, the novelity will soon wear off because you won't get the full respect from you crusing buddies because it doesn't look as good as theirs. I know, some say that they don't care what others think, but really, we do.

With these years, you have to make them look good, and then can go for speed. In order of priority you should look at the following first (my opinion)

1. Safe - The car has to be safe if you're going to drive it while fixing it up. (brakes, suspension handling, tires, electrical etc.)
2. Appearence - outside (floors, quarters, doors, fenders, paint)
3. Interior - make it clean and functionable
3. Drivetrain mods (as long as the it passes the safe category)


This is just my opinion. Think about it and form your own. Good luck with the car and welcome to the site.

442much

2.1 I'm not an expert on this coating, however I have seen coating in the auto parts store that could be used.
2.2 Dually's are good. You will need the cross-over
DSC_2518.jpg

2.3 Contact Bill Sandy http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/...feature22.html

Nighthawk

Working on cleaning up the underside, patching floors and interior trim. I used buckskin vinyl dye on the trim and am very happy with the results.
Any one have any idea how to remove the drivers side interior door panel? Using another helpful thread on this forum I got most of it off except I am not sure how to detach the adjustment **** for the side mirror without cutting the wires? The thing doesn't work to begin with so if anyone has any advice on how to fix it that also would be great
After thinking about it a little more I am not quite sure I want to paint the bumpers. I may look for some used ones locally. What other cars have bumpers that would be compatable with mine?

Thanks so much.

Allan R

When you loosen off the door panel, on the backside of the trim plate you will see where the assembly and wires are attached. There is a small allen key screw there that you undo. This will allow the adjustment **** on the inside to slide through the trim plate and out the other side.

Nighthawk

Thanks. Got the panel off

delta70

for the dual exhaust, get a crossmember from a 73 or 74 cutlass,regal,chevelle,or grand prix. those years have the double notched ones. I put one from a 73 cutlass on my 77 442 ran headers and 2.5" pipes with hollywood deep tone mufflers from JC Whitney and it sounded real good. don't know if there still made that was 20 some years ago. still have the car but it needs a total resto.

delta70

nighthawk, do a search for hollywood deep tone mufflers. I just did to see and they still make them. good to know I'll get some for my 70 delta 88 with a 455. there the turbo style not the straight through style.

Nighthawk

Thanks will do a google on that!

Nighthawk

Wow, I haven't been on the forum for a long time
Hoping to piece the interior back together over Christmas break and was having a little trouble with the seat belts. I read one discussion that suggested using Shout to clean the belts and that worked pretty well. However, now I am trying to save the chrome buckles. Anyone have any idea how to clean them up?(They have some rust problems.) I'm not quite sure how to get the chrome gm male buckle cover off in order to clean out the inside.

Intragration

Turtle Wax chrome cleaner works pretty well. The rust starts out just sort of sitting on top of the chrome, if you get it before it starts to pit, you can make it almost like new.

oldcutlass

Soap, water, very fine steel wool will take most minor surface rust off of chrome.

1970supremevert

I realize this is a old post,

http://arrc.ebscohost.com/

try this site for old manuals , this was from my local online library

Nighthawk

Will work on those buckles sometime today. I'll try the soap and water method first...

Nighthawk

I used one of those scratchy soap pads on the belts and it took all the surface rust off. Thanks! Now I have another problem. The male sliding buckle for the middle back seat is, I guess, rusted to the belt and won't slide. Any tips??

oldcutlass

A thorough soaking and try and work it free, a small amount of penetrant. Any oil will transfer to peoples clothes, so use sparingly.

Intragration

After soaking it, you might try some dish soap on it, this might help and would be easier to clean up than an oil.

Nighthawk

Aaarrgh! It ain't budging!!

Allan R

Needs a user ID and password to access

Jeepers, I wouldn't either if I was rusted like that. You might have to disassemble it. They can be taken apart. Or, you could just keep an eye out for them on the web. 1973-1977 belts are fairly common. For the work it will take to fully restore that one, with all due respects I'd just replace it.

Eddie Hansen

Is that suppose to be a roller? Ohhhhh lawdy someone mentioned a solution of vinegar and something else? Oils might stain the material, a caveman might try to clean up the rust with a small brass brush, try to oil it and I would think he would put his foot on it and tug from each end sort of like rocking a froze motor but that thing looks stubborn

oldcutlass

Reminds me of a song, Chuck Berry, about the seat belt that wouldn't budge, lol.

Nighthawk

Allan, I'm not giving up on this quite yet and had been trying to take it apart but I was beginning to think it wasn't made to come apart. Does the cover piece come off? It seems to be on in such a way that it won't come off without bending or breaking.

mike's88

Just caught up with this thread. Since it's not going to be a concourse resto, do like most people do/did, shove that center belt as far down behind the cushion as possible. No one wants to sit on the "hump" anyway. Nice start on the car.

Allan R

Taking apart the seat belt covers was just discussed a short while on the site. I'll take a look and see if I can find it. These do come apart. If nothing else I'll get in touch with someone who can help and they can get you the info.

Nighthawk

Hey, guys got another question. There is a wire that attaches to the drivers side seat belt retractor on the floor. The retractor bolts onto the seat. Any idea what it is? There doesn't appear to be a light or anything.

Nighthawk

Finally, got around to dropping the bumpers off at a local powder coating shop. Very excited about it. Thanks for suggesting it a while back, Allan.

Allan R

Going to take a stab at it being the ground for the seatbelt warning buzzer. The seats have pressure switches in them that are connected to the main harness. Since the retractor is bolted to the seat, it will likely need a proper ground to work right. That's my theory! Unfortunately I don't have a CSM or AM for your model car.

Hope the bumpers turn out the way you hoped!

DennisG.

I'm a little late catching up here. First off, welcome aboard. You stole that car for that price. Personally I think you get more enjoyment out of fixing them up while you're able to drive them. Alot of great info and helpful hints above. Find you the 73-74 crossmember and put duals on it. There's also a website dedicated to the 73-77's.

http://www.73-77olds.com/forums/index.php

Good luck and keep the updates coming.