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I'm trying to get the motor out of my 1964 Dynamic 88, a 394, but I'm kind of stuck. I don't know if I should try to take the engine and trans as a unit, or just pull the engine. How many bolts hold the bell housing to the rear flywheel cover? I count 8, but are the lower 2 on each side also the rear motor mount bolts? It's that cross member that's got me scratching my head, also- my tech manual doesn't say anything about disconnecting the torque converter from the flywheel. The 70's era cars had a dust cover you could remove so you can turn the motor and get to each of the torque converter bolts. My tech guide seems to imply that is no torque converter bolts. It says to remove the transmission, you " move the transmission rearward 1 1/2 inches to disconnect the input shaft from the damper hub." I've got everything disconnected and ready to yank out the motor and I'm now frozen with trepidation. Any advice (words of encouragement?) are appreciated...
I think it's going to be 1) Attach the engine hoist
2) Disconnect the front motor mount
3) Climb in and unbolt the top 2 trans the engine bolts (behind the distributor)
4) Crawl under and reach up to get the bolts on each side of the trans, or maybe support the trans and pull the cross member and rear motor mounts, then unbolt the last 2 bolts
That's where I'm stuck. Any advice? Should I pull them both as a unit and separate the engine and trans once it's out?
Good day today! I started by bottling up all the coolant and motor oil, but the sun was out and it's warm (relatively speaking- it hit the mid 30's) so I felt ambitious. My son helped get the hood off the car. I unbolted the drive shaft and the trans filler tube, removed the front and rear motor mounting bolts and the 4 downward facing cross member bolts (complete pain in the ***). I've already stripped the motor down and loosened the exhaust bolts. I actually was able to turn all the manifold bolts so I'll leave the exhaust manifolds in the car for now- unless I change my mind. There's a block of wood under the tail shaft, and 3 cross member bolts on each side to remove. I'm almost ready to hook up the cherry picker. I figure I'll slide the whole assembly forward a bit so I can reach the trans to motor connecting bolts, then I'll drop the trans down on the jack and lift the engine out the top. I'm so close, very excited. I took some pictures but I can't get them off the GoPro. They're mostly shots of the engine with no alternator, power steering pump, and intake manifold, and a pile of parts. More to come, with pictures next time.
You're defiantly on the right track.
As long as you have the motor supported by the cherry picker and the trans on a jack you will be OK.
You will have to lift that motor HIGH to clear the radiator support.
I don't ever remember having to remove or even loosen the crossmember to pull an engine.
I don't know where that idea came from.
You're defiantly on the right track.
As long as you have the motor supported by the cherry picker and the trans on a jack you will be OK.
You will have to lift that motor HIGH to clear the radiator support.
I don't ever remember having to remove or even loosen the crossmember to pull an engine.
I don't know where that idea came from.
Probably could do it without pulling the trans and cross member, but everything is filthy. It's all coming out so's I can clean it proper-like. Besides, I got all winter and nothing better to do. It'll be fun- or at least, something I've never done before.
I'm hoping someone is here today. I'm ready to pull the motor and I'm worried about where I chose to bolt up the cherry picker. I've removed the intake manifold and I was going to use the 4 bolts- 2 front, 2 rear- that connect the manifold to the heads at the water jacket. I'm worried the metal of the head is only a half inch thick there, and I'm afraid the weight of the motor will crack the head. I've seen people use the carb mount to lift a motor, so maybe I worry for nothing?
I bolted the manifold back on. I figure the intake manifold bolted securely in place will help to distribute the load so there's no chance that one connection point will bear the entire weight of the engine and possibly crack from the stress. But the cherry picker hoisting arm is too short so tomorrow I'll pick up a 5 foot piece of 2.5" square tubing and fabricate a longer upper hoisting arm for my cherry picker. I figure that's a better solution than removing the bumper and grill to get the cherry picker closer.
I bolted the manifold back on. I figure the intake manifold bolted securely in place will help to distribute the load so there's no chance that one connection point will bear the entire weight of the engine and possibly crack from the stress. But the cherry picker hoisting arm is too short so tomorrow I'll pick up a 5 foot piece of 2.5" square tubing and fabricate a longer upper hoisting arm for my cherry picker. I figure that's a better solution than removing the bumper and grill to get the cherry picker closer.
Be sure you have counterweights available. Whats wrong with a chain between a bolt in the front of passenger side head and rear of driver's side ?
Last edited by OLDSter Ralph; January 4th, 2024 at 03:25 PM.
Ever have one of those days when everything just seems to go according to plan? Few and far between I know, but today was that kind of day for me. The steel shop had exactly the piece of square tubing I needed, and only charged $45. I had the right size drill bits to make the holes I needed- and they were sharp! the last bolts were stubborn, and hard to reach, but that was expected. Engine is out!
Good call on the extra long lift arm.
I told you that you were gonna have to lift it high
That front end really jumps up there when you take 730 pounds of iron off from it..
Congratulations.
Ever have one of those days when everything just seems to go according to plan? Few and far between I know, but today was that kind of day for me. The steel shop had exactly the piece of square tubing I needed, and only charged $45. I had the right size drill bits to make the holes I needed- and they were sharp! the last bolts were stubborn, and hard to reach, but that was expected. Engine is out!
Great job, subscribed. You are lucky you have some serious ceiling height in your shop.
That is a serious chunk of metal lol , great job on getting it out , I’d be shitt!ng in my sketchers having to lift an engine that high lol wow , will be following along
That is a serious chunk of metal lol , great job on getting it out , I’d be shitt!ng in my sketchers having to lift an engine that high lol wow , will be following along
Eddie, I picked up a 5 foot piece of steel square tubing for my cherry picker, just so I COULD hoist the engine that high! I hadda fab the hoist to get that 394 outta there
Great job, subscribed. You are lucky you have some serious ceiling height in your shop.
Don- there's a back story. That's my barn, and it used to be for livestock- previous owner. I ripped out the wood floor and poured concrete. I'd say I did it myself, but that would be a lie. I got my wife and teenage son to help me, so "we" did it "ourselves", with 80 lb bags of ready mix. Undercut the walls and poured footings, really went at it to make sure it was built on solid ground.
The roof leaked- so I ripped, repaired, and reshingled the roof. Wife and son didn't help with that one.
Inside there was a loft, more like a 2nd floor. It was full of old hay, had been there for 20 years or more. Squirrels and birds had taken up residence. It was knee deep, 20 feet wide and 24 feet long. And there was a center beam that split the barn in half with posts all along the way, to support it. You might notice the collar ties and strapping looks new compared to the rest of the roof structure. I dug out the hay, tore out the "loft", and rebuilt the roof structure with new collar ties (16 foot 2X8's overlapped to span the 20 foot width). I still need to put up new siding and hang barn doors, but for now, I tarped the opening to keep out the snow.
I had to rebuild the barn so I had a place to work on the car. This has been a project in need of a car for almost a decade. I built 3 motorcycles in there along the way.
If anyone has a kid who wants a bike, I've got an old Honda 700 bobber I built, fabricated lots of parts, it's unlike anything you can find because it's a one off bike I built for the fun of building it. Its for sale if you know someone who might be interested. VT700C, 1984
FYI, you could have used the intake manifold / carb bracket to lift without any problem. I've used that on many engines, including a 500 cubic inch Caddy.
If I wanted to go to a 4 barrel, will an early 50's intake from a 303 fit, or a 371 4 barrel intake? They look the same, and Wiki says the block and heads are the same size. The 394 is just a bigger bore. Anyone here know for sure?
303, 324, 371 (1957-58) are all different than 371 (1959-1960), and 394 (1959-1964). There are differences in the deck height which makes the later 394 intake manifold widest. Don't believe everything you read in Wikipedia.
If I wanted to go to a 4 barrel, will an early 50's intake from a 303 fit, or a 371 4 barrel intake? They look the same, and Wiki says the block and heads are the same size. The 394 is just a bigger bore. Anyone here know for sure?
If you want a four barrel, you will need a manifold from a 59 thru 64 394 engine.
I've hit a bit of a snag. Cleaning the block has left me a bit discouraged, frankly. The amount of filth and grease is almost unmanageable. Following a few suggestions, I tried soaking some parts- mostly nuts, bolts, and fasteners- in diesel fuel. They came out clean, but now soaked with diesel, which still has to be cleaned. And I tried Gunk engine cleaner- it does melt away the grease, but the bucket I used to capture it has over an inch of a greasy, sticky, goo in the bottom of it. And I only cleaned one side of the engine- not the front, or back, just the driver's side. It's much better, it's not thick with crud, but it's still too greasy for paint. If my plan is to clean and paint it, I'm still not there.
Yesterday the temps dropped into the teens and low 20's, so working in the barn became less comfortable than usual. My fingers went numb- a factor of aging I'm afraid. I have a couple fingers that turn white and become painfully numb in very cold weather. My gloves have to be thrown in the trash, as they're soaked in diesel fuel and Gunk and otherwise covered in grease and filth. Even the clothes I wore will probably have to be thrown out. And despite my efforts, the shop floor is filthy now too.
I need to find a better way to do this. I think I'll make a tray out of pine and plywood big enough to completely surround the engine, and put it up on legs so it's right up close. I'll fill it with speedy dry so all the crud is absorbed, and then I can bag it and toss it in the trash. I should consider wearing a disposable coverall too. Considering the trans is at least as bad as the engine and still under the car, as is the cross member and frame rails, I've got to have a better way to manage the toxic filth. And I need a new word for "filth". I hate overusing the same word.
My other big concern is the condition of the engine and the risk of getting grit into the heads, cylinders, or on the crank. I put the oil pan back on for the block cleaning just to protect the belly of the beast, and I've got rags stuffed in the heads and one covering the lifter valley, but I'm so deep into this now I keep going back to thoughts of pulling the heads. If they've been redone recently as I was told by the seller, they should be in good shape and I can simply replace the gaskets and re-install them. I can inspect the cylinders and pistons, and honestly, the engine is still unmanageably heavy. I can't rotate the engine stand with the heads on, so if I want to roll the block over to work on the bottom end, the heads will have to come off anyway. But that's kind of the point of no return- once I pull the heads, there's no turning back. There's a local machine shop that can do the block for me, but the rest of the build is mine unless I can wait until April or May. And there's the $$$ too.
There's a couple inches of snow falling today, I have other chores that demand my time, and I have to go back to work this afternoon. It's probably a good idea to step back from the project, and next time I go into the barn I should work on cleaning things up, storing parts I'll need for the rebuild, and making a little more room to work. I'll probably feel better about things on a sunny day with the door open and the place more organized. Meantime, today feels like a day to make a quick dump run and stop at the market for a couple things, then light a fire in the stove, log on to my work computer, and not think about the Olds until the weekend.
if you can hookup the starter, do a compression test and if it tests good leave the heads on. Pull a main cap far from the oil pump and a rod cap, if the bearings and crank look good check the timing chain and replace if necessary. If all checks out, clean it, paint it, replace the gaskets and freeze plugs and drive on...my $ 0.03 in USD.
if you can hookup the starter, do a compression test and if it tests good leave the heads on. Pull a main cap far from the oil pump and a rod cap, if the bearings and crank look good check the timing chain and replace if necessary. If all checks out, clean it, paint it, replace the gaskets and freeze plugs and drive on...my $ 0.03 in USD.
Sugar Bear, that was my brother's suggestion as well- do a compression test. I thought I might inspect the bearings, and maybe plasti-gauge one or a couple.
I'm just weary from the cleaning, and the cold. I have to work the rest of the week. I'm going skiing this coming weekend. Maybe it'll warm up a bit next week, and maybe the sun will come out. That would brighten my mood substantially.
I got the trans cross member and "slim jim" out yesterday. I find the right side rear motor mount is badly oil soaked and falling apart. Looking for a new pair, but I'm being told the convertible uses different motor mounts from the sedans and coupes. Visually on line, they appear to be the same, but Fusick tells me the GM parts catalog lists different part numbers for the convertible. Can anyone confirm, please explain what's so different about the coupes and sedans motor mounts that they wouldn't work in the convertible?
I got the trans cross member and "slim jim" out yesterday. I find the right side rear motor mount is badly oil soaked and falling apart. Looking for a new pair, but I'm being told the convertible uses different motor mounts from the sedans and coupes. Visually on line, they appear to be the same, but Fusick tells me the GM parts catalog lists different part numbers for the convertible. Can anyone confirm, please explain what's so different about the coupes and sedans motor mounts that they wouldn't work in the convertible?
This is a page out of my 1964 Oldsmobile Chassis parts Catalog.
This is a page out of my 1964 Oldsmobile Chassis parts Catalog.
Thanks Charlie. I got those parts numbers as well- and the guys at Fusick insist that if the part numbers are different, the parts are different. That said, here's the part that came out and the new part- which is the "rear motor(transmission) mount 1964 88 except convertible". You can't tell me these are not the same part. It's not a valve or a cam, it's a friggin' motor mount- 2 pieces of metal embedded in a block of rubber. I doubt the tolerances are so tight that differences can't be observed with the naked eye, or at least a precision measuring device, and I used my caliper to measure the parts several different ways. They're the same in every way I can determine. Since the convertible part numbers are unavailable anywhere, I decided these will have to do the job.
Last edited by davek1661; February 3rd, 2024 at 06:20 PM.
And- how dirty is the transmission out of a 60 year old car? I think the previous owner lived at the end of a long dirt road... and the car has been leaking oil for decades. Just a guess...
The only difference I see in them, is the thickness of the rubber.
I agree, the non convertible mounts should bolt up and work.
Anchor Motor Mounts, in the aftermarket, didn't differentiate between convertible or not,
Heck, they even listed them as fitting a 56 or so Rambler.
The only difference I see in them, is the thickness of the rubber.
I agree, the non convertible mounts should bolt up and work.
Anchor Motor Mounts, in the aftermarket, didn't differentiate between convertible or not,
Heck, they even listed them as fitting a 56 or so Rambler.
Their going to have to do since they're the only ones I can find!
And- how dirty is the transmission out of a 60 year old car? I think the previous owner lived at the end of a long dirt road... and the car has been leaking oil for decades. Just a guess...
Or it could have been a seeping rear main seal.
Rope type seals are notorious for seeping and leaking oil.
If you're going to overhaul the engine, or even pull the pan off, a replacement neoprene seal is a good move.
December 31st, 2023, 10:09 AM
