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rear seat, carpet questions and ideas needed 64 F-85
Guys, need some ideas and help with the interior on my 64 F-85. Just about finished installing Eastwood dyno-mat. Question: do I buy molded to fit carpet with or without mass-backing and jute even though I used dyno-mat? Is ACC a good choice for carpet? I need to get the rear seat foam and upholstery, is their anybody out their that makes a molded rear seat foam with or without bolsters for an F-85-the car is like a Tempest, Chevelle 300, base model cars so I am sure if they listed the parts for a base Chevelle or GTO, Tempest it will work. These rear seats are a little wider because there's no arm rests or ash trays. Thanks.
On the carpet I'd just use their regular priced JUTE-BACKED carpet set. Sure, you could go with the "mass backing" stuff if you wanted further noise reduction but the jute will also provide some of that. Also...the jute provides some "give" or padding in the carpet so anyone with bare feet will feel more like they're in your living room instead of walking on a harder floor (bare carpet over dynamat).
Finally, on the carpet, another disadvantage (and probably the biggest) is a non-backed/bare carpet set will likely not maintain its "integrity"....it'll fold and GET wrinkly too easily. The jute backing will help it lay smoother over time. With no backing at all the carpet is just too flimsy (unless you glued it down which I WOULD NOT DO).
Check w/Legendary on seat covers (as you probably already know theirs are a bit higher quality vs. PUI but higher priced). Both suppliers likely offer an F85 rear seat cover kit (correct width, etc).
Back to the carpet....ACC and Trim Parts are the only two sources and they source the carpet rolls from the same mill so go with whoever has a better price. Check the various repro vendors (end-of-year/XMas sales?) as buying direct from ACC or Trim Parts may actually cost more.
Have you taken the old covers off?? Is there any foam there?? Not sure on these earlier models but some rear seats just used cotton batting on the seat back or seat bottom. Don't know if anyone makes a rear seat foam for your year model....check w/Legendary, etc.
Last edited by 70Post; December 29th, 2018 at 11:28 AM.
Seems like the carpet with the mass-backing layed on top the dynomat may work as well. It looks to be glued to the molded carpet, didn't know if also adding the jute would be overkill? The rear seat still has the original vinyl rear covers on them don't know whats underneath but I bet your right-no foam just a cotton backing. Ill check with both companies today and see what they have. I'm going to use some dynomat inside the door skins but am concerned about water that drains down and loosing the adhesive but I see plenty guys do this and also use sound deadener instead of the normal plastic water shield? Thoughts?
You mean adding jute to a mass-backing carpet set?? Probably doesn't help much and remember, these are MOLDED carpet sets so at some point if you add TOO MUCH material to the underside the carpet set may not "set" right down into the molded areas of the floor pan. Pick one or the other (mass backing OR their traditional jute backed) and go with it.
Are you trying to achieve some sort of "Lexus-like" level of quietness inside the car?? This is a PERFORMANCE car remember......to me I want to HEAR the sounds, not muffle them. Muffled sounds are for everyday cars.....why make the car too much like an everyday modern car? JUST MY OPINION and not looking to pick at any cars.
The plastic water shields should be used NO MATTER WHAT ELSE you use....they serve a different purpose...to keep humidity/moisture off the backside of the door panel. Without them, you risk warping the door panel board over time. Too thin too cut out a lot of noise but that wasn't/isn't their purpose anyway.
I assume the ability of the mat to stick to a vertical surface depends A LOT on how clean or smooth that surface is. If it's super clean and smooth I guess it should stay in place as their adhesive on that stuff is pretty mean and sticky from the small amount of experience I've had with it. Only time will tell if it will stay in place. On a rough surface (ie - any factory applied rougher stuff on the backside of the door skin) and it's a dice roll to me.
As far as water on the backside of the door skin...the water would have to get to the EDGE of the mat to have any POSSIBLE effect. If you can get the edge of the mat tucked WAY UP THERE then any water getting inside/dripping down may happen BELOW the upper edge. The water sure as heck isn't going to affect the mat if it hits the mat BELOW the edge......the mat is waterproof....foil top and and the black part is impermeable.
There used to be some exotic company that made a bunch of these materials for sound and heat deadening and they had one version meant to be used under the door panel in place of the moisture barrier. Supposedly was a noise barrier and maybe just a thinner, more flexible version of this type stuff. I may have their brochure here (will look but may have tossed it years ago and who knows if the place is still in business).
You'll have to look at your seat BOTTOM and UPRIGHT to determine foam useage. On '70-2 cars they typically had a molded foam on the rear seat BOTTOM but just used layers of cotton batting on the seat BACK (ie - upright). Not sure on earlier cars and who knows, it may have varied by the model as well.
Last edited by 70Post; December 29th, 2018 at 12:03 PM.
Thanks so much for all the info Patton. What I may do is use some leftover dyno-mat ,put some pieces on the door skin well above the bottom of the door. I always clean clean and clean the surface well with a rag soaked in denatured alcohol. From what I have read you only need about 20% coverage and when you shut the door it sounds solid, no more tin type hollow sound. As far as the inside door I'll install the plastic water shields. Question: any particular adhesive? I was going to use some left over 3M spray?
I have also used on the roof before the headliner was installed: Frost King Duct Insulation. Self Adhesive and foam 1/8 inch thick. MUCH cheaper than Dyno-mat. Im going to use that on the floor under the rear seat and cover the trunk divider and package tray. In years past, I may have met you a few times at the North Texas Zone meets? Lance Hall is a good friend of mine too, I think you know Lance? The stripe dimensions were taken from the 65 442 option dealer installed vinyl stripe and painted on. But on this job it included running the stripe on the metal part of the dash and the rear deck inside the car. I also have one of your mats on top the gas tank on this car...
On the "coverage" for a sound deadening piece inside a panel skin - newer cars do what you mention - stick on an approx 1' square piece of the material and it cuts down or eliminates the tinny/"drumming" sound of that panel. For example, my '95 Toyo truck (extended cab) has small pieces stuck onto the backside of the rear side metal back in the extended cab area. You'll see this on most newer car panels. Noise reduction won't be the same as more fully covering the backside of the panel but you'll remove some of the "tinny" sound. In the body shop industry they always mention "Q Pads"....this is a brand name that's used to generally describe these pads....they typically come in a package of 4 or 6 one square foot pieces.
For the water shields I'd do what the factory did......just use black, etc strip chaulk pieces around the perimeter of the plastic shield to stick it to the door shell. Biggest reason is if you ever need access into the inside of the door shell you can remove the water shield easily and then stick it back in place easily. Glue would be a mess compared to the strip chaulk method.
On the roof I've used something similar....it WAS called "EZ Cool" (sold by some outfit here in TX) but their website says they've closed. Fortunately they have someone else selling it. Seems reasonably priced and when I'd get it from the outfit in Tx they'd just slap a label on the clear bag the roll was in and ship it (USPostal and reasonable cost for shipping). Not sure if that's still the case on shipping but worth checking into if you need more of this type material. VERY easy to install and even without any adhesive b/n the EZ Cool and the floor it laid down and conformed well (you use foil backed tape to cover the seams on the top....just buy that at Lowe's etc....no need to buy theirs and pay more shipping). Comes in 4' wide rolls of various lengths so the coverage, per linear foot of the roll is nice compared to narrower stuff like the 1' wide material you show. I believe this stuff has foil on BOTH sides which may help further on heat rejection. Here's their site:
Strip caulk is the way to go as far as the water shields.
I may pattern the water shields with Frost King and then put the water shields over the Frost King? However, there could be possibly an issue getting the door panels on due to the 1/8 thickness of the Frost King product Maybe not, because it should contour into the form of the interior door skin? I'll try 1 and go from there. Bottom line is, I'm more concerned about keeping the interior cool in our 100 plus degree heat here in Texas on a cruise than blocking out some great sounding 60-70's muscle car sound.. This F-85 has an Old Air Products A/C system from Fort Worth. As with most Old-Old's this was not a plug and play install. Again, many thanks for your input.
What's your exhaust setup??....in particular....manifolds OR headers? If headers, and in your case with the car having custom mods, a possible "heat blocking" idea would be to fabricate some aluminum panels/shields that would cover the top (or maybe top and both vertical sides) of the header collectors and as much of the 4 pipes running horizontally before the headers. Then I'd apply some of the woven fiberglass mat/foil covered thin material to the header side of the shields and fab brackets/mounts that would locate these custom heat shields about 1/4" or so off the header surface.
The best solution to heat management (and noise for that matter), at least in my mind, is to block as much of it as possible BEFORE the heat gets to any interior metal panels (where it soaks into and heats the panel....ie-floorboard, etc). Reject the heat UNDER the floorpans and the moving air will carry it away. Once absorbed into a panel then it becomes much harder to block it efficiently.
This has limits of course.....you can't really cover the roof of the car with a shading device (unless you want the car to look REAL wierd) but so much heat is from the engine, trans tunnel and underside it makes sense to "attack" those areas where feasibly possible. That's also some of the "theory" behind the Jet Hot type coatings but the heat emanating from teh exhaust is still very high.
As far as Frost King behind the door panels....why not?....I assume it will compress where it needs to and would definitely add some insulation from both heat and sound at the doors.
I assume you're going to cover the inside of the firewall w/the "dynamat" type stuff.......that's a massive source of heat and in "a perfect world" you'd have it ALL covered up as far up as possible.
I guess the ultimate "stealth" insulated Olds would have a "second firewall" applied on the engine compartment side with an air gap b/n it and the existing original firewall.....with a layer of the thin woven fiberglass/foil heat shield in between the two walls!!! But that would require a front clip and engine removal and probably a ridiculous amount of time.
Forgot to reply earlier...yes, I believe we talked at the regional meet in Granbury a few years back....whichever meet was at the hotel near a lake. Lance Hall???? Never heard of him but he sounds like a suspicious character...... I've heard rumors of some crazy pilot with a really slick red 5 speed '71 442 up in your area. That might be the guy!!
Headers, 3 inch mandrel exhaust. Exhaust is overkill for the 400E until the 425 is built. I ll go through up underneath the dash one last time with some more small pieces of left over dynomat or Frost King. I think with the dynomat and a mass backed carpet the floor should be okay. 35tac that a good example of how the water shields should be installed. Patten, if I need to pull the and service the trans or just take it out when the 425 is built your idea is a good one-I'll cover the trans tunnel with Frost King. There is a factory molded fiber glass-alumium trans tunnel insulator on my 63 Corvette.
That sounds good....the trans tunnel has got to be a major heat trap. The "stand off" heat shields on top of (or on 3 sides) of the collectors would probably reflect a lot of heat away from the floor as well. Easier to design and mock up with the lift you have instead of with jackstands, etc.
December 28th, 2018, 07:29 AM
