70 442 Sail Panels
December 11th, 2016, 01:01 PM
#1
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70 442 Sail Panels
Started looking at my interior pieces that I purchased at Legendary a couple of years ago. I learned from another thread that the sail panels are installed over a sound deadening back board. Picture # 3 apparently is the correct boards. The interior on my car when I bought it was for the most part completely missing.. I was curious if any of you have installed these pieces and if you have could you share any installation tips, pics etc. Also would like to know if I have everything needed for the sail panel area in Pics. 1 and 2
December 11th, 2016, 02:29 PM
#2
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I'm not used to seeing anything with holes in the pattern of your third picture. But I am used to seeing a fiberboard kind of cardboard that the material is attached to. I'm sure I've got some old sail panels in the garage somewhere. If I can come up with a factory one I'll post a couple photos
John
John
December 11th, 2016, 02:49 PM
#3
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Yes the sail panel pieces you show are the correct shape as the orig. but lack the originals thickness.( i have used them more than a few times) One other fairly important item is the original sail panels had a clip that was attached to the cardboard and then pushed into a hole on the metal body itself. This clip did a great job to hold the upholstered panel tight to the body. otherwise it will be loose and the only thing holding it is the edge moldings. This clip is tough to find.
I make up my own push in clip using push in body molding clips. Glued to the back of the panel.
I make up my own push in clip using push in body molding clips. Glued to the back of the panel.
December 11th, 2016, 09:03 PM
#4
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'70 - 2 sail panels don't use any traditional style clips for retention.....maybe the pics below will help. These show the original behind-the-sailpanel insulation board placement on a '70 W31....never been removed.
>PIC 1 - Blue arrows show a couple things....at the top/L you can see where the black insulation board is tucked UNDER the edge of the screwed-on headliner metal glue edge piece (which is held on with screws - I'll try to post another pic showing that
-Another blue arrow shows where a tab on the black board is folded over into the hole in the body metal to help "hang' the black board
-Yellow circled area IS THE SAIL PANEL RETENTION CLIP...or better said...ONE HALF of the sail panel retention clip. It's a sort of harder plastic version of Velcro and on the back of the original sail panels the factory glued on another square "clip" with the same raised dots/spikes that push into the raised dots/spikes on the black square piece. Your replacement sail panels may be missing these. Get some good used ones from Oldspackrat, etc. (4 pieces total - that would be for BOTH sailpanels).
>PIC 2 - This is a closer pic showing the folded-over-the-edge part of the black board....this squarish hole in the interior body metal is down towards the package tray corner area
>PIC 3 & 4 - #3 shows the overall backside of an original sailpanel from the same car and #4 shows a closeup of the plastic "velcro" square that the factory attached to the sail panel using real small staples.
>PIC 1 - Blue arrows show a couple things....at the top/L you can see where the black insulation board is tucked UNDER the edge of the screwed-on headliner metal glue edge piece (which is held on with screws - I'll try to post another pic showing that
-Another blue arrow shows where a tab on the black board is folded over into the hole in the body metal to help "hang' the black board
-Yellow circled area IS THE SAIL PANEL RETENTION CLIP...or better said...ONE HALF of the sail panel retention clip. It's a sort of harder plastic version of Velcro and on the back of the original sail panels the factory glued on another square "clip" with the same raised dots/spikes that push into the raised dots/spikes on the black square piece. Your replacement sail panels may be missing these. Get some good used ones from Oldspackrat, etc. (4 pieces total - that would be for BOTH sailpanels).
>PIC 2 - This is a closer pic showing the folded-over-the-edge part of the black board....this squarish hole in the interior body metal is down towards the package tray corner area
>PIC 3 & 4 - #3 shows the overall backside of an original sailpanel from the same car and #4 shows a closeup of the plastic "velcro" square that the factory attached to the sail panel using real small staples.
Last edited by 70Post; December 12th, 2016 at 10:58 AM.
December 12th, 2016, 09:52 AM
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I went back and added additional "emphasis" to my PIC #1 and reposted it below....
>White outlines/arrows - I realized after looking at the pic some more there appear to be TWO ADDITIONAL spots where the factory jammed/tucked the black board under something to help keep it in place....
-Upper area shows where it's tucked under the metal headliner tack/glue strip....this is a different metal strip from the one in my PIC#1 above
- I'll check this closer but it looks like they also slid the black board UNDER the end of this metal tab
>Orange square outline - This shows the original chrome screw in the hole it uses to hold the rear "door" panel board in place where it travels down/over the package tray. NOTE this screw has a chrome cupped washer as well to keep it from digging into the panel vinyl. Make sure you have all the correct style screws for the various interior pieces and just ask if you aren't sure what's correct for any given location/part.
Other - Note the sprayed glue all over the place - looks like the factory applied glue to the metal strip running down the side of the rear glass to help hold the sail panel in place AND they also hosed down some of the body metal BEHIND the black board to help hold it in place.
If you are applying any sort of upholstery adhesive when doing your work it should be applied to BOTH surfaces and then allowed to tack up before pressing everything into place....read the instructions on whatever glue you're using and pay attention to air temps if you are working in a cold area.
>White outlines/arrows - I realized after looking at the pic some more there appear to be TWO ADDITIONAL spots where the factory jammed/tucked the black board under something to help keep it in place....
-Upper area shows where it's tucked under the metal headliner tack/glue strip....this is a different metal strip from the one in my PIC#1 above
- I'll check this closer but it looks like they also slid the black board UNDER the end of this metal tab
>Orange square outline - This shows the original chrome screw in the hole it uses to hold the rear "door" panel board in place where it travels down/over the package tray. NOTE this screw has a chrome cupped washer as well to keep it from digging into the panel vinyl. Make sure you have all the correct style screws for the various interior pieces and just ask if you aren't sure what's correct for any given location/part.
Other - Note the sprayed glue all over the place - looks like the factory applied glue to the metal strip running down the side of the rear glass to help hold the sail panel in place AND they also hosed down some of the body metal BEHIND the black board to help hold it in place.
If you are applying any sort of upholstery adhesive when doing your work it should be applied to BOTH surfaces and then allowed to tack up before pressing everything into place....read the instructions on whatever glue you're using and pay attention to air temps if you are working in a cold area.
Last edited by 70Post; December 12th, 2016 at 09:56 AM.
December 12th, 2016, 10:13 AM
#7
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Yes the sail panel pieces you show are the correct shape as the orig. but lack the originals thickness.( i have used them more than a few times) One other fairly important item is the original sail panels had a clip that was attached to the cardboard and then pushed into a hole on the metal body itself. This clip did a great job to hold the upholstered panel tight to the body. otherwise it will be loose and the only thing holding it is the edge moldings. This clip is tough to find.
I make up my own push in clip using push in body molding clips. Glued to the back of the panel.
I make up my own push in clip using push in body molding clips. Glued to the back of the panel.
Thanks for the feedback. Was the clip in addition to the "Velcro like" square fasteners on the sail panels?
I went back and added additional "emphasis" to my PIC #1 and reposted it below....
>White outlines/arrows - I realized after looking at the pic some more there appear to be TWO ADDITIONAL spots where the factory jammed/tucked the black board under something to help keep it in place....
-Upper area shows where it's tucked under the metal headliner tack/glue strip....this is a different metal strip from the one in my PIC#1 above
- I'll check this closer but it looks like they also slid the black board UNDER the end of this metal tab
>Orange square outline - This shows the original chrome screw in the hole it uses to hold the rear "door" panel board in place where it travels down/over the package tray. NOTE this screw has a chrome cupped washer as well to keep it from digging into the panel vinyl. Make sure you have all the correct style screws for the various interior pieces and just ask if you aren't sure what's correct for any given location/part.
Other - Note the sprayed glue all over the place - looks like the factory applied glue to the metal strip running down the side of the rear glass to help hold the sail panel in place AND they also hosed down some of the body metal BEHIND the black board to help hold it in place.
If you are applying any sort of upholstery adhesive when doing your work it should be applied to BOTH surfaces and then allowed to tack up before pressing everything into place....read the instructions on whatever glue you're using and pay attention to air temps if you are working in a cold area.
>White outlines/arrows - I realized after looking at the pic some more there appear to be TWO ADDITIONAL spots where the factory jammed/tucked the black board under something to help keep it in place....
-Upper area shows where it's tucked under the metal headliner tack/glue strip....this is a different metal strip from the one in my PIC#1 above
- I'll check this closer but it looks like they also slid the black board UNDER the end of this metal tab
>Orange square outline - This shows the original chrome screw in the hole it uses to hold the rear "door" panel board in place where it travels down/over the package tray. NOTE this screw has a chrome cupped washer as well to keep it from digging into the panel vinyl. Make sure you have all the correct style screws for the various interior pieces and just ask if you aren't sure what's correct for any given location/part.
Other - Note the sprayed glue all over the place - looks like the factory applied glue to the metal strip running down the side of the rear glass to help hold the sail panel in place AND they also hosed down some of the body metal BEHIND the black board to help hold it in place.
If you are applying any sort of upholstery adhesive when doing your work it should be applied to BOTH surfaces and then allowed to tack up before pressing everything into place....read the instructions on whatever glue you're using and pay attention to air temps if you are working in a cold area.
As usual, you are providing very good info here and it is very much appreciated. I will digest all of it fully this evening when I have some time. I do have a quick question. Have you ever used the sail panel backing that INT offers or do you know if it is the right thickness etc?
December 12th, 2016, 11:05 AM
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Rick - Who is "INT"??? Do you mean Inline Tube?
I've never used any from Inline Tube. Have only had experience with a set from PUI that were already installed in a customer's car (70 442 hardtop). Had to redo a terribly-done headliner job/sail panel job as part of the work on that car.
Got a new headliner from Fusick I believe (PUI) and it fit great. The previously-recovered sailpanels were a mess. The brown board, I'm pretty sure, had some sort of coating on the backside that fought against the glue adhering very well. Don't know if Legendary's sailpanel backer boards are any better or not.
EDIT: Sorry about that Rick---I didn't read your last post correctly and I now see you are referring to the ILT black insulator pieces. NO....I've never tried them but they are probably the same material as anything most others sell and likely a bit more accurate compared to some vendors. Look at the backside of them if possible and see what kind of surface it is. If it has a tar type or wax like coating on the backside then that finish is going to fight against any decent glue adhesion.
At that point I'd make sure they are cut to at least allow you to tuck them in/under the various metal strips and holes I show in my first pic...otherwise they may just fall out and push on the backside of the sail panels.
The factory pieces are fairly crude if you think about it.....sort of half *** coverage of the body metal, etc up there. Maybe knocked out a little noise but not a great sound barrier due to less-than-complete coverage of ALL the metal and various holes in the body metal up there.
Finally, if you're doing this in real cold weather you may want to heat those black boards up a bit before trying to fold edges over, etc (hair dryer or heat gun)......they might crack or break if done in real cold weather.
I've never used any from Inline Tube. Have only had experience with a set from PUI that were already installed in a customer's car (70 442 hardtop). Had to redo a terribly-done headliner job/sail panel job as part of the work on that car.
Got a new headliner from Fusick I believe (PUI) and it fit great. The previously-recovered sailpanels were a mess. The brown board, I'm pretty sure, had some sort of coating on the backside that fought against the glue adhering very well. Don't know if Legendary's sailpanel backer boards are any better or not.
EDIT: Sorry about that Rick---I didn't read your last post correctly and I now see you are referring to the ILT black insulator pieces. NO....I've never tried them but they are probably the same material as anything most others sell and likely a bit more accurate compared to some vendors. Look at the backside of them if possible and see what kind of surface it is. If it has a tar type or wax like coating on the backside then that finish is going to fight against any decent glue adhesion.
At that point I'd make sure they are cut to at least allow you to tuck them in/under the various metal strips and holes I show in my first pic...otherwise they may just fall out and push on the backside of the sail panels.
The factory pieces are fairly crude if you think about it.....sort of half *** coverage of the body metal, etc up there. Maybe knocked out a little noise but not a great sound barrier due to less-than-complete coverage of ALL the metal and various holes in the body metal up there.
Finally, if you're doing this in real cold weather you may want to heat those black boards up a bit before trying to fold edges over, etc (hair dryer or heat gun)......they might crack or break if done in real cold weather.
Last edited by 70Post; December 12th, 2016 at 11:15 AM.
December 12th, 2016, 11:16 AM
#9
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yes, Inline Tube.
When you say "sail panel backer boards" are you referring to the boards that I currently have with the vinyl attached (pic # 3 in permalink # 1)or are you referring to the ILT insulation board behind the sail panel backer board (Pic # 3)?
When you say "sail panel backer boards" are you referring to the boards that I currently have with the vinyl attached (pic # 3 in permalink # 1)or are you referring to the ILT insulation board behind the sail panel backer board (Pic # 3)?
December 12th, 2016, 01:06 PM
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"Sail panel backer boards" = the sail panels themselves (boards with vinyl material attached)...sorry, that could be misinterpreted.
We'll just refer to these as the "sail panels" from now on.
"Black boards" = the ILT "insulator board" parts you show a pic of from their catalog - the sound deadener material pieces that are mounted to the body metal underneath the sail panels.
Thanks
Also - Looking at your first pic above.....I see what looks like some sort of squarish piece attached to the backside of your new sail panels. Are those the "plastic Velcro" squares?? Something else??
We'll just refer to these as the "sail panels" from now on.
"Black boards" = the ILT "insulator board" parts you show a pic of from their catalog - the sound deadener material pieces that are mounted to the body metal underneath the sail panels.
Thanks
Also - Looking at your first pic above.....I see what looks like some sort of squarish piece attached to the backside of your new sail panels. Are those the "plastic Velcro" squares?? Something else??
Last edited by 70Post; December 12th, 2016 at 01:14 PM.
December 12th, 2016, 01:13 PM
#11
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"Sail panel backer boards" = the sail panels themselves (boards with vinyl material attached)...sorry, that could be misinterpreted.
We'll just refer to these as the "sail panels" from now on.
"Black boards" = the ILT "insulator board" parts you got - the sound deadener material pieces that are mounted to the body metal underneath the sail panels.
Thanks
We'll just refer to these as the "sail panels" from now on.
"Black boards" = the ILT "insulator board" parts you got - the sound deadener material pieces that are mounted to the body metal underneath the sail panels.
Thanks
December 12th, 2016, 05:40 PM
#12
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I can't install headliners but just an FYI that my headliner guy does. He don't like the plastic "Velcro" and uses glue but not sure what kind of glue. Where the vlecro goes he uses an adjustable shower curtain rod between the panel and the other side of the car to push in the panel till the glue cures. I would rather he use the original setup but he said he has problems with using them with the repop sail panels.
December 12th, 2016, 06:17 PM
#13
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I can't install headliners but just an FYI that my headliner guy does. He don't like the plastic "Velcro" and uses glue but not sure what kind of glue. Where the vlecro goes he uses an adjustable shower curtain rod between the panel and the other side of the car to push in the panel till the glue cures. I would rather he use the original setup but he said he has problems with using them with the repop sail panels.
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