mcleczi

Hi, this is my first post but I have owned a 67 Cutlass Supreme for a little over a year now (I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post this because I saw a few areas where I thought it could go).

I am posting because I recently I got an estimate to have floor pans welded.

It would include both front pans but the guy said it would cost $1000 "give or take". The real problem I have with that it is with me doing all the prep work (cutting, shaping, sanding), all they are doing is the actual welding...

I thought this was outrageous for what I heard is a small job. Am I wrong? I was totally shocked when I heard $1000.

mcleczi

PS, I also already bought the replacement pans.

Professur

There's usually quite a bit of fitting and straightening when it comes to repop floor pans. You've also cut into his profit potential by buying the pans instead of letting him buy them at his discount and marking them up. BUT!!! for $1000, you could easily pick up an eastwood welder, a tank of gas and do it yourself ... and have quite a bit of pocket change left over. If you're already doing the cleaning and cutting ... why give the rest to someone else?

joe_padavano

X2. Floor pan replacement is a great place to learn sheet metal welding, because all your mistakes are covered by the carpet. You'll need a spot weld cutter also to separate the floor pans from the braces.

Convertcrazed

I cutout the old, cleaned, bought new pans (Ames), cut them to fit, bought Lincoln welder from HD and welded everything in a couple of take my time weekends First sheet metal welding in 30 yrs......all for about 1k and I still have a barely used welder that I've used several times since for small fixes......I enjoyed the process
Pics on my build thead
Just my 2cents


Eric M

Oldsmaniac

The price seems high but we dont know the extent of the floor rot. Anyone with general sense and knowledge can weld in new metal. You are half way there already with the new parts. A mig welder makes things easy and the skill can be self learned in no time. Too much heat and you blow thru metal. Too little heat the weld doesnt penetrate and just globs on the surface. You will need an angle grinder to smooth some of the welds and the welder with shielding gas attachment (recommended). I also use the thin cutoff discs on the angle grinder for trimming metal and cutting out the old rotted stuff.

mcleczi

Thanks all for the solutions. I just typed up a long response and then lost it when I had to re-login. Long story short... Buying a welder is a great idea and I am going to seriously consider it. Before I go out and buy one, I am going to shop around a little more for quotes just so I can be sure of the correct path.

Thanks again and any other tips are greatly appreciated!

I'm sure I will be posting more in the future as the car (and I) need help haha.

mcleczi

I did actually already buy all the cutoff disks and sanding disks, I just haven't gotten around to doing the work yet. Hopefully will be able to decide on a solution and start this weekend!

therobski

What these guys are saying is what I did. Bought a Millermatic 180 welder and learned how myself for about what it would have cost to have it done. Now I own the equipment and learned a great deal. Seam sealer and carpetYou should have seen my floors! I needed all new braces including the trunk braces and trunk pan. Between the tail lights I had to get a center section from a more door and weld that in, new rear deck pan etc. You can do it, the guys in this Club is a great resource. Parts become cheap when you supply the labor. Few images from my thread under major projects

joe_padavano

I would buy a good used brand name welder (Miller or Lincoln) before I got a Chinesium Eastwood unit.

Well, actually, I DID do that. Got a Lincoln 130 MIG for $300. Just right for automotive sheet metal work.

mcleczi

So am I correct in assuming that I should be using a mig welder because it is easier?

Would either of these work? I am totally new to welding.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...10e-mig-welder

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Campbell-...01AV/202754695

joe_padavano

You don't say where you're located, but good used Miller and Lincoln units are always on Craigslist. You want a 110V unit that is at least 130 amps and that comes with the gas valve, regulator, and hose. Here are a couple that came up in a quick search.

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/5091713059.html

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/tls/5088119562.html

RandyS

The first one, definitely not, second one probably O.K.. You want your power settings and wire feed speed to be fully adjustable.

P.S. @Joe, I have the Eastwood 135 and I love it! Just sayin........

joe_padavano

Until you need parts...

VI Cutty

I would suggest going for one with the gas (ie argon) setup vice using a flux core wire machine.

joe_padavano

That's the ONLY way to do it. "MIG" stands for Metal Inert Gas. Flux core isn't exactly MIG welding, it's just a wire feed arc welder.

chadman

Buy a Hobart Handler 140 at TSC. Great welder with readily available parts.

mcleczi

I am located in western NY and have been searching Craigslist today. I found a couple more that are better than what I posted and they cost around $300. Sounds fair for what they cost new.

I am also still looking for someone local that knows how to weld and can help me out. I do want to learn how to weld so that could help me. I have some possible leads so far but nothing set in stone. Again, I hope to have this done this weekend! Thanks all for your advice!!!

RROLDSX

YouTube is your friend. There are many professionally done welding instructional video sites. Don't expect to get such a big job done so quick first time out. Not saying it can't be done but learn to walk before you run. I learned how to Tig weld off Mr. Tig and Weldmonger.com.

joe_padavano

X2. Cut sections from old body panels and weld them together both for practice and to dial in the right settings on the welder. Use 0.023" wire for body panels. Be sure to get the surfaces to be welded completely clean and free of rust and paint on both sides. Use weld-through primer on areas that will be enclosed after welding (overlaps and floor braces, for example). Take your time and don't be discouraged by blow-throughs as you learn.

therobski

X3 on what Joe mentioned, I practiced on old car metal myself. I still cannot "stack" pennies" welding but I got pretty good considering I don't do this all the time. I could not locate a real good 64 F-85 front door pass side window sash channel so cut two up to make one good one. ( that's the part that your door glass sets in) Next week I'm going over to my buddy's and he's going to show me how to "TIG" the pieces together. To me TIG welding is an art all by itself. Beautiful stuff.

mcleczi

I should put the primer on after it is welded though, correct? also.. what is weld-through primer?

Yeah I will for sure be using YouTube haha, that and these forums have saved me in most of my problems (Even just reading old posts).

joe_padavano

You can't get to an enclosed area to prime after welding. Weld-through primer has copper or silver particles in it to make it conductive. You can spray it before welding and still successfully weld, though usually it is used on the backside of panels that are inaccessible. For example, if you were replicating factory spot welds on a lap joint, you would spray the weld-through on the faces of the flanges that are clamped together, preventing rust from forming between them later, but still providing enough conductivity to get a spot weld.

Troys Toy 70

Here is my first attempt. Holbert 140. Sometimes, you need to get a little creative if the parts don't quite line up. A couple of relief cuts and stitch them back together. I got decent at stitching because of all the blow throughs I created while welding the panel in.

I'm definately a novice novice welder, learning as I go.

joe_padavano

Pretty darn good for a first attempt. One trick I've found is that if you do have a blow through, grind the weld beads down flush before attempting to plug the hole. The added thickness will take longer to heat and require more current, leading to a bigger mess. Also try a copper backup paddle under the hole when you plug weld. I just flattened an old piece of copper pipe, rather than paying for the Eastwood tools (although their copper plate with magnets could be very useful...).

RandyS

You can get one of the copper welding spoons with a handle at Harbor Freight for under $10.00,

Troys Toy 70

Thanks for your kind words Joe. You can see my "goose poop" welds down the hump, where I first started. By the time, I arrived at the corner displayed, I figured out the process you discribbed above. No copper backing though. Magnetic holders would have been good to have.

Professur

One of the biggest reasons for blow through in replacing floor pans is that, while you cleaned off the surface rust, the floor you're welding the new pan to is still thinner than the rest. This can be because the metal was stretched thin when it was formed, or it was just more eaten by rust than you suspected. Checking the edge thickness with a caliper before you start will show thin spots and you can anticipate the blow through and work to prevent it. Welding in pans is usually butt welding, not lap ... but both exist. I prefer to butt weld. How I was taught was to jump about doing tack welds. That keeps the metal from heating too much in one area and warping. You'll never get a 'row of dimes' doing that, so don't waste your time trying for it. That's why a cheaper welder can be acceptable for this. Naturally, if you can afford a better welder and will make use of it, you should always buy the best tool you can ... but I never spent a lot of time fiddling with the settings of my Lincoln SP-170t to get the job done. I definitely agree with tracking down some weld through primer for any lap joints. You also want to get some seam sealer for those spots. Eastwood also has this nifty can of spray paint that comes with a hose for spraying inside frame rails to rust proof them. If you can find something like that, you can back fill floor braces. One thing you never want is to leave a something like a brace without a drain hole. Water WILL always find a way in ... make sure you leave it a way back out.

Bernhard

Weld through primer yes
spot weld cutter yes
Copy factory seams - spot weld were the factory spot welded,lap joint were the factory lap jointed and but joint for a seamless floor were required.
Prep the area by removing rust by sandblasting prefer d method
Prep by grinding,sanding,wire brush to bare rust free surface, caution lead paint or lead solder.
Take your time and fit the panel carefully, make temp lets from heavy card board project paper, if you have replacement panels you can use them also to help guild you.
If you are new to welding take a night school coarse
Practice practice practice
when you have required feel and built skill your ready to produced a quality repair.
Save and buy a quality mig like others have posted Miller,Lincoln,Hobart
Clean up the weld with a light touch of the grinder, the better you weld the less clean up there is.
prime the area when completed
Replace seam sealer if so equipped from the factory
If the welds are not perfect seam seal the entire joint
I use mig gloves for all welding styles they give a much better feel, try all the brands and find the ones that best suite you.
Always practice safety, well vented area, respirator,dust mask,eye protection,appropriate clothing .
Buy the best welding helmet you can afford.
Old cars are painted with lead paint and have lead solder so use best practices when removing.