According to the 1970 Dealer Order Sheet, the T-44 hood lock was not available with the W-25 OAI hood. Is this correct? I could not find any documentation that contradicts this restriction.


Also, has anyone ever come across a documented '70 W-30 with factory front drum brakes? According to the 1970 Dealer Order Sheet, there was a delete option for the disc brakes.

 

What's the date on that Dealer Order sheet? I've never seen that restriction on T44 before.

I share your quest for a '70 W-30 with factory front drums. But I doubt any were ever made, as the option was available for only a very small window -- before any W-30s were made. I posted the stuff below a long time ago:
===============================================

You're right that manual disc brakes were included in the W-30 (and W-31) option in 1970. But for a very short period of time you could choose to delete the discs and go with drums.
Here's my list of Factory documentation of the existence of option JL7, Disc Brake Delete, for 1970 model year W-30s and W-31s:
************************************************
1970 Salesmen's Prices, Equipment, Colors & Trims, Specifications pocket book:
-- The August 1969 edition lists on the 442 page:
"JL7 Brakes, Delete Manual Front Disc -- W30 required. Replaced by drum brakes."
-- A similar listing appears on the F-85 and Cutlass S pages, for W31.
-- On the back cover, Principal Revisions in Available Equipment:
"JL7 Brakes, Delete Manual Front Disc. Added for W Machines."
-- The January 1970 edition of this Salesmen's pocket book makes no mention of option JL7.
***************************
70 Product Bulletin, Bulletin No. 1, Sept 26th 1969
(I believe this is a Canadian document):
"Subject: Oldsmobile Sales Handbook Changes."
-- Option Page 8: "Option JL7 Deletion of Manual Front Disc Brakes has been cancelled."
***************************
1970 Oldsmobile Inspector's Guide, Aug. 1, 1969
-- pages 22 - 23: Accessory Codes -- 1970 Models
The copy of these pages I've seen is heavily pixelated, but it appears that Box 74 Line 1 is: "JL7, Delete Power Disc Brakes (W30, W31)"
-- page 26 is much more legible and definitely mentions option JL7.
***************************
Option JL7 does NOT appear on the Wholesale Car Order Form for 442s dated January 1970. I don't know if it appears on any earlier edition of this form.
************************************************
So it appears that there was a very small window, at least between August 1 and September 26, 1969, when you could delete the disc brakes on your W30 or W31. Of course, the next question is: what dates did the factory actually build with the deletion? If I ordered JL7 in September and the car was built in October, would I get discs or drums?
Complicating this is the fact that I'm not aware of any 1970 W-30s built before October of 1969. (They might be out there, but I haven't seen them.) So if no W-30s were built during the window that JL7 appeared on the books, were any built with it?
I'd love to hear from anyone with more information or experience in this matter.

 

My car has the T44 option and it was built Dec 1969. I don't recall ever seeing the restriction - where did you see this?

 

Thank you Brian for the information, you really did your homework on this subject. I never saw the Product Bulletin noting the cancellation of the JL7 Disc Brake Delete option. I will have to go back to Wild About Cars and look at the print date of the Dealer Order Sheet. That was an interesting option cancellation for 1970, along with the 15" SS-II rims, G60 tires, light weight frames, '69 style air induction, etc...


Diego, the notation about the T-44 Hood Lock not being available with the W-25 hood is also on the same Dealer Order Sheet that I saw on the Wild About Cars historical document link. This might have also been cancelled, as I have seen hood locks on cars with the W-25 hood, though I have yet find someone who has either the window stick or build sheet showing both being installed from the factory on the same car.

 

10-4

 

My W-30 has the T44 hood lock, but you're right: it doesn't appear on the Car Shipping Order (looks like a window sticker), so someone probably added it later. But I don't see any physical reason it can't be there.

 

Brian, what you are eluding to about the the disc brake deletion never actually happening is right on the money. It was not that rare that a certain option/option deletion/etc. was planned, but never happened for various reasons. 1970 was a year full of these transitional changes throughout the year. An implied open window (time-wise) for ordering something does not mean that it was actually available and cars were made that way.
And the dates on the paper trail are not always chronically correct either.
Again, not unusual that at the production level something was stopped, then the bulletin and PIM blueprints were post dated to reflect the change.
I'd be reasonable sure with the production dates of the W30 and the bulletin dates you've appropriately put together that the the disc brake delete never happened.

 

If it is of any worth in what you are discussing, my '72 Cutlass Supreme came with a W25 hood and T44 interior operated hood lock. It is on the window sticker. And I have seen Canadian docs for a '70 442 with W25 and T44.

 

I do not think I've ever seen a Car Shipping Order, could you please forward a copy. Is that the form that was supposedly sent with each car by the respective shipping carrier? It was Anchor Motor Freight on the east coast. I wonder if Anchor Motor Freight still has those records, as it would be the documentation for each Oldsmobile. My e-mail address is alombardy@msn.com.


Thanks,
Anthony

 

Thank you for the information and settling this question. It seems the two options were available together and the Dealer Order Sheet must have been revised at some point.

 

You are quite welcome Anthony

 

The order sheets of that era were not revised. Primarily because they were all sequentially numbered. Changes were simply written in on existing order forms. Often there were Marketing Bulletins that were specific on how to mark up the form. Like this '69 W31 bulletin.

"One source of information is never enough".

 

Nope, it has nothing to do with motor freight. It looks almost exactly like a window sticker. It says "CAR SHIPPING ORDER" and "DEALER COPY" on the top. I don't like to post my own car's documents, but if you do a google images search for "oldsmobile car shipping order" you'll get a couple hits. I'm sure you'll find some images here on ClassicOlds, too.

 

The W25 hood had 2 methods of securement.
1. Under hood latch
2. Chrome hood latches on the top side of the hood.

The T44 hood latch system was simply designed to prevent opening of the hood by using a special latch release mechanism. Have you not looked at the bottom of the OEM W25 hoods and noted that the substructure is metal, and there is a cutout for the hood latch? Most repro hoods (Thornton excepted) don't offer that feature.

Here is a partial copy of a Dealer Order Form showing the T44 ordered for a 1972 W29. I know that's a different hood than the W25, but note there are no restrictions in the box for T44

 

Thank you Allan for the information. It is amazing how things were constantly changing back then as to options & models, even while they were being manufactured. The Cutlass example you sent with the order sheet was very well optioned with performance options, but had the 3-speed manual transmission checked off. Never ceases to amaze me how some cars were ordered.

 

Thank you Kurt for the information. I have used the Wild About Cars website quite often for information about Oldsmobile's, and for reminiscing about the other great car models.

 

Thanks Brian for the additional information. I did as you suggested and found samples of the Car Shipping Order. Just wondering, how did the customer get the copy for their car? Was this mailed to the dealership from Lansing so as to confirm the car was built and it had the proper options/color, or was it received with the delivery of the car to the dealership? Was the dealership suppose to keep the "dealer copy" for their records, or did some dealerships simply give it to the customer once the car was officially sold to them?