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Knowing it’s already established as a clone…..
Could ‘67 W-30’s be ordered with power steering & brakes?
All W30s could be ordered with power steering. That had nothing to do with the cam.
The 1966-67 cars used the 308/308 cam, so power brakes were offered on the 1967 cars at least. 67s used the 11" booster. The 1966 cars still used the 9" booster.
My understanding was all 67 W30's were built in Lansing as well. That was the dead giveaway. The window sticker is in way to good of condition as well. That being said, Whoever did it went all out. It has the correct ram air setup, the WOG Turbo 400, 10 bolt Pontiac, 3.91 rear end, battery in trunk done right, red plastic inner fenders, heavy ground straps under the hood, horns relocated correctly..... I think that's about it. So best i can tell is its an original 442, 400ci E block with C heads, with W30 added.
How can you tell it's even an original 442? Fremont didn't use the 5V cowl tag code. All you can tell from the cowl tag is that it's a Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe, and even then the "8" in 33817 looks kind of sketchy. FYI in the 1967 model year, the W29 442 package was only available on the Cutlass Supreme line. The trans tag is also not original - it's not even a good fake. The stamped numbers would have looked like this:
I'm with Joe. That data plate sure looks like a 6 got modified into an 8.
Two questions. Did you pay legitimate W30 money? And if you did, are you comfortable with a cloned car?
I don't mind a clone (I do however despise the term "tribute car") if it's done to standards and is represented as what it is. If it's passed off as a legitimate car then far as I'm concerned the builder/restorer/seller has committed fraud and should be held accountable.
Last edited by rocketraider; June 24th, 2023 at 09:15 AM.
I bought it fully aware something was fishy and the seller alerted me to that fact as well. He did not advertise as an original W30. Was restored in the mid 80's and has been in climate-controlled situation since as far as i know. It's a pretty clean resto and i am completely happy with a clone, "I hate the term tribute as well, lol." I have always been a fan of cloning stuff as original is out of my price range and i like to drive them, alot. The WOG tag does look too good to be true to me as well, much like the window sticker. Shifts nice though. The trans does need to be gone through as it had a decent amount of clutch material in the pan, has a stripped pan bolt, and has some Macgyver action on the detent. Pretty sure that can all be fixed. Case looks good on inside where the detent plug is so i am hoping it will be fine. The pile of sealant on the left of the detent has a nut on top to catch a long pan bolt as the case threads are stripped. Was going to heli-coil.
I dont have pics of the rear end numbers on the outside, i will get some today, but i did snap a pic of the ring gear when i was in there. I have never seen ring gears stamped like this but seems to indicate 390 Pontiac? Thoughts? Is there a way to confirm if its a real 442 by the VIN?
Is there a way to confirm if its a real 442 by the VIN?
Not for that model year. The only proof short of a build sheet would have been the 5V ACC code on the cowl tag, but since Fremont didn't use those ACC codes, it's a moot point. You'd have been more likely to find a Fremont build sheet in the car, but since the car was completely rebuilt, it is unlikely that would still be in place. If you're satisfied with the value received for your money, drive the wheels off of it and enjoy it. Expect to be criticized by experts at shows, but that's life.
Thanks guys. I actually like the story of this elaborate fake and will be happy to share with the experts. I even have the Muscle Car magazine it was in back in the 80's. Im gonna take a leap of faith and say i THINK its a real 442 even with the sketchy 8. Looks like all the 8's didn't stamp so good so thats what i'll tell myself anyway, lol. And for the record, I am totally happy with the car and what i paid. I had a little medical scare last year and started adding up the cost and time of a frame off resto. In the end I may not have the time and it turned out cheaper to buy one in good shape than to go ground up. Now i just need cooler weather here in Texas since this is a no AC car. Oh btw, did any 67 W30's have AC? I assume not due to the ram air.
Thanks guys. I actually like the story of this elaborate fake and will be happy to share with the experts. I even have the Muscle Car magazine it was in back in the 80's. Im gonna take a leap of faith and say i THINK its a real 442 even with the sketchy 8. Looks like all the 8's didn't stamp so good so thats what i'll tell myself anyway, lol. And for the record, I am totally happy with the car and what i paid. I had a little medical scare last year and started adding up the cost and time of a frame off resto. In the end I may not have the time and it turned out cheaper to buy one in good shape than to go ground up. Now i just need cooler weather here in Texas since this is a no AC car. Oh btw, did any 67 W30's have AC? I assume not due to the ram air.
They were not available with A/C. Also, chances are that most of those options were on on the car when it left the factory. I've never understood the desire to have the highest-performing car Olds made, then saddle it with heavy power options to slow it down. Of course, having said that, I'll point out that my unrestored 1968 W30 actually DOES have pretty much all of those options (except for manual brakes and trans). I know the car was heavily drag raced before I got it and I can only assume the selection of options was done to hit a specific class weight break.
You are correct, it is a Pontiac rearend. 8.2" 10 bolt. According tto this info off a GTO site, it's likely the original rearend for your car.
https://www.gtoforum.com/threads/rea...ission.124546/ "The center housing casting number 9783393 is a '66 & 67 gray iron Pontiac 8.2 piece. This particular gray iron casting center housing was used in standard performance 8.2 10 bolt rears for '66 & '67 Pontiac A-body's, as well as many '66 Olds A-body's "
Originally Posted by mpowell
This is what i can get off the rear end. Cant get the numbers off the top of the axle tube until i get it in the air.
Up through 1967, the 4-4-2 package was an option, not a car line. You have dealer/owner installed options, just like wheel covers or power steering so far as GM was concerned. Do different wheel covers make the car a "clone?" Today, people get all invested in whether a car is "real" and often neglect history. In some cases, it might be more accurate to describe a car as factory built or a conversion. All the 66 W30s that raced at the NHRA Nationals were conversions, using parts sent by Olds Engineering. As far as I know, none of the 1966 factory builds had major racing history like that.
Up through 1967, the 4-4-2 package was an option, not a car line. You have dealer/owner installed options, just like wheel covers or power steering so far as GM was concerned. Do different wheel covers make the car a "clone?" Today, people get all invested in whether a car is "real" and often neglect history. In some cases, it might be more accurate to describe a car as factory built or a conversion. All the 66 W30s that raced at the NHRA Nationals were conversions, using parts sent by Olds Engineering. As far as I know, none of the 1966 factory builds had major racing history like that.
Well said.. interesting none of the 54 1966 w30 cars had any racing history..
Up through 1967, the 4-4-2 package was an option, not a car line. You have dealer/owner installed options, just like wheel covers or power steering so far as GM was concerned. Do different wheel covers make the car a "clone?" Today, people get all invested in whether a car is "real" and often neglect history. In some cases, it might be more accurate to describe a car as factory built or a conversion. All the 66 W30s that raced at the NHRA Nationals were conversions, using parts sent by Olds Engineering. As far as I know, none of the 1966 factory builds had major racing history like that.
I think the reason none of the factory 66 W30 cars were players is the fact by the time they were sold the racing season was just about over. They moved them to Super Stock for the 67 season making it harder to be competitive There were a few with a racing history but not big time winners. Pandora and Mister Black come to mind..
I think the reason none of the factory 66 W30 cars were players is the fact by the time they were sold the racing season was just about over. They moved them to Super Stock for the 67 season making it harder to be competitive There were a few with a racing history but not big time winners. Pandora and Mister Black come to mind..
So Mike were the over the counter kits sold before the actual original 54 w cars were available for purchase? So w cars built in June, possibly to the buyer in July etc, so the w30 over the counter kit was available before that?
So Mike were the over the counter kits sold before the actual original 54 w cars were available for purchase? So w cars built in June, possibly to the buyer in July etc, so the w30 over the counter kit was available before that?
A few select racers had the kits minus the shrouds ahead of the cars being available for sale. The hold up was the shrouds and kits could not be bought until the shrouds were available. When the shrouds were available the select racers got them first. So no kits were sold ahead of the factory cars being available for sale.
The racers had already built and sorted out their 66's by June. There would not have been time to buy, build, and refine a car that came available in July or August for the Labor Day NHRA Nationals. The point of the W30 package to Olds Engineering was to improve competitiveness for the Nationals, so an integral part of their program was to get it to the existing racers.
Thanks Hairy olds. I have already ordered a bunch of PIM type stuff but we shall see how good it is when it arrives. I will be reaching out if i dont get what i need sir.
Thanks Hairy olds. I have already ordered a bunch of PIM type stuff but we shall see how good it is when it arrives. I will be reaching out if i dont get what i need sir.
If you ordered a PIM from anybody than Hairy Olds you're not getting the complete manual or the quality. Just trying to help you.
June 23rd, 2023, 02:33 PM
) if it's done to standards and is represented as what it is. If it's passed off as a legitimate car then far as I'm concerned the builder/restorer/seller has committed fraud and should be held accountable.
