I found a diesel starter in my parts hoard,made in japan 22511854,looks to be pretty heavy duty. question is,can I use it on a gas 455 with a manual transmission?

 

Yes, the diesel starter bolts to any Olds block. The problem is that due to the larger and longer size of that starter, it won't clear stock engine mounts in an A-body. The diesel cars used an offset mount on the driver's side to clear the starter. The frame pad on that side was moved forward from the gas engine location (see photo) and an adapter plate was used on the block to mount the motor mount halfway between the rear and front location. There's no easy way to do this on a pre-1977 car without fabrication work.

 

Diesel starters. The off set starter is what he has. would that make a difference?

 

It would be useful to throw a gas engine starter into that photo.

 

Hey Joe, you act like I don't have anything better to do. Geez. You act like I'm under stay at home orders. Actually I am. Doing some kitchen remod and the wife won't let me out.This Buick is all I have handy at the moment. The mount holes are the same distance front to back as the Olds. Other starters are in storage about a mile away. Wifey is afraid I may catch the virus because 3 doctors told her if i catch it she better get out the butter because if I catch it I'm toast. Off set starter is about 5/8 inch longer than 10MT. End of offset starter case is the same as the 10MT is including the bushing protrusion. The offset bushing is about 5'8 past the 10MT.

 

Excellent, thanks. That shows you exactly why the driver side motor mount was offset.

 

i thought the flywheels were different?seems to me the teeth had a different cut

 

The diesel flexplate does carry a unique part number from the gas engine flexplate, but I don't think this is a tooth difference so much as a strength difference. I'd expect that the thin gas engine flexplate would deflect or crack if asked to turn over a cold diesel engine. I'm just guessing, however. FYI, the starter drive also carries a different part number for the diesel as opposed to the gas engine starters, but again I don't know if this is a gear tooth difference or a strength difference.

 

10 MT is a 9 tooth, diesel is a 10 tooth. I'll get the gear dia in a min I think it is wider.

 

diesel pinion dia is 1.244 inch. 10mt is 1 inch . That is a pretty big difference. I will see if I can find any difference in housing dimentions later. like pinion center to mount hole.

 

Well, there ya go. I assume the motor shaft is the same diameter, allowing one to swap a conventional drive onto a diesel starter for use with a gas engine?

 

i do remember the flywheels being much heavier for the diesel(thicker) it seems to me the teeth had a different cut or look them

 

10Mt shaft is .469 Diesel shaft is .500 Drive swap would be a no go.

 

Damn. I tried...

 

We both did and I led you on a wild goose chase. I reread the 1st post. He has the Japan Mitsubishi starter which was later superseded to the delco 15MT that I showed. They look very similar but they are a horse of a different color. The units are interchangeable but not the parts. His has an open front housing with the pinion fully exposed. The drive pinion is removable from the drive clutch shaft. There may be a pinion that would work but it probably isn't worth the effort to find one. There are too many easier alternatives to use like an OE style starter or an aftermarket. Sorry Joe.

 

thanks for all the replies and the legwork.was tring to see if I could use it as a poormans hi torque unit. thanks again

 

Diesel starter must be used with Diesel flywheel/flexplate.

The Diesel flywheel ring gear is slightly smaller than the gasoline engine--and therefore has a few fewer teeth. This makes up for the larger-diameter starter drive on the Diesel starter.

By changing the gear ratio between pinion and ring gear, the Diesel should crank "faster" if there's enough battery power to support the current draw. Did the Diesels have double batteries? I think so.

 

Shurkey is quite correct. I found this out the hard way when I tried to us a diesel starter on a 455 a long time ago. Certainly my 1979 Delta 88 Royale diesel had two batteries.

Roger.

 

I need a new diesel starter. Is there one that’s better then other? A particular part number or just get whatever is available? I would buy a known good used one if someone has one.

 

R, if you have a starter, do you have a local shop that can go thru it? That's always been my preference.

 

I know for a fact the diesel flywheel is different than gas.

Years ago when I swapped out the diesel 350 on my dads 81 GMC, I failed to notice the difference in flywheels. I had planned to use just a regular gas starter in place of the ridiculously heavy diesel starter. I dont remember exactly what the problem was, but it was obvious it wasn’t going to work before I even tried to start the truck.

Fast forward a few years, I ended up removing the transmission to swap flywheels when the diesel starter end frame cracked. I either couldn’t find a starter to rebuild, or didn’t want to pay the crazy cost of a remanufactured starter. I have slept a lot since I did the 455 swap in that truck, some of the details have slipped my mind.

 

I have one, but I'm sure it needs rebuilt. I can do that if you need one.

 

get
one for an 84 or 85.these will be the gear reduction starters,smaller and a heck of alot lighter.

 

I bought one from rockauto, $88 and change including $10 core charge. Planning on keeping the one being replaced, might have it rebuilt for a spare.

 

I found this out the hard way myself. I have a "D" block conversion in my '69 and put a set of Hooker Super Comps on it only to find out that the original diesel starter wouldn't physically clear with the offset motor. I ordered a RobMC mini starter for it only to hear it sing like a whistling bottle rocket as the pinion ground against the tips of the flywheel teeth. I called RobMC up and he did a little looking and sent me a larger pinion (used on a Pontiac or Chrysler I believe) and it worked like a champ. I have a picture of the 2 side by side somewhere. Yep...definitely a difference.

-Chris