Air Dam Reinforcement - what does it do and does anyone have one?
#1
Air Dam Reinforcement - what does it do and does anyone have one?
In Section 11, Page 104, of my 72 Assy Manual, there is a part described as "410410 - REINFORCEMENT" . In the note, it's application shows to be for 35L77 & L75 with 35M20 - which I'm assuming is for 455's with manual transmission. Does anyone know what it's function is, and if anyone might have one for sale?
It's kind of interesting that the lower part of the core support that the air deflector and reinforcement are attached to is referred to as the "Tie Bar".
It's kind of interesting that the lower part of the core support that the air deflector and reinforcement are attached to is referred to as the "Tie Bar".
#2
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
In Section 11, Page 104, of my 72 Assy Manual, there is a part described as "410410 - REINFORCEMENT" . In the note, it's application shows to be for 35L77 & L75 with 35M20 - which I'm assuming is for 455's with manual transmission. Does anyone know what it's function is, and if anyone might have one for sale?
It's kind of interesting that the lower part of the core support that the air deflector and reinforcement are attached to is referred to as the "Tie Bar".
It's kind of interesting that the lower part of the core support that the air deflector and reinforcement are attached to is referred to as the "Tie Bar".
I've been looking for that part for quite some time now. I wouldn't assume that its for SMTs though. The AM simply states for use with the 455 engines. That could also be AT. What purpose does it serve? I don't know and most of the guys I've asked here don't either. This part was only on the 71/72 cars IIRC. Earlier years didn't have it - just the regular air dam. I've asked a couple of the guys who part out these A bodies if they've got them. None do
If I find one for sale? I'm buying it. If I find another? I'll PM you. Like you, I don't know what its purpose is because it makes no sense unless it's to attach other rubber deflector parts? If you ever find out the answer please let me know.
#3
Ha! Another one!
I've been looking for that part for quite some time now. I wouldn't assume that its for SMTs though. The AM simply states for use with the 455 engines. That could also be AT. What purpose does it serve? I don't know and most of the guys I've asked here don't either. This part was only on the 71/72 cars IIRC. Earlier years didn't have it - just the regular air dam. I've asked a couple of the guys who part out these A bodies if they've got them. None do
If I find one for sale? I'm buying it. If I find another? I'll PM you. Like you, I don't know what its purpose is because it makes no sense unless it's to attach other rubber deflector parts? If you ever find out the answer please let me know.
I've been looking for that part for quite some time now. I wouldn't assume that its for SMTs though. The AM simply states for use with the 455 engines. That could also be AT. What purpose does it serve? I don't know and most of the guys I've asked here don't either. This part was only on the 71/72 cars IIRC. Earlier years didn't have it - just the regular air dam. I've asked a couple of the guys who part out these A bodies if they've got them. None do
If I find one for sale? I'm buying it. If I find another? I'll PM you. Like you, I don't know what its purpose is because it makes no sense unless it's to attach other rubber deflector parts? If you ever find out the answer please let me know.
Thanks Allen - I went back and looked at it again - I THINK what it means application wise is that it is intended for for L77 cars ( X code W30's with either AT or MT) or L75's with M20 (V code non W30 455 MT cars) - at least in 1972. I'll be on the hunt as well and let you know if the second one turns up......
Last edited by costpenn; February 5th, 2012 at 12:48 PM.
#5
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
#10
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
#11
Would you mind posting a pic of it sometime - do you know what is it made out of? And, send me a PM with a price if you're really wanting to sell.
#12
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
#13
Hi
I sent Allan an email. If he replies I will send him a picture of it on the car. I am sure he will be able to post it on CO. I could not.
The chin spoiler / reinforcement is made out of steel.
I sent Allan an email. If he replies I will send him a picture of it on the car. I am sure he will be able to post it on CO. I could not.
The chin spoiler / reinforcement is made out of steel.
#15
#17
I still got one on my 71. It's a Lansing car, but it's not a W-30 or 4 speed. In 71, it specifies 4400 series only, which pretty much meant any 71 442 should have it. Yep, it is metal. But it's not coming off any time soon.
#18
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Reinforcement picture
I cropped the pic but still have the full size image of your car on file. Beautiful looking 72 fastback.
#21
Thanks for posting> The only thing I can think of for the part's use might be to protect the plastic part of the air dam that points down from damage - but dont know why that was only a good idea for 442's - unless they expected them to be getting airborne more than the average Cutlass would.....
#22
#23
I'll try to get some good pics of a loose one I straightened/primed for a guy here. Hopefully he still has it sitting on his parts shelf. With some work a reasonable duplicate could be made...definitely would be a few hours but the thing wasn't so complex that you would say "no way".
They were likely painted black originally since the "marching orders" seemed to be a black finish on things hanging under the car that might be seen.
I suspect the repro guys like ILT would be doing the math on this piece to see if a repro makes sense.
They were likely painted black originally since the "marching orders" seemed to be a black finish on things hanging under the car that might be seen.
I suspect the repro guys like ILT would be doing the math on this piece to see if a repro makes sense.
#26
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Don't know if ILT would, but OPG, Year One and Classic industries might. From what I could see of the pic I posted for Brian, this isn't something I could pound out. It looks like a heavy gage stamped part.
#28
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
#29
I have to borrow it so I don't think it's "re-borrowable". You are proposing the same thing that, in part, put MF Global into bankruptcy...it's called hypothecation (and rehypothecation). Broker/dealers "lend out" the securities they hold for customers as well as their own. The borrowing firms typically re-lend them and so on. It's fine...until it isn't!! Then the whole thing comes unraveled AND FAST.
Thus, what you are proposing could possibly bring down the whole Olds restoration world should the original owner ask for it back at an inopportune time.
Thus, what you are proposing could possibly bring down the whole Olds restoration world should the original owner ask for it back at an inopportune time.
#34
It seems the the '72 Assy. Man. page in question shows it is in fact for all A-bodies with a big block, it's just a matter of # of bolts attaching it. I couldn't find it in the '71 Assy. Man. but I didn't look too hard. The '72 edition page shows it was revised in Feb of '71 so it wasn't a mid year change for the '72's.
#35
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Scott, it's in both manuals. I looked and found them during my research. In the manual, it's attached with the rear air dam mounting bolts. The reinforcement bolt holes are supposed to line right up.
#36
That's what I'm saying - the '69/'70 dams warped BECAUSE they don't have the reinforcement the '71/'72 cars have. Since the plastic dams are essentially the same for '69-'72, it leads me to believe it was a 'band-aid' attempt to prevent the warpage.
#37
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
'Warp' speed Mr. Murphy....
Ok, what I don't understand is what causes warping?? The same air dam used for 350's is the same as the one in the 455s. The 350's don't cause warping - my air dam still is nice and straight. Where and why does the warp occur? If there was a serious problem with this, why wouldn't the engineers have installed the reinforcement retro for 69 and standard for 70? Or did it take that long for the warping to show and an engineering fix to make its way through production into the assembly line? Not arguing, just trying to understand. Anything you can add would be appreciated.
#38
Ok, what I don't understand is what causes warping?? The same air dam used for 350's is the same as the one in the 455s. The 350's don't cause warping - my air dam still is nice and straight. Where and why does the warp occur? If there was a serious problem with this, why wouldn't the engineers have installed the reinforcement retro for 69 and standard for 70? Or did it take that long for the warping to show and an engineering fix to make its way through production into the assembly line? Not arguing, just trying to understand. Anything you can add would be appreciated.
#39
Maybe it's not so much a warping problem as it is a parking curb impact problem that is resulting in permanent distortion and installation of the reinforcement was to try to combat that. Purely my own speculation.
#40
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
In 69 the part number is the same (page 11-111) of the 69 Assembly Manual.
70-72 AMs the part 398171 is the same. So it's a part that was supposed to be installed on all 68-72 Cutlass models. There is nothing in the AM that even suggests that the lower deflector (air dam) would be special for any of the A bodies.
It's only the reinforcement that enters the picture in 71/72, specifically for 455 cars.