toymobile

His asked "Didn't you see me"

onetogofast

Lol wow some people!

Octania

The train's horn did not seem to have the desired effect.
And yet, it keeps blowing.

MDchanic

And that's how long it takes a train to stop if it's going - what? - about 20 or 35 miles an hour.

Hear those brakes locked up that whole time?


I suspect that's policy - in case there is someone in the car who doesn't realize it's time to GTF out, and to get everyone AWAY from the potential fireball.


Morals of the story?
• Don't get hit by a train.
• If you've hung your limo up on a grade crossing, and you ever want to see drive it again, send someone down the tracks about a MILE with a flashlight or a flag to stop the train.
• Don't hang your limo up on a grade crossing.
• And get everyone the F out of the car ASAP. At least they did that one right.

I bet the paperwork from that one kept a whole camp full of lumberjacks employed.

- Eric

ps: This may be a good moment to point out that cars on the highway are not that different from trains in the way in which they stick to a single trajectory and do not change speed very well.

If you ever find yourself (or someone else whom you want to help) stuck on the side of the road, at night, or even during the day, you want to get the car as far away from the road as possible and lay out flares starting AT LEAST 1,000 feet before the car.
How far is that? We're talking at least a 5-minute walk.

A quarter mile takes about 12 seconds to travel at 75mph, which is JUST BARELY enough time for someone to see you, process your presence, and avoid you.
Strike one flare, hold it by its base straight out from your shoulder as far as you can reach, on the traffic side, and walk back along the road, as far from the road as possible, with the flare held outward. Set down a flare every 100 yards or so.

If there is a visual obstacle, such as a hill or a turn, you should start a quarter mile before that.
Really.

The side of the highway is one of the most dangerous places you can be in this country, and people are killed there every day, even on straight stretches, in broad daylight, by sober drivers.

Anyway, back to our normally scheduled program...

Allan R

Chris - horns are only warning devices on these engines. The hoghead will sound the horn as much as practical to warn of a pending collision. A series of short sounds is an emergency signal. Heavy trains like this take a LOT of time to stop. By the time the engineer sees the vehicle it's too late. What happens to stop the train?
1. The engineer has to throw the train into emergency braking. This means....
2. Air has to pressurize the brake cylinders in EVERY car of the train through the brake pipes BEFORE the compression shoes even begin to apply.
3. Compression shoes have limited braking capability. Once they're fully applied that's all they can do. Yes they do allow slippage.
4. Deceleration is gradual even at slow speeds with a 10,000 ton loaded freight. It just can't stop fast no matter what. Once the engineer throws the train into emergency that's all he can do. This could also cause a derailment if there were any empty flat cars in the consist of the train.

That train did an excellent job stopping and the engineer should be commended (don't forget he's a victim of circumstances too) I'd bet the train was already in braking mode before the first horn blast was given. A fully loaded freight (mile long train) travelling at 60 mph will take well over a mile to stop. That one stopped in likely just under a half mile judging by the video imaging.

Words to live by. Seriously - if you want to challenge a train and live. Best yet? Don't block the crossing with the damn car in the first place.

Cman7713

"My dad is a tv repair man, he's got this ultimate set of tools, I can fix it"-Jeff Spicoli

kitfoxdave

He may be able to just buff that out....

cherokeepeople

this brings up a tragic accident a buddy's brothers were in.his older brother neils car got a flat on the side of the road late one night.he stopped his car with 4 ways on.he was on a slight hill just over the crest.he was changing the front tire when his oldest brother happened to come along.and a car was coming from the other direction. his brothers only course of action was to take the ditch.but at that same time neil jumped in the ditch to avoid getting hit.he was hit and killed by his brother.

MDchanic

Yup. Saw a guy get killed changing a tire on the Harlem River Drive with his wife and small daughter in the car on Christmas Eve.

Better to drive on the rim.

- Eric

Koda

The kicker is from which way will the train approach?

MDchanic

An excellent question.

There is a single-track line near me where the trains can come by in either direction at 50-70mph, and line of sight is not great for them. If you're stuck on the tracks, best to just grab what's important and get moving, then try to call AmTrak and see if they can get hold of the train.

Had a guy driving a heavy dump truck killed a couple of years back - the tracks cross that road at a bit of an angle, making it easy to see the tracks to the right, but (with the help of a stand of trees) make it impossible to see to the left unless you turn your neck like an owl while you are on the tracks.
Those dualie skid marks went for hundreds of feet, down the hill, toward the left, skirting around the crossing gate, and headed more or less in the direction where there was no train visible, because you can't see that way.
Standing on the brakes turned out to be a fateful decision, as the train caught the cab flat-on on the driver's side at about 60.
You could see the gouges in the ground for a hundred feet past the intersection from the truck.
If he'd hit the gas instead of the brake, he'd have probably busted through both gates and been fine, or at least got clipped in the back of the box.
The difference between life or death is often just a split second.

- Eric

Allan R

I respect your question but it's really moot. Don't your safety laws state right in the drivers handbook that trains can approach on either track in either direction? That's the fundamental rule of safety at a crossing. If there are warning gates, they're activated by a track circuit to allow 20 seconds of warning before the train occupies the crossing (assuming track speed is used). The onus for safety at crossings, controlled or uncontrolled is squarely on the motorist - as it should be.

Koda

My question was meant for which way do you send the flagger the mile down the track if you find yourself stuck on the crossing.

MDchanic

Yes they do, but in this case, the guy hung up the stretch limo on the rise, causing it to be immobilized because the rear wheels were no longer in contact with the road.
If he was smart and fast, and there was no train in earshot, he could have had the passengers sit on the trunk lid to get enough weight on the wheels to carry the car over the hump, instead of getting them out of the car with enough time to get their cameras out, but if the train was already coming, that would have been a "bad idea."

Of course, not even trying to get a stretch limo over a significant grade crossing rise might have been even wiser, but maybe it was his first day on the job...

- Eric

Allan R

Again, it's moot. You don't send someone down the tracks, you get on the darn cell phone and call 911. They will get in touch with the train authority to tell them of the situation. Beyond that there's really bugger all you can do that's really practical.

...or the passengers could have got out and pushed?? One way or another the operator of the limo should have been able to determine that the crossing created a clearance issue. If that was my limo I'd be darned sure I had the right person operating it who understands the dynamics of a fulcrum.

As you say, it may have been the first day on the job. But IMO that doesn't cut the muster for this kind of poor judgement. Yes, I'm biased in favor of the train, but then I understand how trains work.

Koda

It's not moot, I was responding to Eric's bullet of:

Yes, it was about half tongue-in-cheek.

MDchanic

But if they pushed, and the weight of the car were resting on the frame rails (or the transmission crossmember, or the mufflers...). they wouldn't get far, whereas if they got the wheels on the ground with a bit of weight on top of them, he might have been able to use their much greater power to drag it backward onto the front wheels.

- Eric

Allan R

Yes, I understand am I'm not insensitive to the situation. But what happens if you only have the driver and he goes the wrong way? It's a crap shoot. That's why I suggested using technology (911 on cell phone) to potentially avoid a crash. Unless you absolutely know the schedule and direction of the trains in the area.....

Believe me when I say I take this issue of rail safety and crossings quite seriously. I used to be in the rail industry before I retired. I haven't seen anyone win an argument with a train. Know what it's like when an engine hits a vehicle on the tracks? It's like hitting a pop can with your car. There's just no forgiveness.

I'm all for keeping everyone safe at the crossings and have seen too many times when peeps made the wrong decision. My comments aren't aimed at any of you, they're simply a reflection of practicality. Who in today's world doesn't have a cell phone? Also keep in mind that if you can see the train coming it's usually too late. And, from head on it's terribly hard to know what speed it's travelling. Hope we're still good?

Koda

Oh yeah, we're fine. Carry on. Calling the EMS is best.

oldspackrat

Slightly off topic but a set of jumper cables with either pos. or neg. clamps touching both rails near a crossing sets off the lights & gate(if present). I'm sure it's illegal but we did it in high school at night to mess with cars coming down the road.

allyolds68

It also sets off a red signal in the "block" that the train is running in. The train will instantly get this red signal in the cab and the engineer will apply the brakes. As far as I know trains don't rely on signal bridges any more. This looked like a spur rather than a main line but the process to set off a red signal is still the same. The limo's frame rails probably weren't actually resting on the rail because the rails are generally slightly recessed into the pavement. If they were the train may have gotten the signal long before it reached the crossing.


(I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night but I did work for Conrail for a short time )

Allan R

Not always. Depends on whether that grade crossing is monitored by CTC. Road crossing protections aren't always wired to the red signals either. Our property did have that redundant safety feature to indicate a problem in the block ahead. As you mention though it's dependent on the position of the train to the signal or problem area.

Scott, Yeah we had our share of that nonsense too. A royal PITA too because trains passing a red signal had to be authorized and couldn't exceed Restricted speed to the next Block. We didn't have the luxury of finding jumper cables, the track crews usually reported they found coat hangers connecting the 2 running rails to complete the advance gate protection circuit. Maybe fun to prank motorists, but a major delay to trains.

z11375ss

I hate those gaudy POS's anyway. Wham!!!!