Fram Oil Fliters
March 27th, 2011, 04:21 PM
#1
Fram Oil Fliters
I know Fram oil filters are getting a bad name. I was wondering why?
Here is a nice shot of an Olds engine during tear down that was running with Frams. I see nothing out of the ordinary here.
But seriously, why are they no longer a prefered filter?
Adam
Here is a nice shot of an Olds engine during tear down that was running with Frams. I see nothing out of the ordinary here.
But seriously, why are they no longer a prefered filter?
Adam
March 27th, 2011, 04:27 PM
#2
Some BP Blaster and engine cleaner will take care of that puppy! I have heard Fram getting a bad reputation, but I have never had any issues with them. I do use them on the Olds, Charger, and Jeep. I like the textured end makes them easier to remove. I'm sure other will chime in with issues they may have had, but I have been pretty happy with them.
March 27th, 2011, 04:48 PM
#3
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Frams quality control is non-exhistent!
Erratic oil pressure, super tight weave on the paper - not letting the oil through, messed-up paper giving no filtration, holes too small at the inlet, etc.
Kind of the Murphy's Law of oil filters!!
Check the search function - there's a few listed.
Erratic oil pressure, super tight weave on the paper - not letting the oil through, messed-up paper giving no filtration, holes too small at the inlet, etc.
Kind of the Murphy's Law of oil filters!!
Check the search function - there's a few listed.
March 27th, 2011, 04:52 PM
#4
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Here is a good thread for ya...
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-question.html
Boy, that engine is crusty!
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-question.html
Boy, that engine is crusty!
March 27th, 2011, 06:14 PM
#6
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My local NAPA used to have a NAPA Gold filter and a Fram cut apart sitting on the counter. BIG difference in construction! Also saw a couple guys at the local track blow the HP Fram filters. Damn near smashed the Road Runner and Chevelle up. They both blew the gaskets out of them with 35-40 PSI pressure 
.
.
March 27th, 2011, 07:22 PM
#8
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Posts: 63
The "CPH 25" is a filter that is normally sold through one of the big box stores such as a Canadian Tire or Walmart. The "PH 25" is a filter that is usually sold through a jobber. I was told a few years back that that CPH 25 is an inferior filter that does not have the same longevity or PPM filtering capability. I have never validated this by cutting one in half and comparing it to another. I do recall there being a premium price attached to the PH 25 unit. This could be a marketing ploy however....
Regards,
Brad
Regards,
Brad
March 27th, 2011, 08:08 PM
#9
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Google it. Tons of information out there.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html
March 28th, 2011, 05:38 AM
#11
Sooooo.....
Best filter for the $$ for use in a street / cruising engine is the WIX or Napa (made by WIX.)
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51258
The last garage I worked in used the WIX line as the standard oil filter and and "new and improved" AC Delco line as the premium oil filter upgrade. Oops!
I never saw any issuses with the WIX line. We saw poorly cut/rolled threads on the Delco's regularly. They would spin on and snug up about half a turn before tight causing a nice mess on ther floor when you fired it up. We had a bin just for defective Delco's that we would exchange 3-5 filters with our rep every two weeks. We had 4 bay with 5 lifts garage. That was too many defects.
Adam
PS - I have a brand new Fram PH25 in box. Free - you pay shipping and it is yours! It's a SureGRIP, which adds 5 HP just by spinning it on.
Best filter for the $$ for use in a street / cruising engine is the WIX or Napa (made by WIX.)
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51258
The last garage I worked in used the WIX line as the standard oil filter and and "new and improved" AC Delco line as the premium oil filter upgrade. Oops!
I never saw any issuses with the WIX line. We saw poorly cut/rolled threads on the Delco's regularly. They would spin on and snug up about half a turn before tight causing a nice mess on ther floor when you fired it up. We had a bin just for defective Delco's that we would exchange 3-5 filters with our rep every two weeks. We had 4 bay with 5 lifts garage. That was too many defects.
Adam
PS - I have a brand new Fram PH25 in box. Free - you pay shipping and it is yours! It's a SureGRIP, which adds 5 HP just by spinning it on.
March 28th, 2011, 01:00 PM
#12
Wow, I thought all filter's were made by a manufacture and stamped for filter companies. So who has the best filter, they are very important. You don't want to screw up an engine for 5 dollars
March 28th, 2011, 07:43 PM
#15
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March 29th, 2011, 04:43 AM
#16
I have one question left, On the WIX site it will give all applications for the 51258filter. It lists 442, F-85, Cutlass Supreme, Vista Cruiser, Delta 88, 98, Omega, Custom Cruiser and Tornado. All with various engines. It does not list the Cutlass S at all. Will I need to custom order a special filter because I have a Cutlass S?
Why would Olds not use the standard oil filter on the Cutlass S models? BTW, this post is 100% joke
Fram is now a 4 letter F-word.
Adam
March 29th, 2011, 06:18 AM
#17
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Carquest blue box filters are also Wix. However, Carquest also has a red box filter that is priced cheaper and I have no Idea who makes it.
Carquest has this blue box, red box thing to separate the better stuff from the cheaper stuff, in brakes, filters, I don't know how many items are like that. Blue is always better and more expensive. Their belts and hoses are Gates.
Carquest has this blue box, red box thing to separate the better stuff from the cheaper stuff, in brakes, filters, I don't know how many items are like that. Blue is always better and more expensive. Their belts and hoses are Gates.
March 29th, 2011, 07:50 AM
#19
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Here's a study for you..........I will never again use a Fram filter just because of the failures I have seen. Both regular and the HP series filter tend to blow the gaskets, a QC problem I'm sure. As with any study, the facts and figures can be twisted any way the author sees to fit his purposes.
March 29th, 2011, 10:51 AM
#20
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never had any trouble with any filter.
even used fram on 4 cylinder engines exeeding 90 psi.
as for filter i use a bleu delco filter without any problem.
with 20w50 oil with about 60psi without a singel problem.
no ofense, but when filter propperly is mounted it is hard to blow a gasket out.
And mine don't stay that long on it to deteriorate the rubber sealing.
and i could live with the idea that high performance engines at high rpm need a lesser clossed filter to give more oil flow.
So the only thing i thrust is my oilpressure gauge
even used fram on 4 cylinder engines exeeding 90 psi.
as for filter i use a bleu delco filter without any problem.
with 20w50 oil with about 60psi without a singel problem.
no ofense, but when filter propperly is mounted it is hard to blow a gasket out.
And mine don't stay that long on it to deteriorate the rubber sealing.
and i could live with the idea that high performance engines at high rpm need a lesser clossed filter to give more oil flow.
So the only thing i thrust is my oilpressure gauge
March 29th, 2011, 03:14 PM
#24
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When a bunch of vehicle enthusiasts across the entire spectrum of PERFORMANCE car forums tend
to all agree Fram are not the best with documented tear downs and pictures to depict their findings,
it's up to the individuals to come to their own conclusions. Personally I've never had an issue with
FRAM myself, but I tend to lean towards the findings I've read that they're not the best.
I also only use them for the most part in stock vehicles.
It took a few decades for Dr's to stop telling people Smoking was safe for them and it caused cancer.
It took them decades to finally prove that one.
We all know one truth in life......just because it hasn't been proven yet by some scientist whose research
could easily be trumped with the right $$$ invested into an opposing scientists studies from parties with
something to gain (like the tobacco co's) , doesn't mean it's not true.
We don't need Einstein to tell us that Harbor Freight doesn't use the highest standards of metallurgy
in their tools do we??
More often then not, you can trust your own arena of common people with experience and findings more then you can a corporate entity with $$$ gain involved.
I read reviews for products before buying......I know I'm not the only one.
Those reviews are never written by scientists.....they're written by common people sharing
their experiences. Many times those reviews can help ID a bad product for the next buyer to avoid.
However the way your argument is unfolding , it seems you feel buyer reviews are also hyperbole and
a waste of time for consumers. Consumer reports also a waste of time for buyers???
Last edited by Aceshigh; March 29th, 2011 at 03:30 PM.
March 29th, 2011, 03:18 PM
#25
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When a bunch of vehicle enthusiasts across the entire spectrum of car forums tend to all agree Fram are not the best with documented tear downs and pictures to depict their findings, it's up to the individuals to come to their own conclusions.
Personally I've never had an issue with FRAM myself, but I tend to lean towards the findings I've read that they're not the best.
I never had an issue with the Motorcraft filters I get from there!
March 29th, 2011, 05:14 PM
#26
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What studies? Please don't paste from enthusiast sources with no basis in scientific or laboratory testing, full of excess hyperbole. None here, on the HAMB or 20 other places has demonstrated any engine failure where a Fram filter of any type was traced as the cause. Nor has anyone proven a Wix or Baldwin filter has prevented any damage caused otherwise. Here's a summary of the dumbed-down argument across many forums, not just this forum:
1) We hate Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart sells Fram
2) We think we know what we are looking at in opened new and used filters, perhaps on display at point of sale
3) We use $6 passenger car filters outside of their scope of design in high performance engines and think we have been shortchanged, so then:
4) Our $5000 engine does not merit the best spin on filter money can buy by any maker, which as it happens is the Fram HP series costing a whopping $10, to many a userous sum
I don't really care what filter anyone runs. Use what you like and sleep better thinking your choice made in forum threads is informed, which it isn't. It's this British soccer mob mentality where you overun facts with pre-disposed desire to reach a certain conclusion that rubs me wrong.
And now a technical point for the hundreds who come on to many forums and lie about attributing rattle on start up to a Fram filter: You geniuses ought to consider before commiting lies to print in most GM reliable engine designs, the filter is mounted open end up (notable exclusion: early Oldsmobile V-8 which does not drain to sump by filter housing design). Even if any spin-on filter has no internal check valve, the oil in the vertical filter will not siphon back in to sump even after years of sitting. Research in the dawn of the modern OHV V-8 determined most every case of cold start up rattle can be traced to either improper rear main clearance and/or worn oil pump allowing valve train to quickly drain to sump (assuming hydraulic lifter bleed down rate is within spec), causing by effect slow build up of general oil pressure as the passages are refilled. Regardless of filters and brands and engine build quality, I must be the only guy reading this who as a matter of procedure cranks engine for 30 secs to build oil pressure after storage before start up, no lower end rattles here.
If the huge reliability gains suggested by the simple selection of one filter over another had any demonstrated basis, I would add my vote to the thinking the new car manufacturers would specify what filter could or could not be used for warranty to remain in effect. If the realized gains by the use of any could be quantified in longer engine service life, vehicles would have complicated filtration systems, such as screens or porous bronze elements and replaceable filters. It simply is not as critical a factor as people who want the very best for their engines would like to believe.
I asked for studies at the head of my remarks, if any reader wonders where my annotation is, I see no point in making any. It is clear people will accept as fact BS they read presented in a factual manner about filters and anything else, simply because they read it, and their training is to beleive what is read. Do your own research, ignore the BS. CW
1) We hate Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart sells Fram
2) We think we know what we are looking at in opened new and used filters, perhaps on display at point of sale
3) We use $6 passenger car filters outside of their scope of design in high performance engines and think we have been shortchanged, so then:
4) Our $5000 engine does not merit the best spin on filter money can buy by any maker, which as it happens is the Fram HP series costing a whopping $10, to many a userous sum
I don't really care what filter anyone runs. Use what you like and sleep better thinking your choice made in forum threads is informed, which it isn't. It's this British soccer mob mentality where you overun facts with pre-disposed desire to reach a certain conclusion that rubs me wrong.
And now a technical point for the hundreds who come on to many forums and lie about attributing rattle on start up to a Fram filter: You geniuses ought to consider before commiting lies to print in most GM reliable engine designs, the filter is mounted open end up (notable exclusion: early Oldsmobile V-8 which does not drain to sump by filter housing design). Even if any spin-on filter has no internal check valve, the oil in the vertical filter will not siphon back in to sump even after years of sitting. Research in the dawn of the modern OHV V-8 determined most every case of cold start up rattle can be traced to either improper rear main clearance and/or worn oil pump allowing valve train to quickly drain to sump (assuming hydraulic lifter bleed down rate is within spec), causing by effect slow build up of general oil pressure as the passages are refilled. Regardless of filters and brands and engine build quality, I must be the only guy reading this who as a matter of procedure cranks engine for 30 secs to build oil pressure after storage before start up, no lower end rattles here.
If the huge reliability gains suggested by the simple selection of one filter over another had any demonstrated basis, I would add my vote to the thinking the new car manufacturers would specify what filter could or could not be used for warranty to remain in effect. If the realized gains by the use of any could be quantified in longer engine service life, vehicles would have complicated filtration systems, such as screens or porous bronze elements and replaceable filters. It simply is not as critical a factor as people who want the very best for their engines would like to believe.
I asked for studies at the head of my remarks, if any reader wonders where my annotation is, I see no point in making any. It is clear people will accept as fact BS they read presented in a factual manner about filters and anything else, simply because they read it, and their training is to beleive what is read. Do your own research, ignore the BS. CW
March 29th, 2011, 05:43 PM
#27
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March 29th, 2011, 09:10 PM
#30
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I saw the Wix cutaway years ago at the point of sale and that did it for me. I can remember when Fram was considered the standard. I am not going to get into a pizzing contest about an oil filter and don;t think anybody should. Just say what you use and like. Under normal conditions I wonder if anybody will notice any difference as long as they change the oil and filter regularly. I doubt it. I doubt a Fram filter ever distroyed an engine.
March 29th, 2011, 09:45 PM
#31
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Yet another study done that's well known on several forums I found.
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
Filters to avoid > http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html#avoid
Recommended filters > http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html
I forgot Purolators were well rated in other studies as well as WIX/Napa brand.
Pep Boys and Advanced Auto Parts carries them. Not sure who else.
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
Filters to avoid > http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html#avoid
Recommended filters > http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html
I forgot Purolators were well rated in other studies as well as WIX/Napa brand.
Pep Boys and Advanced Auto Parts carries them. Not sure who else.
Last edited by Aceshigh; March 30th, 2011 at 04:03 PM.
March 30th, 2011, 05:06 AM
#32
Boy did I open a big....
I never thought this would get so heated.
I do like seeing actual controlled experiments and the results.
To me, an untrained eye, cutting the can open an looking at the internal parts is fun. However, I do not know the filtering properities of one paper over another. It is easy for me to assume that more filter material is better than less.
The WIX has a good reputation, and Fram is waning. I have alway used Frams and never experienced any problems. I have never had an engine fail, yet. I have had 4 cyc, 6 and 8 cyc. Oldest is the 350 in my '68. Newest is a '09 Mitsubishi. In between, an '86x2, '98, 2000, '02, '03.
Like I said before, I have used WIX professionally, and personally at times, without problems or concerns. Public opinion can be good and bad. If the opinion is based on fact it can be reliable. Based on rumour or a biased thought it can bad. Take everything on a public forum with a grain of salt.
I do value the opinions and information given here. I will be switching to the WIX made filters, but I am not going to run out and change the filter on my engine in fear that it will explode the next time I pull away from a red light.
Adam
I never thought this would get so heated.
I do like seeing actual controlled experiments and the results.
To me, an untrained eye, cutting the can open an looking at the internal parts is fun. However, I do not know the filtering properities of one paper over another. It is easy for me to assume that more filter material is better than less.
The WIX has a good reputation, and Fram is waning. I have alway used Frams and never experienced any problems. I have never had an engine fail, yet. I have had 4 cyc, 6 and 8 cyc. Oldest is the 350 in my '68. Newest is a '09 Mitsubishi. In between, an '86x2, '98, 2000, '02, '03.
Like I said before, I have used WIX professionally, and personally at times, without problems or concerns. Public opinion can be good and bad. If the opinion is based on fact it can be reliable. Based on rumour or a biased thought it can bad. Take everything on a public forum with a grain of salt.
I do value the opinions and information given here. I will be switching to the WIX made filters, but I am not going to run out and change the filter on my engine in fear that it will explode the next time I pull away from a red light.
Adam
March 30th, 2011, 05:29 AM
#33
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Posts: 234
I had used Fram for many years without issue. The only filter I had trouble with was AC Delco PF47 back in the 80's. There were 2 designs, one with symmetrical holes and the other with asymmetrical holes. The asymmetrical hole filter would cause noise during start-up. Now I use AC Delco or Napa Gold. I liked the Fram but don't trust the cardboard ends in it
March 30th, 2011, 06:36 PM
#36
I can't say they are using them, but K&N became the marketing wise "Official Oil Filter of NASCAR this year.
http://hometracks.nascar.com/Release...ip_With_NASCAR
WIX's web site shows that were the "Official Filter" starting in 1996 and that they resigned again in 2002 iirc.
Adam
March 30th, 2011, 07:05 PM
#38
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March 30th, 2011, 07:19 PM
#40
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What percentage of the time does it run more than 1,000 RPM below its redline?
What percentage of the time is it running at full throttle? 80% throttle? 50%?
Do you change the oil every time you drive it?
- Eric
