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So, my 25 Kia Carnival falls on its face intermittently. I thought about asking if this would have been a secondary air valve or accelerator pump issue on a Classic Oldsmobile. Regardless, the Carnival is in the shop for the 3rd time for this issue and it will be 30 days in the shop this Thursday.
This is definitely scary. Trying to merge into traffic and the van refuses to accelerate. It's so bad I've forbidden my wife from driving the van. So for the last 3+ weeks I've been driving Momma's Bento box (Toyota Corolla). Of course, the stealership has been unable to recreate the problem. Thankfully, the van did act up with the service advisor riding with us. He didn't have a scan tool hooked up though.
I left a message on a lawyer's machine. Hopefully he calls me back. Momma doesn't want to get a lawyer but you can be d@#n sure the stealership isn't going to have the service advisor represent them in arbitration.
My mother handled lemon law claims in PA for a number of years. She has told me that the laws vary state to state. But for the time being, your best choice of action is to (as much as you probable don't want to) keep taking it to the Kia dealership for them to fix the problem. After so many visits (remember it varies) w/o them taking care of the problem, the lemon laws activate and they MUST return your money. Depending on the issue, you will even get back more than was paid, especially if this is a known problem with that vehicle.
So I talked to the lawyer. He wasn't a very clear speaker on the phone but said we'd have to pay a $1500 retainer that we could get back from Kia. There's no way Momma would go for that. I guess I'm doomed to drive a POS and die in a fiery crash when a semi truck driver rear ends me because my Kia won't accelerate on the highway.
That's a bummer that your Sante Fe hasn't been fixed. Did you report it to the dealer during the first year of ownership? I'm pretty sure the lemon law in OK only applies to vehicles bought new.
Some of my coworkers also mentioned that a lemon law claim can be resolved without a lawyer. I'll call another 1 or 2 lawyers just to make sure they all charge a retainer. If they all do then Momma and I will have to decide if we leave it at the dealer indefinitely or proceed with the lemon law claim.
One thing's for sure, if we leave the Carnival at the dealer past 1 month I need to demand a courtesy car. The stealership advertises "courtesy cars for life" but I haven't pressed them on it yet. I learned from the first lawyer I spoke to that the 1 month rule is every business day but Sunday. So 30 days is March, 11th.
Read this, you can do it without an attorney. Lemon Law Guide
Theoretically anyone can represent themselves in even very complex legal matters. However, if by your statement, you mean he can “successfully” file the required formal legal pleadings, you are mistaken. In most states the amount involved will push the claim beyond the jurisdiction of a small claims court where things are oftentimes handled informally.
You won't find a lawyer that doesn't require a retainer fee. It's commonplace to get that money back, if and only if the case is won. You can ask for all legal fees to be paid in the claim. But if you lose, then you are responsible for the retainer and all the other time the lawyer has into it.
I would suggest staying the course. Whatever is wrong can be fixed. Get a dash cam and point it towards the gauges. Show them the vid once you have it. As a guy who used to fix cars, i can tell you these rando problems cause grey hairs for everyone who is involved.
I worked in the car business for sometime and in my experience it may be easier to see what the dealership is able to work out by trading it in on another vehicle. Even with the lemon law there will be some deduction for current mileage and wear and tear.
Jesse, I would suggest to start communicating IN WRITING when you talk to the dealership. Use texts or emails, whatever you end up doing that was stated as one of the first step to take in that lemon law link Eric provided. My experience is that whenever you are dealing with a product or service provider that something in writing supports whatever you end up doing in the future. As to the suggestion to try to deal with them on a trade basis, I support that. You are a formidable individual in stature, voice, and composure which can cause many people to become antagonisitic or at least defensive right off the bat and in this situation it can be to your disadvantage. Try very hard to be agreable and pleasant, take the wife too and ask what can be done to come to an amicable conclusion concering that car. I sure hope that this comes to a good conclusion soon for you. You may not remember the story about our '77 Ford Granada that was in my opinion a lemon; the first or second year for the variable venturi carb and it was terrible, the car never performed well when it was cold and had hard start-ups. Fortunately your grandfather had mercy on me and bought it from me by taking over the payments. Two months later he sold it to a little old lady in his church for pennies on the dollar and a trade of her '73 Chevy Caprice. She never drove it, it just sat in her garage gathering dust. I think he saved us years of misery.
We have had 3 KIA'S like this at our shop, SAME PROBLEM. Throttle bodys were bad. One of them also had a bad step up high pressure fuel pump failure.. Ask the dealer to ck there TSB'S ON THIS. Good luck with the lemon law, lot of time & patience...Some of our customers just plain give up.
Last edited by zl1 camaro; Mar 4, 2025 at 04:40 AM.
Ask the dealer to ck there TSB'S ON THIS. Good luck with the lemon law, lot of time & patience...Some of our customers just plain give up.
Good point. I mentioned to Momma that I was going to call a few more lawyers but I haven't made any calls yet this morning. I imagine I'll draft a letter and deliver it on March 11 with the following points.
Final notification of a needed repair.
I need a courtesy car if they're going to continue to troubleshoot the van.
Verification that their service advisor experienced the flat spot on a test drive with me and Momma.
Download of all indicated TSBs.
Explanation of the price of fuel for continued troubleshooting.
Complaint that they had the van 3 weeks and only drove it 60 miles.
Needed updates every week so I don't have to wait on hold for 10 minutes for their service department only to be disconnected.
Originally Posted by oldcutlass
Supposedly KIA has a huge recall due to piston ring issues on Seltos and Souls also.
Changing the oil requires 6.4 quarts with a new filter because the engine burns oil.
I'll call another 1 or 2 lawyers just to make sure they all charge a retainer. If they all do then Momma and I will have to decide if we leave it at the dealer indefinitely or proceed with the lemon law claim.
I don't understand the problem here. If you use the services of a lawyer, they do expect to be paid, and a retainer is a very common way to do it. They'll charge their time and all to the retainer, and if there is any of the retainer money left at the end, you'll get it back. If you'll get back as part of the settlement what you do spend of the retainer and thus will eventually be made whole again, I don't see the problem. Obviously you'll need some upfront money to pay the retainer. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you can afford a $35,000 minivan, it seems that coming up with a $1500 retainer shouldn't be too much of a burden, especially since the alternative is to live with a defective, unsafe to drive car.
But, as others have suggested, I would definitely check out the do-it-without-a-lawyer route first. These lemon laws are generally written to make it easy for the consumer to obtain relief, and that usually means, among other things, at no or low cost.
Call me old fashioned but buying a Kia seems like the first mistake here.
True, just not helpful at this stage.
My vote is: go through the process with the dealer and give them the opportunity to make it right. Call them frequently and record the calls or at least keep contemporaneous notes. At the same time, do as much research as you can re: lawyer retainer and lemon law claims.
If you need replacement transportation, get a Rent-a-Wreck or similar, or buy a beater. In any case, keep track of all expenses.
Ask any prospective legal counsel have they ever handled this type of claim in the past. I would say the chances of randomly finding a plaintiff’s counsel that has handled this type of matter are one in several hundred. Look for someone who offers their initial consultation with you for no cost. Many do.
Seconding what others have said about catching the problem on video. Not only to give them a realistic chance at finding the problem but you'll need proof to press any real legal claim if they don't fix it. Otherwise, it's your word against theirs and getting it wrong is very costly.
Honestly you're better off in the long term putting your 98 back into service as a daily driver. If given a fair chance (mechanical refresh, keep it out of a major accident) it will easily outlast anything being made today.
In your owner's manual (or in a supplement) should be information about how to deal with problems such as this.
Nearly all manufacturers use the BBB Autoline program as a third party arbitrator.
Follow the info provided by the manufacturer to help get things resolved, either with an effective repair or outright replacement or repurchase.
Most states provide the manufacturer with a 'final repair attempt'.
Following the manufacturers guidelines may not be the fastest, but going 'legal' at this point will likely take longer and be just as 'painful'.
Keep us posted.
I initiated the 1st step in the owner's manual towards arbitration by dropping a letter to the dealership general manager yesterday. I also dropped the spare seat from the middle row of the van. Later today I need to take them the extra set of keys and get all of our stuff out of the van (1st aid kit, breaker bar, bungees, etc.).
The 2nd step is informing Kia via. an 800 number. The 3rd step is arbitration through BBB Autoline as mentioned. If it goes further than that it would be a lemon law case and I would hire a lawyer.
I spoke to the manager. He urged me to strike a deal to swap out the Carnival for another Kia (Carnival or Telluride). If Momma and I want to wash our hands of this Kia we have to contact corporate Kia and wait weeks for them to send out an engineer to do an inspection.
For now they're having the fuel tested and checking the spark plugs. I was prepared to pay extra so they could have their techs test drive it often. Unfortunately, they've been dragging their feet and only drove it about 75 miles in the last month.
I went through the lemon law process with our 2005 Toyota Avalon. I did the required procedure and I sent Toyota the letter starting the process and I also sent the dealer a copy of the letter. The owner of the dealership called me and asked what would it take for us to be satisfied. I told him I want all of our money back. He asked me what we were going to buy to replace the Avalon and I said we liked the new 2007 Camry's. He told to pick out the color and options and he would give us the full purchase price of the Avalon and he would give us a great deal on the Camry. He did exactly what he said he would do and were very satisfied. It does make a difference in the dealer you do business with.
Did you ever have to go to arbitration to get the new Toyota Camry, or did you just get the deal from the owner?
The manager asked what my preference would be. I mentioned that my wife and I might want to wash our hands of the Kia Carnival. I should have bought a Toyota Highlander or Sequoia during the summer when we were shopping for new vehicles, but instead I did the responsible thing and bought a cheaper Carnival.
Did you ever have to go to arbitration to get the new Toyota Camry, or did you just get the deal from the owner?
The manager asked what my preference would be. I mentioned that my wife and I might want to wash our hands of the Kia Carnival. I should have bought a Toyota Highlander or Sequoia during the summer when we were shopping for new vehicles, but instead I did the responsible thing and bought a cheaper Carnival.
The dealer contacted me before Toyota got their letter. The dealer did the deal before it went to arbitration.
Toyota Customer Care will light an unholy fire under any dealership's *** if needed. They do not mess around.
Hyundai's and KIA's are like most Korean items; most of them work great, but some work horribly. Most Chinese stuff works horribly, but some works great. Japanese stuff works great, but your wallet will then work horribly.
Toyota Customer Care will light an unholy fire under any dealership's *** if needed. They do not mess around.
Hyundai's and KIA's are like most Korean items; most of them work great, but some work horribly. Most Chinese stuff works horribly, but some works great. Japanese stuff works great, but your wallet will then work horribly.
Hyundai's are one of those brands that used to be better than it is now, they've always had cheap interiors but they were very decent cars. That golden age from the late 2000s to early 2010s came to an end with their GDI engines in the mid 2010s, they have a bad reputation that in my experience is very well deserved.
I figured that the reputation for Kia's and Hyudais nowadays was better than it was at the beginning. @Oldsguy hada 92 Hyundai Excel that was a real POS. Maybe your right about them falling from grace recently. I've been reading about their dual-clutch transmission and I'm not to impressed. Plus, 12.3:1 compression in a minivan is asinine.
The stuff they do with variable valve timing is dumb. The idea is to use that to get high compression when needed, and only up to knocking. It is one of the Rube Goldberg Engine Tricks the oems use to meet regulations.
The government, and thus, the oems, want: High Economy, Low Emissions, High Horsepower at some point for their ads, and Reliability, in that order. Reliability is last because it only has to get out of warranty.
I want: Reliability, Torque, High Economy, Low Emissions, in that order. Thus, the newer the car, the less it applies to my needs.
