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While my Rocket 350 is in the machine shop (HALLELUJAH!) which is step 2, I am thinking of step 27, placing a 68 350 in a 1980 car. Already I have been told that I can just yank the computer as it has a separate harness and wire it up. Sounds easy enough, but I know it is not. I plan to keep the 1980 car harness as much as possible, so all I really need is a generic schematic of the ignition system wiring. I am retrofitting the stock points distributor, with an MD capacitive discharge system, an aftermarket coil that gives a bolt of lightning to the plugs. Of course I will be upgrading to the carbon wires and all the noise suppressors too, even the point set. Does anyone have, or can tell me where I can get a simple drawing from grounds, battery to ignition, starter and distributor including a tach? The rest of the car is wired and working fine so this is the only change I will be making in the wire. I will use the correct gauge copper wire and try to stay close to the colors so that the guy in 2070 can figure out what the Hell was done. Any help, as always is gladly accepted and appreciated.
The ECM has a separate harness, with the possible exception of the air conditioning compressor. The ignition will still be powered by a heavy pink wire, the starter will be triggered by a heavy purple wire, the factory gauges or warning lights are completely isolated from the ECM.
Im not very familiar with the 1980 ignition system, I’m not sure if there is any connection between the ignition module and ECM. If so, you should be able to remove it without having to cut anything. The cruise control has speedo cables (instead of a speed sensor) so no trouble there. The only issue may be with the transmission. If the car has the mighty 200C trans, it’s probably not going to last long behind a stout 350 engine. Look for a older TH350 without a lockup converter.
That should cover the major issues. Hope that helps
Thank you! I have placed it in my "stuff" folder for later review when I get to that point. I have a TH 350 now. The previous owner was going to swap in a SBC but had the BOP tranny. I do have concern for the rear end and the trans. The ratio is very tall. That is stage III in my build after the engine and interior, or sooner if I jump on it and it quits moving forward with a loud bang. It has the V6 pointless distributor and the coil is built in so I will have to figure the coil wires out. My thought was I should be able to duplicate the circuits of the 68 including the blocks, and relays.
Chuck, if you're going to repower that car, I'd recommend new harnesses. If you're going with new harnesses, there is no need to feel like you must adhere to any given year's schematic, just do best practices, since it's a custom car. A painless wiring harness may drop right in.
Chuck, if you're going to repower that car, I'd recommend new harnesses. If you're going with new harnesses, there is no need to feel like you must adhere to any given year's schematic, just do best practices, since it's a custom car. A painless wiring harness may drop right in.
Why? If the car is working today, why spend the money on a new harness? Swapping an Olds motor for an Olds motor means that the current wiring fits exactly. I guarantee that a "Painless" wire harness is anything but. They do not make a specific harness for a 1980 Olds, and any harness you buy will be a generic Chevy harness that still requires custom harness routing and connector termination. And as I pointed out, a 1980 Olds does not have a computer, but if it DID have CCC, that is a completely stand-alone harness that can be removed as a unit without affecting the main engine or forward light harnesses. The CCC harness on the 1981-1990 cars comes out through a grommet under the HVAC box on the passenger side of the firewall. It is unrelated to the rest of the wiring under the hood. This is how Olds built non-CCC cars in Canada without needing a completely different underhood harness.
Thank you! I will check it out. The current harness does not seem brittle or exposed, but I will give a thorough look. What I was hoping for was a simple fix to put wires where the 1980 El Camino did not have them because of the larger distributor which will not work with the Edelbrock intake. So I am going back to a points distributor and external coil and as I recall there is a pesky ground wire in the mix too. Once again, the rest of the wires to dash, lights and so forth work fine. The previous owner literally snipped all the wiring in the A/C and removed everything by the evaporator. I have the delete panel for that and since A/C is only need for 3.7 days in the summer, I will not go to the ridiculous expense of trying to gather the parts and get functioning A/C back.
I agree...harnesses are terribly expensive and require a man 20 years younger than me and 100 lbs less weight to get under the dash and rework. The simplest solution might be to go to an aftermarket distributor for a 1980 Olds V8 that simply plugs in, in place of the V6 one...maybe?
I agree...harnesses are terribly expensive and require a man 20 years younger than me and 100 lbs less weight to get under the dash and rework. The simplest solution might be to go to an aftermarket distributor for a 1980 Olds V8 that simply plugs in, in place of the V6 one...maybe?
I'm sorry, but I'm confused by several things you have written. First, which E-brock intake do you have? If it's a Performer or Performer RPM, the large body HEI fits just fine. Only the ancient OL4B will not accept the large distributor. Second, what are you looking to "plug in"? The HEI only requires one power wire to the BATT terminal on the cap. there are no other wires to plug in. If you convert to points, you will need to add a ballast resistor and a starter with a bypass terminal on the solenoid - your current wiring and ignition switch only has one power wire to the distributor, not two as required by points. You also realize that the Olds distributor is different from the Chevy one, right?
Okay the confusion is understandable. Here is the quick version. I have a complete 1968 350 to replace the 1980 Buick V6 in my El Camino. Without having to buy a new distributor, I would like to retrofit the '68 distributor for the engine into the 1980 car I have, and I need the ABC's of getting it wired up so that it gives my spark plugs something to do. I particularly don't want a GM HEI if I can avoid it and I think I can if I get the wires right for power and ground to the coil and distributor. Maybe I am not describing it well but I know in my head with a 1968 Schematic I can accomplish it without a whole bin of new and expensive parts, which seems to be the current level of mechanic...REPLACE IT WITH NEW STUFF, no expense should be spared! I'm on a shrinking budget and the Machine work alone blew 85% of my budget.
You do realize you will need different frame pads, motor mounts, radiator, accessory brackets, etc, etc, right? Nothing from the Buick (and that is a Buick and not a Chevy V6, right?) will work. You'll need to run a ballast resistor to the points coil and use the starter solenoid that has the "R" bypass terminal in addition to the "S" start terminal. The bypass will provide full 12V to the coil for starting. The Olds frame pads look like this. You'll need Anchor 2328 motor mounts to mate with them.
Joe, didn't some 1980 cars get the first CCC system? One of the guys in Mid Atlantic had a 1980 Supreme back in early 90s that the thing failed on and got the converter so hot it almost lit the car off. It did trace back to alternator failure and, though the car still ran, there wasn't enough voltage to power it.
He got rid of it quick like he did most cars that gave the slightest hint of trouble. He liked owning and driving old cars but didn't like working on them or spending any money on them.
Joe, didn't some 1980 cars get the first CCC system? One of the guys in Mid Atlantic had a 1980 Supreme back in early 90s that the thing failed on and got the converter so hot it almost lit the car off. It did trace back to alternator failure and, though the car still ran, there wasn't enough voltage to power it.
He got rid of it quick like he did most cars that gave the slightest hint of trouble. He liked owning and driving old cars but didn't like working on them or spending any money on them.
Glenn,
GM says the 1981 model year was the first, however...
I found this from a Hemmings article. I'm skeptical of non-factory sources, but it somewhat corroborates your post:
Some 1980 models had a precursor to this design, but it was only applied to certain engines, and predominantly in California. The limited-production 1980 system was called C4, for Computer Controlled Catalytic Converter. But that was too similar to the name of a Ford transmission (C-4, with a hyphen). So for 1981 and the system's rollout across the entire GM product line, it was renamed CCC or 3C, for Computer Command Control. The system was employed with an electronically controlled carburetor.
In any case, after some prying, we've finally found that the OP is actually talking about a 1980 ElCamino with a Buick V6. I have no experience with those and have no idea if they would have computer controls or not.
It turns out that the C4 system was first used on the 1979 Iron Duke, then expanded on selected Calif models for 1980. I also found the cover to this book, which suggests that the system may have been installed on that ElCo, but again the OP has not been terribly informative.
Well, a little more digging finds this 1980 Chevy supplement. I've also found that 49-state ElCos got the Chevy 229 V6, while Calif ElCos got the Buick 231.
Yes I was aware of all that. The previous owner had started through some of this with Buick to Chevy and it was too complex. I appreciate the heads-up though. I am certain I am going to find all sorts of gremlins in this. My Dad used to say the only way to do an engine swap is with both cars side by side because you need parts from both to do it.
BTW Unless Chevy put its Distributor on the front, it's a Buick. I always used to say Chev, Cad and Olds on the back, Buick on the front and who cares about Pontiac?
Last edited by Chuck Cole; January 31st, 2019 at 03:34 PM.
Reason: add
BTW Unless Chevy put its Distributor on the front, it's a Buick. I always used to say Chev, Cad and Olds on the back, Buick on the front and who cares about Pontiac?
From what I've seen, the Buford was only installed in ElCos for Calif. I'm guessing that's where yours started life? Does it actually have the early version of the C4 system on it?
I have to assume it migrated to Washington from California as so many have because there is absolutely no rust and the dash is bad, dried and cracked. It does have a computer, located on the passenger side kickplate. The carb was an odd shaped on with some electric circuit that makes adjusting it almost impossible, hence the Buick boat anchor designation. It idles so rich I cannot stay in it but is getting around 22 mpg with its 120 hp
January 30th, 2019, 02:41 PM
which is step 2, I am thinking of step 27, placing a 68 350 in a 1980 car. Already I have been told that I can just yank the computer as it has a separate harness and wire it up. Sounds easy enough, but I know it is not. I plan to keep the 1980 car harness as much as possible, so all I really need is a generic schematic of the ignition system wiring. I am retrofitting the stock points distributor, with an MD capacitive discharge system, an aftermarket coil that gives a bolt of lightning to the plugs. Of course I will be upgrading to the carbon wires and all the noise suppressors too, even the point set. Does anyone have, or can tell me where I can get a simple drawing from grounds, battery to ignition, starter and distributor including a tach? The rest of the car is wired and working fine so this is the only change I will be making in the wire. I will use the correct gauge copper wire and try to stay close to the colors so that the guy in 2070 can figure out what the Hell was done. Any help, as always is gladly accepted and appreciated.
It has the V6 pointless distributor and the coil is built in so I will have to figure the coil wires out. My thought was I should be able to duplicate the circuits of the 68 including the blocks, and relays.
