rcdynamic88

I managed to get into an accident with my 1964 Cutlass/442 and I have no idea how the insurance process works. In 40+ years of having custom/classic cars I have never done this before. I have so called "Full Coverage" on the car through my State Farm agent. There is a partial lien on the car, I paid $25K for it and financed $15K. State Farm took pictures of the car when I added it to my policy. I made a point of telling my agent that I wanted to be able to drive this car a lot. Since I have another Olds insured as a "Historical" vehicle, which here in Michigan means you are only supposed to be driving it if you are on the way to or from an event. I wanted real daily driver insurance on the 442.

I will be calling the agent tomorrow to inform them of the accident. I know there has to be someone here on classicoldsmobile.com that has had to go through this. Personally, I think the car is very fixable. I messed up the front clip. I don't believe the frame is bent, it wasn't a sideways bash me around thing. I just mushed the front end straight in.

My friends think that State Farm will call it a total loss just because the car is 54 years old. They won't be able to estimate the cost to fix it because there is no way for them to know the cost of replacement parts. If that is the case, do I automatically get an opportunity to "buy back" my Cutlass and try to fix it myself? Will they only pay off the lien? How will they determine what my 442 was worth? Is it based on what I paid for it last year?
OMG, I have never wished so hard that something like this didn't happen! I had the car towed to my own driveway. I have to see it starring me in the face every time I come home. Its only been two days and it fells like an eternity.

flatoz

Sorry for your loss.


Firstly let me say I know nothing on the US insurance system, but one thing that was clear to me on reading your post is that you don't seem to know what you're actually covered for.


Can I suggest that when you call your agent that you find out what your other car is covered for in the instance that you had the same bingle.



My cars are covered by a specialty insurer ( think like Hagerty's) and I know what I'm entitled to if there is an accident.



I'm sure if you look at your policy booklet or on line it will tell you. I don't trust insurance companies, but understand you have to have it. But I feel that a person who doesn't know what they are entitled to with their cover will be the one who has the wool pulled over their eyes.


I wish you the best and hope it all works out.

1970cs

Bummer! Sorry for your troubles. I have both of mine under classic insurance, but one has the historical plate. I still drive that when and where I want. Did you have some sort of appraised value?

I have a couple of very small claims with classics, less than $400 each. Paid with no issues.

Pat

Carshinebob

I've helped customers through this process here in Michigan hundreds of times. Call me If you need advice, My phone # is in my signature. ~BOB

joe_padavano

It works like this: The insurance company will screw you.




That makes it even worse. The insurance company will likely total the car (as your friends have suggested) and assign just enough value to pay off the note. You'll likely get nothing unless you have a declared value policy.




^^^THIS. Again, it all depends on exactly what coverage you have, but a daily driver policy will not be a declared value policy.




Yes, at salvage value. Of course, that means that the title will now be marked "salvage" and it will be recorded that the car was totaled. This will likely make it difficult to get collision/comprehensive coverage on the rebuilt car. State Farm will not pay for a car twice.




Value will be based on KBB or whatever database they have that gives them the lowest number. You should arm yourself with whatever value comps you can get - NADA, auction sale actuals, etc. Unfortunately it's too late to get an appraisal, but you might want to talk to an appraisal company like AAG for value comps. Expect to fight this with the insurer.

oldcutlass

You are at the mercy of the insurance company without an Agreed Value policy. The ACV actual cash value will be based on the combination of a computer program and smoke and mirrors. I doubt you will even see the payoff. KBB, NADA, or any other figures do not apply. Good luck, I hope you do better.

droptopron

IIRC State Farm is a reseller (or a broker) for Hagerty. I'm not positive that is the case. If it is, Hagerty was more than fair with me when I had a claim last year and my rates didn't go up. Do you recall agreeing to a value for the car? If not, I can see this getting dicey really fast. What you paid last year really has no bearing on what the ins co will value the car at now (in their eyes). If things don't go the way you want, you can get an appraiser to value the car and appeal their decision but that will take time & money. If you know who you want to fix the car you might be better off getting the car out of your driveway and into their hands and let them deal with it.

joe_padavano

State Farm may be a reseller for Haggerty, but Haggerty does not write any policies for daily driver use. If this policy really is daily driver, it is not Haggerty.

lgdriggers

Don't know about your state, but if it is totaled and you buy back, you might can change to a rebuilt title if you submit the repair information. Keep track of parts replaced with vin of donor car if possible. I had my classic insured with American National...it wasnt expensive $99 for a 74 porsche 911....you could drive it 10,000 miles a year. Run a body shop, don't know what happened to State Farm, they used to be good , now I'd rate them below Allstate for paying. Good Luck

oddball

KEEP NOTES OF EVERY CONVERSATION. Keep ever correspondence you've had with State Farm.


My friend had a stated value policy with SF for his Chevelle. Then he got in a wreck, filed a claim, they said "Oh, you never actually had stated value coverage, underwriting never approved it, here's $1,000 have a nice day." It took a lot of time and contacting the state Insurance board, but he eventually got it covered.


It all depends on the details of your coverage and how much of it is in writing. And how much time you want to invest fighting them.


The cost is easy - they have estimators that are OK for modern cars, but old stuff usually you get quotes from three shops and they pick the cheapest and you haggle from there. That's not the problem. The problem is what value SF will assign to the car.

D. Yaros

I suspect this is going to be a saga, and a saga from which we all may be able to learn a thing or two.

I sure hope rcdynamic88 keeps us in the loop as this claim progresses through processing cycle.

Jamesbo

FWIW, I bought back my totaled 69 H/O without any title transfer [because it was mine] simply deducted the salvage value from the agreed upon price and the title wasn't "tarnished." Eventually it made it's way to BJ

jaunty75

I think we've already learned a thing or two. The thing we've learned is...don't use your valuable collector car as a daily driver. Or, at least, don't insure it that way.

tru-blue 442

I was able to do this with my work truck after a bad hail storm in 08.
As far as the title work goes anyway.
The only thing is you can only carry liability ins. after.

dc2x4drvr

I paid a small premium upgrade with Hagerty, so if my car is totaled out, I get the salvage.

68442

You either have a collector car policy or you don't. You do not have a collector car policy by your description. It is over, you will get book value( In terms of a used car not a collector car) not an agreed value policy and they will total it. They are under no obligation to pay a lien, that will still be on you.

bccan

Not saying anyone is wrong here but you won’t have any idea what your coverage is until you talk to your agent or find your policy & interpret it. Even then the insurer may engage in shenanigans, or not. Depends on the coverage & how the car will be valued under that coverage. If you have appraised or agreed value things may go well, if they use NADA Classic & Collector you may be ok. If they are to determine the value it’s a total crapshoot. If that is the case have them specifically spell out how & where they determine ACV (Actual Cash Value) & start doing research accordingly from your end so you can evaluate their end when they present it.

Your agent should be able to give you an idea of how the process will likely go, that’s his duty to you & partly why he/she earns a commission & has incentive to earn your future business.

Try to work in a positive manner unless or until it becomes time to fight IF you have a leg to stand on. Don’t go in spoiling for a fight but be prepared for one with facts, figures, auction results, even For Sale ad values.

I wish you good fortune & hope you have sufficient & proper coverage to find a happy ending for an unfortunate situation.

Checking in w/ Carshine Bob can’t be a bad idea as he may have some info that may help.

junior supercar

I believe Joe P is about the closest to what will happen. having had (key word, I'll get to that later) State Farm for my classic with an agreed value, I elected not to go through insurance. Actually the guy who caused the issue paid out of pocket (long story) but I went through **** with SF before, after their corporate office decided to just randomly reduce the agreed upon value on my policy. 6 months later they corrected their issue, thankfully nothing happened during that time. After getting the latest issue sorted it, I IMMEDIATELY dumped SF for my classics and went to Hagerty (I've heard great things and have a few friends with classics who had to file claims with hagerty, all great experiences). I still have SF for my daily drivers, but would NOT use them for a classic unless you are on top of every little detail with them.
If you have the option to not go through insurance, that might be best. Then get rid of SF for your classic.

Koda

Ask state farm to kiss you, since it sounds like you're going to have sex, unfortunately.

droldsmorland

How about a pic or two? We can tell you if its just some sheet metal and paint or more...at least an educated guess from a pic. You might be better off fixing it yourself. Tell the daily car insurance co to go suck lemons then get classic insurance after its repaired.
But let's give the ins company a chance before tossing them under the bus...although I see it coming down the street, pucker up???

cherokeepeople

ok heres my take on this .current NADA guide LOW value of a 64 442 is 21,500 high is 52,000.my last accident what they did is look at recent sales of vehicle like you have,in my case it was a tdi jetta with 600,000 miles.i got hit light in the front end and needed a bumper cover grille and hood,they totaled the car and offered me 5800,4800 if i kept the car,which i did and title did not go to a salvage as it never left my possesion,and i also still had full coverage on it.BUT if i ever had another claim with state farm"the company of the guy that hit me"they would pay a diminished value.sooo IF they try to go off recent sales of 64 442's in your state they are probably gonna come up with none.this will work in your favor.

as stated ins companies work for their shareholders they could care less about you so until you are satisfied with what they will give you DO NOT sign anything.stand your ground.

redoldsman

If you pledged the car as collateral on the loan, the bank will be paid first. There is probably a loss payee clause on your insurance policy listing the bank as the lien holder. State Farm will pay direct to the lien holder who will then release the lien recorded on the title.

rcdynamic88

First let me say thanks for most of the information and comments. My personal agent is on vacation of course, so I only got to talk to the partner thats taking his messages. He said it was on me to take the car to one of 5 body shops on some authorized list to get a repair appraisal. I told him it can't be driven, he said I would have to have it towed. Oh Boy already. Then he told me to contact the Claims Dept...

So the Claims Dept has a different answer, says they will send out an adjuster to check out the car on Thursday afternoon. I wanted to start tearing it apart, but I can't touch it until they look at it.

I am already preparing to just not even bother filling the claim if they are going to give me the run around like many of you expect. I will simply fix it myself and they will lose a 10+ year customer that has 6 autos, 2 trailers, my home and my vacation property insured through them. Shopping for insurance is like going to the dentist, I hate it, but I will do it when it has to be done.

I will let you know what happens when the adjuster stops by to look it over, and I will try to post some pics of the car.

Let me also say thanks to the CO members that have answered another post I have looking for parts to fix my 64. I should be on my way to pick up the stuff instead of waiting around to get screwed.

P.S. - Joe P. , I really like the way you sort out your answers, and you always make good common sense. A handy guy to have around...

Koda

Remember, though, YOU choose the body shop. Not them. They have ones they want you to use, and maybe they will only pay the cheap guy's rate, but you choose.

I got hit in 2010 in my then 3 year old truck. I got his info, called them, made the claim, then went to the local dealer, found their body shop, went there, and rented a car. I made sure the body guy knew he was dealing with me, not the insurance company, and I would pay him, and the ins co would reimburse me. The ins co was all about giving me a list of their shops until I told them I was using the local Toyota dealer's body shop.

They also tried jacking me around with aftermarket replacement parts. Moron agent did not understand what a service replacement part was. I gave him the full fury over the phone, and impressed some coworkers.

redoldsman

Since we have no pictures of the car, we have no idea of the quality of the restoration. A typical body shop makes their money from insurance claims which means they get cars out quickly. You should check out whatever body shop you use and use a restoration shop if possible. You should get over being pissed off at State Farm and get whatever you can get out of them. If you just walk away they win.

droptopron

The ins co always tries to get you to use "their" guy but at least in NYS the law is you take your car to a shop of your choosing

jaunty75

I have never had this happen in 40+ years of driving cars and dealing with accidents of my own or my children's. I have always been told that I can use whatever body shop I want.

A few other things I've experienced in dealing with accident claims:

The insurance company has always sent out their own appraiser to look at the damage and come up with a repair dollar amount.

In every instance, I have taken the estimate from the insurance company to my favorite body shop, and they have always been willing to do the job for the amount of the insurance company estimate. I have never had to go around on my own and get multiple estimates from multiple body shops. Nor have I ever been told that I had to use a particular body shop or choose from among a list of body shops that the insurance company gave me.

In short, I have never experienced any of the horror stories people describe above. Yes, insurance companies are responsible to their shareholders. But they're also respsonsible to their customers if they want to keep the ones they have and get more.

joe_padavano

Count yourself lucky. We're still dealing with the insurance company from a year ago when my wife got rear ended in the blue 1985 D88. Clearly the other person's fault, but good luck with getting resolution. Fortunately the car wasn't badly damaged - mainly bent bumper shocks and a shattered filler panel - but even getting coverage for my wife's medical bills for her neck has been a chore. Yes, this was daily driver coverage, not collector coverage. Once again, discussion of companies like Haggerty is moot in this thread. Haggerty does not write daily driver policies, period. I specifically asked about this for my 67 Delta and was told "no".

jaunty75

We've been fortunate in that none of the accidents have involved injury. They've all been minor fender-benders.

RetroRanger

My experience is similar to CP, also w a Jetta!!

Car was totaled, on a Replacement value policy, ( which you may have)

They offered $ on the low end of the value range, I refused and provided them w for sale ads asserting the value was at the high end of the scale.

We agreed on a $ amount mid range, after a little back n forth.

I kept the car w an owner retained titled ( similar to salvage but no state inspection to allow it back on the road.

I drove the car another 2 years after repairing it then sold it private sale!

If you told your INSCO you wanted to insure to drive, you should get replacement value...

Good luck and post back what happens

rcdynamic88

Things have been moving kind of slow on the Insurance portion of this whole deal, although they are assuring me they are going to fix my car. The State Farm adjuster that came to look at the car was limited as to what damage could be seen. So the initial amount that I was told I was going to get was lower than I hoped.

I am finally having the car taken to a collision shop on Monday, and State Farm says the claim is still open. If more damage is found, and the shops estimate is higher, they will still fix the car. They say that me being happy with the result is their goal, not trying to give me the runaround.

I wish I flat out new how much they are willing to spend before they say its not worth it to fix it. Evidently the pictures the adjuster took of the car impressed someone back at the claims dept. This is a no rust ever, "so nice you can eat off the bottom of it" 64 442. This thing has a perfect black interior, 4 speed console, etc. its just an extremely clean car.

It will feel good to get the car out of my garage and to a shop to get things started, perhaps I saved a little cash by disassembling the front end for them!

oldolds88

ive had very good luck with st farm on my dds. I get to choose my shop,or do it myself. they always include a rider in case it costs more, they will cover it.id like to ask ric,what shop are you using? and who is your adjuster

Onit