When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
So I have a chance to pick up a 72 Cutlass convertible, needs a ton of work but is a good driver at a fair price. Was going to get it to work on it with my teenage girls. Issue I have is they will of course want to drive it. Nice thing is not being one of my W30s and needing body work I won't mind and actually will enjoy them driving it.
My huge concern is safety. I know its a heavy car with plenty of steel around them. But it only has lap belts, it does have power steering and power disk brakes, but no traction control, no ABS and of course no airbags. Am I crazy for getting them this car? Is it a death trap? I told them no highway just local city driving, but ultimately I can't control a drunk going 60mph in a 30 mph speed zone. I was all set to buy it, my wife is understandably concerned and now she rightfully has me second guessing.
Any dad's out there with some good perspective.
And please, I know many of us learned to drive on a 3-speed with one side view mirror and holes in the floorboards with Schlitz cans as exhaust pipes but I'm not looking for those kind of references, time change, safety increases. I can't control everything but just wondering about this decision as a dad.
I would look at a nice Camry or Accord, they will be much safer and easier for them to drive. I know that I would never let my daughter drive one of my (classic) cars as a daily. It's not just safety issue, it's reliability as well, I would hate for her to be stranded on the side of the road.
But that's just me.
My girls are still young (8 and 2); however, they do like riding in my Oldsmobile. My wife knows I drive responsibly and we are generally driving around in town.
Classic Oldsmobiles aren't as safe as modern cars, but if driven responsibly there is no reason to worry. Besides, there's always a safer car out there. If everyone wanted the safest car around there would only be $80k Mercedes and BMW sedans on the road.
To please your wife you might consider installing aftermarket 3 point harnesses in the front.
If its on the shabby side they may not want to drive it....kids today... If it were me I would first go over all the potential breakdown/trouble areas like brake lines, hoses and the like to be sure they are good. Then the driving would be limited to closer distance driving with limited highway jaunts to keep speeds down. I would not deny them the experience of tooling around in an old Olds conv.
They have already seen the car. To my surprise they love it even in the condition it is in. Their quote "Daddy can we at least clean it or do we have to leave it dusty like that" It needs body work, but brand new radiator, hoses, belts, car runs smooth. Brand new tires, brakes are fine. First thing I do is drop it off at my mechanic make sure its safe and replace points with petronix. Then get top fixed and maybe replace seat belts as suggested. It has AC and PDBs and PS that's it, so a simple fun car.
I don't even have to worry about matching numbers, I won't ruin it but heck i can put a 442 bumper on it and not worry, change the interior from black to white and not worry. I love my W30s but it will be nice not to feel so compelled to be such a purist.
I don't see an issue, I mean how did we live through our own childhoods and these cars. Things to think about:
*Insurance, it will be basically liability only because of their age.
*How nice do you want to make it knowing it will be parked at school, stores, public functions, etc... Remember its not if they will put scratches on it, they will.
*The safety aspects of the car are based on the skills you teach them and the maturity for them to be responsible drivers.
*How do you address a breakdown, who to call.
I don't see an issue, I mean how did we live through our own childhoods and these cars. Things to think about:
*Insurance, it will be basically liability only because of their age.
Yes, or because its a relative beater I don't need to worry about comprehensive
Originally Posted by oldcutlass
*How nice do you want to make it knowing it will be parked at school, stores, public functions, etc... Remember its not if they will put scratches on it, they will.
That's the point they can enjoy it as is and we can work on it little by little. In 5 years it gets redone and then becomes another weekend only car
Originally Posted by oldcutlass
*The safety aspects of the car are based on the skills you teach them and the maturity for them to be responsible drivers.
knock on wood - they are pretty good, the 2nd child is 21, no accidents the twins have been driving for 2 years, no accidents either.
Originally Posted by oldcutlass
*How do you address a breakdown, who to call.
Me or AAA. We live right outside Chicago, a pretty dense town but only a few square miles. They can go many places only .5 - 1 mile away.
I say grab it & let them enjoy it on a pleasure basis. What great memories they will have & it will instill a love for your other car even more. But like you said, I would make sure it is as safe as can be first. The odds of them being in an accident while in a driver would be higher than while driving a nice day car.
I'd say go for it, just install the three point belts and other initiatives suggested by previous posters. The size of the car in regards to all that metal around them is just an illusion though...some of the newer and smaller cars are much better engineered for crumple zones and engine break away, etc.
Of course I envisioned traction control and airbags in my daughter's first car. Instead she's rolling a '94 Tercel sporting some patina. And she loves it...or at least loves the freedom.
My youngest daughter (not yet driving) used the lack of airbag argument to convince me that my '62 Baja Beetle should be her first car. Teach them safe habits and things can't be any worse than when we were young and our classmates had Pintos and Vegas with V8s under the hood.
While these are your children and it's your call, I am strongly opposed to the "live in a bubble" philosophy. Shoulder belts were optionally available in GM cars since 1966, even in convertibles. You can install them in yours. As for the rest, every car I drive has anti-lock brakes and traction control. It's called my right foot.
Rather than rely on electronic nannyism, TEACH your kids how to drive. Teach them how to feel incipient lockup and to modulate the brake pedal accordingly. Teach them defensive driving instead of simply hanging on and running into things. Teach them to anticipate the bonehead maneuver that the other driver will do and have a backup plan.
Sorry guys, but I don't agree with you at all.
I understand your guys opinion when you say how did we survive,but you gotta realize that some didn't, those are not here to share their side of the story. Also what choice did we have?? Plenty of options now.
I love these cars as much as the next guy, but I've been in a crash, my 65 Impala got t-boned at probably 40mph, it wasnt pretty. These cars are coffins on wheels, they are not build to take an impact and they fold like a tin can.
If, god forbid, something happens to my child, that could've been prevented by an Air bag or other safety feature that I choose not to get I wouldn't be able to go on with my life knowing that.
It's not about living in a bubble it's about protecting them from stuff that I can control, some of the things are out of my control like other drivers. That's why I feel much better knowing that my kid is in a car equipped with safety features.
I gamble with my life quite often, I refuse to gamble with theirs. if I could buy them Abrams as their first car, I would.
many may disagree but that's JMO, carry on.
Last edited by 70cutty; January 27th, 2017 at 01:00 PM.
IMO the most dangerous part of any car is a driver not knowing what to expect. It doesn't stop like a new car? Teach them to allow themselves more room to stop & more room between themselves & the other cars. It doesn't handle like a new car? Teach them to slow down around corners. If they have enthusiasm for this hobby let them enjoy it. As you said, it will mostly be around town.
I love these cars as much as the next guy, but I've been in a crash, my 65 Impala got t-boned at probably 40mph, it wasnt pretty. These cars are coffins on wheels, they are not build to take an impact and they fold like a tin can.
There is a BIG difference between a 1965 model year car and a 1972 in terms of safety. The 1972 has side impact beams in the doors, reinforced latches, padded interior, collapsible steering column, crumple zone front fenders, and other safety equipment that was NOT available on your 65. There was a quantum leap in crashworthiness from the mid-60s to the early 70s.
However, it is STILL better to anticipate and AVOID the accident. I realize that is not always possible, but you'd be amazed at the number of times that it IS possible and drivers just freeze instead.
I think as long as they recognize the difference of a older car compared to a newer one and drive it accordingly it will be fine. You have to judge how responsible they are. I also think it will make them better drivers instead of depending on the higher tech stuff of anti-lock brakes, lane warnings, auto brake etc. I believe the new tech is creating a generation that will have to have all that stuff instead of relying on common sense and skill.
I wonder how many are driving their new vehicle at speed towards a wall just to test auto-brake. I would have when I was younger.
There is a BIG difference between a 1965 model year car and a 1972 in terms of safety. The 1972 has side impact beams in the doors, reinforced latches, padded interior, collapsible steering column, crumple zone front fenders, and other safety equipment that was NOT available on your 65. There was a quantum leap in crashworthiness from the mid-60s to the early 70s.
However, it is STILL better to anticipate and AVOID the accident. I realize that is not always possible, but you'd be amazed at the number of times that it IS possible and drivers just freeze instead.
Can you imagine the difference between 1972 and 2017?
I don't know lately with all the recalls, the airbags are a bigger threat than the accident itself. With the electroncs in these later model hoopties failing, sometimes I think they are on an even keel to our older cars.
I'm not a fan of coddling children. Do you tell your 8-year-old he can't climb the fence because he might fall off? Do you tell your teen he can't join the football team? Do you tell him he can't get a job in a restaurant because he might get burned? Do you tell your daughter she can't go boating with friends because she might drown or get hit by a drunk boater? (Trust me, there's lots more drunks on the water than on the roads.) Do you tell you kid they can't have a classic car? Where does it end? I think that being over-protective does your children a great disservice. Fine, they make it to adulthood alive; but what kind of adult have you created?
Wow, thanks for all the great perspectives insights and reflections. I'm all over the board with this as in some ways I'm like 70cutty, other ways I'm like really let them enjoy the mode of transportation. To too many people its only a mode to get you from point A to point B, to me its an adventure going down the block to the drug store.
I also was thinking, heck I let them take the EL (with a group of kids) from my village through the west side of Chicago. You know how much I could worry myself over that if I could think of all that could go wrong iver those 7 miles to the loop.
Their smiles say it all !! Not sure how much I'll let them drive it but I think its a great start to get them enthused about cars more than a simple mode of transportation. I'll start a new thread shortly with a thorough description and my initial plans.
FYI, this is the first non 455 I have owned in over 30 years, man it is smooth and easy to drive.
Fantastic You are passing on an interest in old cars. Since you are up north, get them on a snow covered empty parking lot to learn about traction in a rear wheel, no anti-lock car.
Fantastic You are passing on an interest in old cars. Since you are up north, get them on a snow covered empty parking lot to learn about traction in a rear wheel, no anti-lock car.
^^^THIS. When I got my first car, we'd go to the high school parking lot after a light snow and do donuts. This actually accomplished several things. First, it was a great way to get a feel for how the car reacted as the back end got loose, so you didn't freak out. Second, you got to know how the car felt JUST BEFORE the back end broke loose, which gives you time to both prepare and potentially do something about it. Third, you got to practice counter-steering to get out of the spin. This practice saved my butt on many occasions during my time driving in MA in the winter. It also helped as I got higher powered cars driving in the rain - or even on dry pavement.
^^^THIS. When I got my first car, we'd go to the high school parking lot after a light snow and do donuts. This actually accomplished several things. First, it was a great way to get a feel for how the car reacted as the back end got loose, so you didn't freak out. Second, you got to know how the car felt JUST BEFORE the back end broke loose, which gives you time to both prepare and potentially do something about it. Third, you got to practice counter-steering to get out of the spin. This practice saved my butt on many occasions during my time driving in MA in the winter. It also helped as I got higher powered cars driving in the rain - or even on dry pavement.
Not to mention its just plain fun. Congrats on the choice, now it needs some wheels to start.
They do look very happy in the car. Jmo I would put some Hotchkis springs and shocks in it to help with the handling, replace the gas tank and lines. Maybe even the brake lines and a quick ratio steering box. Today's phone use while driving means you need tight steering. Electronic instead of points. Three point seat belts. An air pump to air up flats so they can get to a safe location to get the tire changed and a more useable jack than the bumper one in case they have to change it. A boatload of pepper spray just in case. It's not that I'm overprotective---ok...I am.😳
PS is that car a high jack risk in your area?
Last edited by Gary M; January 27th, 2017 at 05:10 PM.
I have 3 children of my own so I can appreciate your concern as well as many of the other members. Some times we can get to a point of over protection. Like yourself, I'd be devastated if I had to deal with the loss of a child. I'd make my decision on the child's behavior. What I mean is if you were to believe the individual could become reckless then I'd sway from the Cutlass, due to the power of the drivetrain, not the safety concerns.
My second Cutlass was a 71 Convertible. I lost this car in a head on collision. I was doing roughly 35 MPH and the car that made the left into my grill was doing better than 20. The bumper stopped when it hit the water pump, both sides of the chassis in the front towed in. I had no seat belt and barley got rattled. Got out of the car extremely pissed, but un-harmed. My 442, long before I owned it took a side hit which crumpled the rear seat frame and destroyed the drives side door, but the owner was un-harmed. My friend had a 69' that he took a serious T-bone hit with, totaling out that ride. He was shaken up but no injuries. And last, my brother had a 69' 442 that was hit in the rear pretty hard on the NJ Turnpike, again he & his passengers were un-harmed. The 2 69's were hard tops. I'm sure someone can pull up statistics to challenge my experiences, but, personally I do not live by statistics. These cars can take a pretty good hit and protect the passengers. One more that I can remember, 442Klonekilr had a 71 vert that he parted out a few years back. He was out with his daughters and swerved to miss a deer. He wound up sliding in the mud and a tree drove the passenger fender and chassis into a 60 degree angle and everyone was ok. Not trying to sound like a jerk, just giving you some other perspectives.
My son want's my Cutlass if & when I get my 442 back on the road, but I'd be skeptical with him. I'd rather he drove something with 35 HP. Although he doesn't drive yet the boy has 2 speeds, on and more on. I guess there's something to be said about hereditary traits. The girls, to early to tell, but if they were mechanical and level headed enough to handle the responsibility that comes along with these cars I'd have no problem with them driving it.
As a NYC Fireman, working opposite the expressway for almost 20 years now, I've seen my share of accidents and removed many people from vehicles. Granted, these cars were not common on the road in my tenure, but the "safety" vehicles where. While there is no comparison to the design of todays cars, I still feel just as safe in my Cutlass as long as it didn't roll. My biggest fear is getting hit and not being able to get the parts to fix it.
As someone stated in this post $80 to $120,000 BMW or Benze's would be the smart choice for safety. I will not tell you of the most tragic accident I've experienced, but the most impressive was a Mercedes. A Dodge van came over the divider from the opposite direction and hit the Mercedes mid air T-bone style. Hit it just above the door handles. The driver, in his 60's was cut from the glass but, otherwise fine and refused medical attention. His passenger wife, although shaken, never touched. There was no doubt in any of our minds any other car and it would have been a recovery.
I bought my Cutlass to go on trips and long drives with the kids while they are still young enough to want to be around me and my better half and have no reserves in doing so. That was our decision. I'm not sure if this assists you, but in the end it is you and your wife's decision and I'm sure everyone will respect that.
Last edited by zeeke; January 27th, 2017 at 05:35 PM.
Reason: Separate paragraphs
Yes it's turned into a great thread! I have my 16 year old step son in a 20 year old rear wheel drive manual trans truck (his choice) bonus sides of manual is no phone usage and theft deterrent. I also encouraged this. But he would much rather be in old school oldsmobile. I have my eye on a low mileage 76 98 sedan for mid 2k range with only small rust spot on the deck lid.
The daily drivers are a couple of years old. I really like the blue tooth, XM, safety features, power everything and the great performance with good MPG.
I do know that the electronics will be a problem down the road. The boy learned that when you don't tighten your battery connections (he added something to the battery terminals for power) and went down a dirt road. Rattled so bad that is spiked the ECM and fried it! His truck, but my bill???? He will be paying me back. Some where in the back of my mind, I paid for my own cars and repairs! Worked two jobs and played football to boot!
I say let them drive the cutlass, they will certainly be the envy of any car guy or girl at their school. I can hear it now, what is that? It's Oldsmobile! What the heck is an Oldsmobile?
Pat
Last edited by 1970cs; January 27th, 2017 at 05:52 PM.
All you can do is make the car safe and easy to handle as possible by updating steering, braking and suspension , stress the importance of preventing distracted driving and let them enjoy it. I lost my first love on her way back from college. A man had a heart attack and hit them head on. There were no cell phones back then so that had no influence in the crash. In your favor most girls are more conservative when they drive. Seeing the smiles on their faces I dought I could deny them that car. It hopefully will be a great memory they will charish for life. Only you know the right decision and will make the best one.
I know its a heavy car with plenty of steel around them. But it only has lap belts, it does have power steering and power disk brakes, but no traction control, no ABS and of course no airbags. Am I crazy for getting them this car? Is it a death trap? I told them no highway just local city driving, but ultimately I can't control a drunk going 60mph in a 30 mph speed zone. I was all set to buy it, my wife is understandably concerned and now she rightfully has me second guessing.
Aw, c'mon. It's just a car. Millions of people drove cars just like this for many years, and the vast majority are still around to talk about it.
My boy is in college now, but we got him his car when he was still in high school - a Jeep Cherokee, with no ABS, no traction control (unless you count 4-wheel lock), and no other fancy stuff. My wife and I taught him to drive, and she was very proud of him (and scared crapless) when his wheels contacted the edge on a very snowy road, kicked him into a spin, and he calmly steered into it, caught the car, and continued on his way without pausing.
Nothing you can do can protect them completely. That's not the way life works. But you can provide them with a wide range of experiences, which they can use to help them to choose their directions in life.
Originally Posted by m371961
... get them on a snow covered empty parking lot to learn about traction in a rear wheel, no anti-lock car.
When I worked for NYC*EMS, if we had some snow, I used to take the bus to an unplowed lot and do a few spins - it's invaluable in helping you control a vehicle under unpredictable circumstances.
Originally Posted by stevengerard
... I let them take the EL (with a group of kids) from my village through the west side of Chicago. You know how much I could worry myself over that if I could think of all that could go wrong iver those 7 miles to the loop.
I was taking NYC buses and trains alone from the second grade.
Everyone in my high school commuted on the subway.
If you don't let your kids learn self sufficiency, they're done for.
About eight years ago, when my nephew was 15, my dad bought a '94 Cutlass Supreme convertible, electric blue with black interior and top, with the intent of giving it to him when he got his license. There were some academic requirements attached, which he didn't quite reach, and my sister thought the car was a death trap even with driver's side airbag, anti-lock brakes, 3-point seat belts, etc. So Dad sold the car. I would have loved to have had it but I was living in an apartment at the time and had no place to keep it out of the weather. My nephew is 23 now and Dad has given him his '71 Cutlass Convertible, another car I would have liked to have had. He's been dangling the '64 Dynamic 88 in front of me for 39 years. I'll be interested to see when or if "someday" ever gets here regarding that car.
Something that should be pointed out is going stupid places, at stupid times, with stupid people. I own 3 classic vehicles. Would I drive any of them routinely in rush hour traffic? No. Would I go to a bar and leave one downtown for a couple hours while drinking? No. Etc.
Children go out late, and it's because they have no place of their own. When you have your own place, you can have a date come over, little food, little wine, little music, little romance, etc. Kids don't have their own houses, so they go to parks, beaches, other houses of parents who are alone, etc, etc. I remember my sister, who is crazy, would just go "drive" at midnight.
Point is, the risk is acceptable in the middle of the day going to a car show, but maybe not in heavy traffic, or late at night, or with 3 drunk friends in the car. A common workaround is that it is not their car, but yours, and you get to approve the destinations, but that only works as well as kids listen.
Unfortunately, the line between "coddled" and "dead" where lessons are learned, but you live to tell the tale in one piece, is much thinner than it used to be, especially for girls.
I would add the shoulder belts and let them drive it as lang as they are responsible kids. Most kids not responsible would not want to drive an "old car" any way. That being said, I am not sure if I will let my girls drive either of the Jetfire when they are old enough. One has lap belts in the front and the other has no belts at all. I will not add shoulder belts to these cars. My W-30 will be long gone by the time they can drive but I would not be worried to let them drive it with some experience.
January 27th, 2017, 10:15 AM
even in the condition it is in. Their quote "Daddy can we at least clean it or do we have to leave it dusty like that" It needs body work, but brand new radiator, hoses, belts, car runs smooth. Brand new tires, brakes are fine. First thing I do is drop it off at my mechanic make sure its safe and replace points with petronix. Then get top fixed and maybe replace seat belts as suggested. It has AC and PDBs and PS that's it, so a simple fun car.
and went down a dirt road. Rattled so bad that is spiked the ECM and fried it! His truck, but my bill???? He will be paying me back. Some where in the back of my mind, I paid for my own cars and repairs! Worked two jobs and played football to boot!
