My2nd 69 442

What is the best fuel mileage that I should expect with my 69 442. Motor is 400 CID stock(numbers matching) Quadrajet stock 750 CFM with a mild Mondello cam and HEI ignition.
I'm currently getting 6.9 MPG and I'm hoping to do considerably better. Hoping a carb rebuild will help. I very seldom wind the car up thru the gears.
Am I dreaming?

oldcutlass

Is that around town?

My2nd 69 442

Mostly around town. A couple 35 mile highway trips

oldcutlass

You might get to see 10-12 with vacuum advance connected at continuous highway speeds. Whats your timing set to?

My2nd 69 442

Eric timing as follows: Vac disconnected and plugged 23* at 850 rpm
37* at 3500 rpm
Vac connected 25 @ 890 rpm and 47* at 3500 rpm
Seems to me that with vac hooked that 47* may be high, Vac advance is connected to manifold not the carb. I believe you and I discussed these timing settings in a different post

oldcutlass

By your numbers it seems your vacuum advance is connected to ported. If it were connected to manifold then your idle timing would show 47 also. They say that vacuum advance can be as high as 54, but I add 10 to mine also. I doubt you'll see much better than what your getting around town.

My2nd 69 442

I was not aware that Ported vac could come off the rear of the manifold. I was under the impression that Ported only came from the carb.
I had another issue today. driving the car aprox 3 miles and I lost all ignition had the car towed home, pulled the dist cap and ign module. Had module tested , it tested good. I'm gonna install a different coil and ign module from my Checy 350 eng that I have on my engine run/test stand and see what that gets me. I only lost ign and tach power. All other elect systems still work fine.

oldcutlass

The back of the manifold should be "manifold vacuum", which means you would have full vacuum to your vacuum advance at all times except at wot. So at idle with vacuum you should have approximately 43*.

Check to make sure you have voltage to your distributor BATT term with the key on before swapping parts.

My2nd 69 442

12.9 VDC at Dist batt terminal

My2nd 69 442

Eric I appreciate your help in troubleshooting my ignition problem. I have 12+ volt on the Batt terminal with key on but I still have NO fire. Engine cranks fine and all other systems seem to have power. I reinslalled original Ing module and replaced the Coil with a MSD coil that I had in my garage. Still no fire. Terminal had pushed back in connector at dist. for batt wire. Fixed that, still no fire. right now I'm hot (under the collar) and am taking a break. I'll get back after it in a little while. Any new suggestions greatly appreciated.
Previous owner has installed HEI dist. Next I'm gonna check for voltage during crank. I dont think I have a issue there but I'm gonna check

oldcutlass

Check your voltage at crank, doubt that's the issue. You have verified no spark?

MDchanic

If you've got power and have swapped the module and the coil (ASSuming that at least one of each was good...), that leaves the internal wires and the pickup.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Pretty much.

My2nd 69 442

Voltage during crank drops to 10.2 VDC. I verified no spark with a in line spark tester.
Can the ign module cause the voltage drop although auto parts store said the module tested good. Just a added note, yesterday I had a no start condition, but I was thought that I had flooded engine so I ran chores in a different vehicle and when I returned it started fine. I did not drive it then. Today it started fine, drove aprox 3 miles and it died and no start since. I had it towed home then the rest of the story as explained above. Module is original. I did not have another one. Eric What pick up are you talking about? I'm considering buying a new module.

MDchanic

10.2V at crank is not out of line, and the HEI should fire from that, no problem.

Have you had both of the modules in question tested at the auto parts store?

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

only original module tested (good) I did not have 2nd module I did replace coil with an old one in garage. No bounce of Tach during crank either

oldcutlass

Your basically doing what we would do. Heres a troubleshooting link:
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/84ca...coil/coil2.htm

My2nd 69 442

Eric thanks for the trouble shooting chart. I'm still leaning toward a module, but I dont want to throw money away. Do you think the module could be my problem although it tested good at the auto parts store?

MDchanic

I do. They can be funny.

You applied the correct heat sink paste, right?

Before buying a new one, though, I would try testing it on the car.
There's a simple way, and I don't recall what it is, to simulate the action of the pickup.

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

Thanks Eric so much for your time and help.
I just ordered a Flame thrower module. It should be here tomorrow. I'll let you know how it works out

Koda

What is your rear end ratio? (on the car)

The holy grail with a small block and a highway gear is to hit 20 on the road. I would think that would be 15 with a big block and a highway gear on the road, and 12 or so with steep gears, like Other Eric says.

Fun71

That would not be the case since his initial is 23º and there appears to be 10º vacuum advance. Adding vacuum advance to the idle would give 33º, unless I missed something.

My2nd 69 442

The gear ratio is 3.23

My2nd 69 442

If I ever get the damn thing running again, I'll recheck and post timing results (hopefully tomorrow after I get the new module)

oldcutlass

What was I thinking , at least the concept was right.

My2nd 69 442

UPS finally delivered my new module, got it installed and my car still will not start. I need help guys. I'm lost as to what to check next It cranks great but does not fire and no Tach bounce during crank. I have a good 12+ VDC power into dist and have 10-11 VDC during crank. Car ran great a couple days ago. All other electrical systems have power

My2nd 69 442

I just now checked resistance of the pickup coil and I get 856 ohms resistance. By the anglefire .com test that Eric gave me, I believe that the pickup coil is good. So with power into dist batt wire, new module and good pickup coil, where do I go/what should I check next? Coil test(if I'm doing it correctly)shows me that I have 2 bad coils. Test per above shows open between Batt and Tach terminal and rotor button on inside of dist cap shows same with coil removed from cap and checking both batt and tach terminals each separately and center of coil bottom side. Eric, am I checking this correctly?

oldcutlass

So all this tested good?
If the trouble has been narrowed down to the units within the distributor, the following tests can help pinpoint the defective component. An ohmmeter with both high and low ranges should be used. These tests are made with the cap assembly removed and the battery wire disconnected. If a tachometer is connected to the TACH terminal, disconnect it before making these tests.

1. Connect an ohmmeter between the TACH and BAT terminals in the distributor cap (at the coil on the L4). The primary coil resistance should be less than one ohm.


2. To check the coil secondary resistance, connect an ohmmeter between the rotor button and the BAT terminal. Note the reading. Connect the ohmmeter between the rotor button and the TACH terminal. Note the reading. The resistance in both cases should be between 6,000 and 30,000 ohms. Be sure to test between the rotor button and both the BAT and TACH terminals.


3. Replace the coil only if the readings in Step 1 and Step 2 are infinite.




These resistance checks will not disclose shorted coil windings. This condition can only be detected with scope analysis or a suitably designed coil tester. If these instruments are unavailable, replace the coil with a known good coil as a final coil test.

4. To test the pick-up coil, first disconnect the white and green module leads. Set the ohmmeter on the high scale and connect it between a ground and either the white or green lead. Any resistance measurement less than infinity requires replacement of the pick-up coil.


5. Pick-up coil continuity is tested by connecting the ohmmeter (on low range) between the white and green leads. Normal resistance is between 650 and 850 ohms. Move the vacuum advance arm while performing this test. This will detect any break in coil continuity. Such a condition can cause intermittent misfiring. Replace the pick-up coil if the reading is outside the specified limits.


6. If no defects have been found at this time, and you still have a problem, then the module will have to be checked. If you do not have access to a module tester, the only possible alternative is a substitution test. If the module fails the substitution test, replace it.

nsnarsk65cutlass

Look at the bottom of the rotor in the center for possible burn thru.You will see a black spot if this is the case.

My2nd 69 442

Todays actions: removed Known Good coil from my 67 Camaro, checked all coils with ohm meter and all (3) coils test about the same in resistance. Installed Known Good coil from Camaro in 442, Still No Spark. While 442 cap removed from 442, verified rotation of dist rotor(checking for sheared shaft). Checked voltage at Batt terminal with power wire connected, have 10+ vdc w/ ing switch in run position. Module is a brand new Pertrinix Flame Thrower. Only items not replaced are Dist cap and rotor(2 different rotors used in process) I am totally stumped and considering having car towed to GM dealership for them to attempt to fix it. I really hate to do that as I would like to figure out what the problem is myself (of course with you folks help)

MDchanic

... and pickup, and pickup wires.

- Eric

1970-W30

And that's why the HEI that came with my 65 is under the bench where it can't cause any trouble.......... it's a lot easier to troubleshoot problems with points. Check the dwell once a year, replace points/condenser every two, never a problem.

MDchanic

Careful, man - People'll be callin' you a HEI-Hater.

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

I'm in process or changing pickup coil now(if I can get the roll pin out)

MDchanic

Just tap it out with a pin punch. It's a 1-2-3 job.

If you don't have a pin punch, use the correctly sized nail (probably 10d or 12d), with its point ground or cut square.

- Eric

1970-W30

[QUOTE=MDchanic;946508]Careful, man - People'll be callin' you a HEI-Hater.
Got my flame suit on, just in case. Imo, HEI is not necessary and not cost effective, and it's been proven that it doesn't add horsepower.The name does sound cool though, "High Energy Ignition". You'd think it should be worth a few butt dyno horses......

oldcutlass

Each to their own, I like and have used both. However, a condenser failure can really be a trouble shooting adventure if you've never experienced it.

I also like old duel points and magnetos.

My2nd 69 442

I've about got the dist back together. I dropped one of the small e clips and had to go to the hardware store(and got lunch). While I was gone my wife found the original e clip, so now I got extra

oldcutlass

Those are lil dammits... The only issue with HEI's is that sometimes after you bought all the parts to rebuild one, you realize that a brand new one is the same price.

My2nd 69 442

dist back together and still no spark. The only part inside the dist that has not been replaced is the 3 wire capacitor. I rechecked to insure that I still have 12+ vdc to the dist and into the coil. I dont know at this point if I would be better off just replacing the whole damn dist. Any recommendations on what dist to buy