rroth01

I recently restored a 1967 Olds 442 Rally Pack for a party out in Nevada.He had purchased the Rally Pack from someone in Oregon I drove it back and forth to Bobs Speedometer in Howell michigan 90 miles one way.along with an AM/FM Radio.The radio had been tampered with as the selector bar was removed.
I spoke to this party once a week.Assuring him he would recieve a Quality Restoration.For those that I have dealt with I take a lot of pride and deliver the same restoration to all.I hope you have found my work acceptable.He has told me he has it in his bedroom and walks past it and cant believe the quality and Workmanship I have provided.
The initial Core was a mess.
In December he took it upon himself to use my FedEx account number to ship 3 boxes FEDEX Next day Air.$178.00 Each
My out of pocket on shipping $528.00.I purchased a new dash Pad from parts Place at $319.99 Painted it with SEM Landau Black .He has had the IP for 4 weeks and I still havent been paid.I am getting stories.
QUESTION ?
Is it appropriate to post his name on the Forum .As we speak he owes me $1300.00 I am just short of flying to Nevada.I dont want to see anyone make the same mistake as I did .
Thank You for listeneing
This guy doesnt belong in the hobby.
Dont let him get into your pocket.
Respectfully
Ron Roth
Detroit Michigan
586-556-1234

m371961

I think you should post it if you can back it up.
I don't know you, but anything I have read about you and your work on here has been more then positive.
Don't let someone else get burned.
However, I am not a lawyer, don't know anything about slander suits.

rroth01

Thanks Pat...I will get my Money..I have done everything for this guy.Except Father his children...

Octania

Look up the definition: it's not slander if it's TRUE. But, I am NOT a legal expert.
I don't see how you can go wrong stating FACTS to warn others. Stick to known facts. Have your paperwork in order- the FedEx shipping documents showing the shipments do not involve you. [that's damned pricey shipping too, not cheap ground!]


I assume you have tried calling for an explanation? Maybe someone ELSE got ahold of your acct and used it? Why would he intend to defraud you?

If you work out all the bugs in a week or 2 you can always follow up with an explanation.

I had a guy get all upset once because a crank I sent had a bad thrust surface. He stopped the payment- might have been paypal. I called him and explained I had never had that before, did not ck that feature. Why would I bother to ship a junk crank if I was out to just take money?

There is the federal internet crime reporting site, google that, make out a report. Sometimes it works.

ent72olds

I would post it....I will doing the same soon with a member here who stole $190 from me......his name will be in print here!

cdoering

I would post it. It's no different than when you buy something on ebay. If someone is dishonest and you have the facts and only tell the facts, then members should know about this. Its up to each member to make their own decision. I want to be informed.

tru-blue 442

Hate to hear that Ron.
I hope it works out for you.

MDchanic

I am sorry to hear this.

I am not an attorney, but I know that the forum owner is not liable for anything you post, nor are the moderators, but you are.
Libel (written) and slander (oral) are defined as untrue statements intended to cause harm to an entity.
So long as they are true (and in the US, it is the burden of the plaintiff (him) to prove they are NOT, not your burden to prove that they ARE), you cannot be successfully sued.

That being said, of course you have to be very sure of your facts before taking such a step, for the sake of your own reputation.

I would recommend taking a breather for a day or two and making sure that you are not posting anything out of anger, which clouds judgement. When you are sure you are at that point, then post away.

- Eric

rroth01

Ill get my Money...I will knock on his door one day soon.I dont think I am difficult to deal with.I have a call into a Classic Olds member that gave me the Referral.It is really a shame.I ship everything before I collect the C.O.D.That is Trust..I had bad vibes on this one from the get go..He told me "When I recieve it .....and " IF" I like it I pay you... Right"? I will give him a week to come out of Ether...Then I will take action.I am not a Little Boy..

Jimi2much

Ron , sorry to hear the story.
You are going to be the guy to restore my 67 442 dash if it just doesn't measure up to the " nicest on the planet " restore that is going on with my car in Kansas at the moment.
I'm in Phoenix. My sister in law resides in Las Vegas. If this is where he is from I have a police connection for you. Retired homicide detective. LVPD.
If someone does this to one person , he will do it to someone else.
Let me know.. If this is a Vegas thief. He belongs out of the hobby...
Thanks , Jim

rroth01

Thanks Jim.I appreciate everyones support .I may need your help.But i think that this guy needs an Eye to Eye just so that he knows where I am coming from.I had a notion from the get go.At any rate when you are ready or even close .Give me a call.
Ron Roth
586-556-1234
Detroit Michigan
"The Murder City"

MDchanic

Never hurts to have an extra set of eyes for one if those...

- Eric

coldwar

Take your class III body armor, which means you will make a long drive from Detroit to Las Vegas, where just about everyone carries. You disregarded your gut instinct, it went bad assuming you held up your end of the sofa in the deal and now you have clearly established pre-meditation for your actions with your typed word, which I wonder how you will explain away in hand cuffs if the visit goes bad.

How is it with these forums of a very focused interest the initial topics of threads swing from the board focus to Facebook-like rants and 'tweets' as the most frequent users become personally acquainted, until the board is then a increasing majority of posts of a personal nature? It's not I don't loosely care about the troubles strangers have but this isn't why I and most are here. I am sure you do and will continue to do great instrument panel work, but this kind of thread seems a bit junior high school level even for one with sensibilities born of the murder city.

Mods, are you watching or moderating? Will you only delete such threads after someone gets hurt? This is a matter of business and law and courts of law, not evolving social media. I am a non-attorney spokesperson.

ent72olds

Ron, I dont doubt for a second that you are 100% in the right here! But, like Eric said, take a breather and gather exactly the scenario on a piece of paper before posting here. That's what I plan on doing. Although, $1300 is a lot of coin. Keep us in the loop. I'm angry just thinking about your problem!

MDchanic

Ron never said or implied anything about violence or threats of violence, so I'm a bit baffled by the turn this conversation has taken.

He wants to talk to the guy, and it looks like he may have the opportunity to bring along a member of the local law enforcement community when he goes to do so.
How is this wrong or juvenile?

- Eric

sammy

I support you Ron in whatever decision you make....I usually like to know the cream is sour before it goes into my coffee

Ted

tru-blue 442

Nicely put Ted.

rroth01

Cold War..
My Father always told me .You dont know where a man is coming from .Until you know where he has been.
If you dont like the post.Then go back to bed.
I contacted my Customer last night and wasnt pleased with his response.
I dont have any intentions of going to Nevada .
Put my shoes on.I have Hours and Hours of work into this.I put out a great product that is reasonably priced .
Check my references.
All I want is my due.
I have had Pneumonia for 5 weeks and still found it in my heart to paint this IP for this customer to meet his due date.
He has spent Dollars and Dollars of unecessary Shipping .On my Dime.
This is an expensive Hobby.I didnt rape anyone on this transaction.
It was all of the extra effort I put into his finished product and additional services I porovided.P.S I did contact a Moderator before posted.
Too many of us are getting ripped off and its about time others are notified.
Maybe you will understand when it happens to you..

ent72olds

The only thing Ron, about posting his name etc, is once you do that, you can pretty much forget about ever getting your money. Once you are resigned to the fact that the money is gone, then have at it! Post, post and post more! Remember , we here need to watch others backs.

cutlass xombie

What Ted said...Sorry to hear that Ron. I hope it all works out for you.

pogo69

Its hard enough just getting thru the day sometimes...without having to worry about being screwed.........post it

RetroRanger

Another forum Im on someone posted about getting screwed by a respected forum member and posted his UN.

At first there was general disbelief followed by more and more people coming out of the background (mostly read only members) who had also had bad transactions w the same member. In the end many posters had held back because they didnt feel others would believe them VS the respected forum member. As it all came out that respected member was banned and *some* others stated their money had been refunded ....

I second Erics advice take a day or two contact the guy again if neccessary and then if you still feel the need post away

tru-blue 442

EASY now...

steverw

An eye to eye visit has no implication of of violence in my book. This guy owes Ron money as first agreed to before any work was ever done. I have seen pictures of Rons work, and it looks first class. The guy is just a dead beat loser that needs to be exposed so others wont fall prey to him. My only concern is that if they did meet, what will "Loser Guy" do? I worry more about Rons safety, but it sounds like he would have some support if he goes.
Ron good luck dealing with this jerk and getting your money or the dash back.
Perhaps contact the Los Vegas District Attorneys office see if they can offer any help.
Best Wishes

steverw

I also dont see that posting his name is going to hurt your chances of getting paid. Its already looking bad for that. It might even help, if this guy wants services that cannot be had just anywhere, he needs to learn to play by the rules. If he gets banned from this site surely the same will eventually happen elsewhere. He will find himself all alone with no one willing to work with him.
I would post his name in big NEON letters!

72notchback

I have seen similar dealings on a baseball card forum. Before you all start laughing there are some huge transactions that take place on some of those forums. Sometimes getting the name out there will bring many more out that have had bad transactions with this individual. Also, I have seen a few cases where just the threat of a public ousting has shaken a few wallets loose. My advice is to contact the member and tell of your plans of posting the exact facts and see if that gets you anywhere. After that I say type away

Either way good luck and hope is doesn't derail any future IP restos.

Good luck
Dave

coldwar

You don't know a damn thing about me or my experiences but I sure know a lot more about you and your private business then I want to now after reading these remarks - enough to know you know nothing of what being in business means, how to handle these situations and how to adjust and move on. Offering value, service and competency for your pay is only a fraction of what business means. I can't begin to get in the same universe with airing out matters of business on a public chat forum even involving parties known to each other. $1300 in the big picture is certainly a tidy sum but not enough to damage your reputation with strangers who have only your reputation to rely on.

Eric Asks:

Rons' parsed remarks in this thread:

Post #9

Post #11

And finally Eric joins in as a co-figurehead of menace in post #12:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by rroth01
... i think that this guy needs an Eye to Eye...

Never hurts to have an extra set of eyes for one if those...

- Eric "

Don't try and argue I don't know or misunderstood the menacing intent of these remarks, as if the burden of correct interpretation is on the reader. Who has decided this is a criminal matter as Eric suggests involving the police, and not merely a civil matter between parties who disagree? And if it is established a criminal act has actually happened, then law enforcement is duty bound to act, and outside of both of your involvement. When a matter such as this comes to this end in the real world, the service provider better damn well declare the income, and all of such income. How looking ahead might I have this man do work for me and then wonder if he or you or both will come to my door or hide in the bushes even if I keep my end of the deal? You see, we have less then half the facts in this matter, and it is a stupid and pointless discussion for what generally is a more well adjusted Oldsmobile hobby board. Why not take this kind of nonsense to the buyer/seller feedback section of other boards where this kind of thing is welcomed.

1969w3155

When I sent my carb out to be rebuilt and finished, work did not start until my CC number was given. Customers have to pay up front with the vintage stuff and services just like any other business, I would say in the future to collect up front for your services, as being a decent guy with quality work doesn't guarantee payment. I hope that the deadbeat pays up, and yes post him here to warn the rest of us.

rroth01

I mean no disrespect to anyone on this Forum.I am just very frustrated .I have no intentions of violence or harm.I know how much energy I have put into this Small Hobby.It consumes all of my extra time.I travel 6 states as Sales Manager in the Aerospace Industry.I know Business and Business etiquette.
I have delivered over 140 restored Instrument panels in the last 3 years .I take pride in the relationships it has created .Most of which are on Classic Oldsmobile.I have always delivered a product that I am proud of .And have Delivered it without a C.O.D paid in full prior to shipping.The unfortunate part is that has to change.Due to one Individual.

MDchanic

Wow. I didn't realize that Ron had hired you as a business consultant.
Oh. That's right. He didn't.

I guess I'll give your statement exactly the weight it deserves relative to what Ron paid for it, then.


Wow. And I thought I was misanthropic.

You, ColdWar, get the prize for seeing the absolute worst in everybody.
I am truly impressed.

So tell me, Kreskin, how is it exactly that you divined my innermost thoughts?

The fact is that I meant exactly what I wrote, in the belief that Ron meant exactly what he wrote.
If he has just lost $1,300, then it seems to me that if he goes to Las Vegas to get it back, succeeds, and spends $1,300 on the trip, he has broken even.
If he wants to go there, talk to the guy, and, by the power of his presence influence the guy to pay up, I think that's laudable.

In terms of an extra set of eyes, I meant EXACTLY what I said -
A meeting of the type envisioned is fraught with the potential for misunderstanding and deliberate obfuscation. Having an uninvolved third party present, especially a member of law enforcement, he can have a witness to any agreements, refusals, or threats made by his "customer."

My wife has had occasion to hire a retired detective to accompany her when dealing with clients whose relationships had gone sour - an unbiased third party who can vouch for the fact that objects have been returned or money has changed hands can be invaluable when dealing with the scum of the earth.



Nobody, as I explained above, except the angry little man in your head.


What, exactly is this sentence supposed to mean? In English.


Somehow I doubt that Ron is likely to do business with you in the future.
I mean, except for hiring you as a business consultant.


Ron wanted to know how others felt he should proceed in terms of naming this individual.
I think his question was fair, honest, and democratically conceived.
I commend him for that.

- Eric

coldwar

In a perfect 'mob rule' setting with threads like this being a demonstration of that, the worst in many presents itself. I hold up a mirror to allow people a chance to evaluate a poorly considered 'one side of the story' position, which I am not surprised you choose to maintain. That no one ultimately cares what I or you think in that order won't stop me from being one trying to turn the tide. Where is the Classic Oldsmobile content in this pile of crap of a thread?

MDchanic

Protection of fellow members from a dishonest buyer by identifying that person, so that others can avoid doing business with him.

And, yes, the guy who's been sick with pneumonia for five weeks sounds really threatening to me...

- Eric

DarrylJ

This is a good one, I hope it all works out for you! Good Luck!

coldwar

On a self evident basis you have came to a conclusion based on much less then complete information. That is a purely personal choice, not one I care to make for another, nor do I expect anyone to do the same for me, certainly no furtherance of this hobby. Let him take his personal business problems to court and out of this chaos of mob rule.

O.P.LARRY

You need to STFU.
This guy gets screwed and you come on here bitching about him.
Get a f'n life.......

Rocket Richard

Coldwar, you seem to be on Eric's radar now, which makes for entertaining commentary. But, if you think this thread is a piece of crap, please stop reading it. Life is too short to get worked up over this.

Ron, $1300 is a lot to lose. I think the guys here are right when they say if you post this guy's name, your chances of getting your money go down. Hopefully things work out for you in the end.

coldwar

Hi P.O. Larry - No one here and your mother gives a single $hit what you think, or what I think for that matter - I'll say in honesty what is appropriate in my view. I don't know he got screwed, and neither does anyone else except the parties directly involved. Go have a nice day and dream about growing up.

coldwar

If you think my responses in this thread are part of the piece of crap I say it is, you are welcome to not read them, use the ignore function. It's here, I'm reading and responding, and not riding any bandwagons.

coldwar

awesome_thread.jpgtin-foil-hat.jpg
gougingeyesout.gif

Jamesbo

Gents, I think everyone needs to go outside, take a deep breath and cool off. If y'a'' can't be civil..............This thread is going to be closed.