MrPotHead

I have a 1970 442 455 E heads matching numbers motor. I have no idea what its worth. I got about 2 grand into the E heads. Got a main or rod bearing knock. was running perfect before that. What's it worth

70W-32

The only way it can be numbers matching is if you have the car it belongs to

OLDSter Ralph

What is a "matching numbers motor? ? If you have a main bearing or rod bearing knock, its not worth what you think.

joe_padavano

^^^THIS! "Numbers matching" means that the VIN derivative on the block matches the VIN of the car. If the motor isn't in the car, the numbers don't "match" anything.

Fun71

Sounds like a core engine to me since it will need a rebuild.

The engine value would depend upon what parts it has - cam, pistons, rockers, valves, etc. The porting work likely needs to be verified - who did it, and what was done?

MrPotHead

the motor is bore .30 out, stock crank, pistons arent fancy, the heads are ported for street - strip -and bracket racing and have larger exhaust valves. i mean its only one year type motor and you can't get them no more. I was thinking around 3000 Canadian but i could be wrong

MrPotHead

Matching numbers means matching heads and matching block. No vin on the engine tells you what car it came out of

truckman5000

3k.
you may have better luck selling heads separate maybee a guy needs e heads ? May get 3k just for those.
1k for the block...depending

fleming442

$250 usd

scrappie

Actually the VIN derivative located on the pad, on the block tells you what car it came out of. You could put any D,E,F,G,H heads on the block and you would be saying the same thing.
"Matching numbers" from what I've learned over the years, means the motor and transmission (each with V.I.N. derivatives stamped on them) match the V.I.N. of the car.
Without the car, the motor doesn't match anything. You can have a motor that is period correct with correct numbers on carb, alternator, distributer but it isn't "matching numbers"
The heads are 1970 heads which would be correct for any 70, non w-30 455 but they don't match anything.
The motor is a core, the heads are 70 heads which are not too rare but I dont know what you did to the heads and dont know what the worth of 70 ported, worked heads would be but probably more than average if they are bolt on, ready to go? block = $2-$300. The heads = ?

joe_padavano

No it doesn't. "Matching numbers" means that there are numbers that actually MATCH. The VIN derivative on the block MATCHES the VIN of the car it was installed in at the factory. The first character of the VIN derivative MATCHES the first character of the VIN. The last eight of the VIN derivative MATCH the last eight of the VIN. There is a similar VIN derivative on the trans case. A numbers matching motor means that it is the original, factory installed motor in a particular car (technically, this only proves that the block is original, but that's a whole different discussion). There is only ONE "matching numbers" motor for each car made.

What you MAY have is a "correct" motor with "correct" casting numbers and date codes. There are thousands of head and block castings with the correct casting numbers and date codes in the correct production range for any given car. Not exactly the same value a the ONE original motor for that car.

You can delude yourself that this motor is worth something. Good luck convincing someone with cash of the same thing.

CANADIANOLDS

Couldn’t numbers matching also mean, the dizzy, the carb, the heads and block dates casting are all within the date range ?

when talking about an engine in a car, saying numbers matching means to the vin

An original complete untouched engine out of a vehicle is numbers matching or correct,. right?

joe_padavano

Again, what numbers "MATCH"???

There is only one numbers-matching engine for a given car. There are potentially THOUSANDS of engines with correct casting numbers and date codes.

CANADIANOLDS

nope,, you need to look up the the word match in the dictionary.

it can mean “corresponding in pattern” There are casting and dates on that engine if it’s all original.

let’s take a 70 W 31 engine out of a car. It’s got the correct carb, big valve #6 heads, the dizzy and carb dates “correspond” nothing on the heads , block , and bottom of intake dates are not out of whack as far as date spread .


it’s all corresponding. Any expert who is verifying an engine can tell if the numbers and castings do or don’t correspond. That has nothing to do with the vin stamp on the block being identical to the body vin

has your wife ever asked you if her purse matches her dress and shoes? 😁

joe_padavano

So every car that has a non-original engine with correct casting numbers and date codes is worth exactly as much as one with the original engine with a VIN derivative stamp that MATCHES the VIN of the car? Then feel free to pay the man his $3K asking price for his "matching numbers" engine (sans car... ).

Fun71

I completely agree with you - you just made the distinction between "corresponding" and "numbers matching".

fleming442

The bottom line is that the commonly used term for correct, original VIN stampings on the engine, transmission, body, and frame DO NOT APPLY to an engine alone.
The heads have been tampered with, so they're not factory original, either.

If you have that much work in the heads, that was done correctly, then sell them separately to recupe most of the cost. After that, you have a core short block with bad rod bearings. W/Z exhaust manifolds have some value, as well as "notched" valve covers. Original distributor and carb may be worth something. After that, there's nothing really desirable beyond core value.

stan 65 cutlass

So its a “correct” 70 442 motor, that wasn’t too hard to figure out

OLDSter Ralph

"period correct" ?

CANADIANOLDS

i didn’t make it, the dictionary says matching means corresponding. I can’t take credit for that

CANADIANOLDS

I never said any of that. Never talked about worth at all… but I will now

I just finished up building an original 100% untouched W31 engine. That engine was worth the same sitting on my engine stand or if it was in the car being sold separately.

the worth of the engine out of the engine bay or in it, does not change if there is no car to connect it too.

this post is about that, and engine not connected to a body. See, and I still didn’t say anything about the 3k

MrPotHead

Some people are just salty over a simple question asked. Numbers on the motor match exactly what its suppose to be. Pretty simple. Its a Rare motor regardless if the cars there or not and rare as in you go find E heads or a 70 442 block your gonna be looking, its not a ls or a chevy 350. Ill put it up for 2500 obo and go from there

Bfg

Don’t bogart that joint

MrPotHead

All mine !!!

joe_padavano

Every 455 Olds made in the 1970 model year except for the W30 motors came with E heads. Every 455 Olds made in the 1970 model year used the same block. Every 4bbl 455 except Toros and W30s used the same intake. That includes every one of the 25,475 Toronados built, every one of the 96,294 Ninety Eights built, every one of the 82,557 Delta 88 Customs and Delta 88 Royales built, and many of the 120,874 base Delta 88s built in the 1970 model year in addition to the 16,230 1970 442s that were not W30s, the 7,197 Cutlass Supreme SXs, and the Cutlass and Vista Cruisers built with the L33 motor. Only about a quarter million 1970 455s with that block and heads. Yeah, that's rare.

armbrbr

You swiped right on this comparison. Sure a W31 engine with all the correct parts is worth a lot more than a regular 455.

Put that engine in any car other than the W31 it came in you still won't have a numbers matching car. You'll have at best a period correct W31 car, at worst a clone. Most people would pay less for that "period correct " car than they would for a "numbers matching" car.

70W-32

Do ,you have the reciept for the head work?

v8al

Recent real world experience:

In December saw a complete 455 for sale with "E" heads. It was out of a boat and claimed to be running fine when pulled. It was first listed at $1000.
Two weeks later it was listed for $600.
I decided to offer $300 and the offer was declined.
Shortly after the ad was taken down and I assume it was sold.

RetroRanger

I sold a long block e headed core $450 took about a year.

herkguy

I picked up a spare 70 OG trans couple months back. The matching vin Eng is available for 1500.
The car was wrecked. I can verify for anyone that it is a 442 motor because it’s vin matched to an original OG transmission.
still seemed expensive to me though as per what Joe said, it’s not a Lansing motor and otherwise it’s a e head big block full of 70 date coded parts in need of a rebuild. I probably would go 800.00 on it.
value though is decided by the buyer, only worth what someone will pay.

I would definitely provide the paperwork for the head work, that will help a lot.
GLWTS

fleming442

Don't lowball me; I know what I have.

OLDSter Ralph

Joe P, has anyone told you that you spoil a good "story" with facts ? Thank you.

OLDSter Ralph

The last 455 core I bought didn't have E heads and turned over freely. It was missing the carb, but included the torque converter. I paid way less than $400.

Andy

Sounds like a correct engine, not a matching number engine for a 1970 442.. nothing rare about that. Many would not want heads that have been ported as to many morons take a dye grinder to the heads thinking they are improving them. You may get 700-1000 for it carb to pan with a rod knock to the right person..otherwise its simply a core.. its not a w31, w30, basic 455 is it. Now if you want to believe it something special that’s OK with me because it’s your engine

Andy

Thats hilarious, you are welcome to your own opinion but not your own facts..lol.. Mike Pence quote..

joe_padavano

I have typically paid $100-200 for a core with a spun bearing. Granted the last time was a few years ago, so prices are likely higher now. As others note, unless there's documentation on the heads, buying them is a pig in a poke. The real message here is that this "all original" engine has been apart, had the heads messed with, and you really have no idea what's inside of it.

OLDSter Ralph

I haven't found a need to buy a "core" engine with a "knock" or spun bearing. Maybe when they get "rare", I may have to consider them for spares in the future. Right now, there are engines out there to be had.
I have become more careful about assuming "rebuilt" was also correctly assembled. If an engine developed a "knock", we have no idea which caused the problem.....bad parts or bad assembly.
I would give more for an engine thats never been apart. Oldsmobile knew how build an engine, some of these "shops" don't, all you have to do is read the threads on this site.