Hey all, I've seen some discussion on here about value vs. condition. My question is how does one determine condition to assess value?

Case in point, I have a '72 U code Supreme, and while it's not in perfect condition, it is in pretty good shape. Two small rust spots on the trunk lid, minor crease about 6 inches long on the front driver side fender just past the eye brow trim and some bubbling under the vinyl at the bottom of the rear window on the passenger side are the only cosmetic issues.

Mechanically it is sound. Numbers matching drivetrain, with the only issue it being an original A/C car, but a PO removed the compressor and the lines. Everything else for the A/C is still there, including the condenser.

Interior is good with the exception of some seams that have split on the seat on the driver side, but not very noticeable.

Other than that, she's good. It does have some mods (see pic) and runs great.

So, based on what I've described, what would be a fair grade for the condition? (High 2, low 3?), or am I way off?

Thanks,
Dave

 

This is the Old Car Price Guide scale, which many use. Sounds like you are a high 4.

 

In my humble opinion (and I know little about A bodies) everything you mentioned requires a complete redo of the area that is affected and you have mentioned many panels or areas that need attention. A # 3 car looks like a show car till you get very close and inspect it like you were a judge.I believe as described it is a mid 4 car or lower mostly because of all the areas affected. As usual your mileage may differ..... Tedd

 

Most sellers think their car is in far better condition than it really is. A brand new car from the factory is a #2 condition car. #1 cars are not driven, only trailered. In your case, if you're seeing rust bubbles, you have a much worse rust problem than you think. No car with visible rust bubbles is a #2. I won't comment on the mods, since they are subjective, but they do effect value for that reason. Things like body panel fitment (look at the front of the hood) also effect condition.

 

I'd say your car is a solid 4. Figure what a 2 is worth and then subtract the value of all the repairs it needs and that is your cars worth.

 

If you are looking for a insurable value...the following does not pertain to that. Whole different scenario. .

Value is generally a subjective thing with these old cars, anyway There is precedence, brand & sub-brand history, historical importance, emotional bond values (you don't have to own one to have an emotional bond). The economy. Old $$$...New $$$, mechanical, structural, and cosmetic state. The willingness of a buyer to "self-project" a car...etc. About the best you can do, for sellers, is try to find a reasonable average, when compared to your car, and go from there. For a buyer, try to start below your line in the sand max budget and start your search. If you have a $ 25K budget don't keep looking at $ 40K+ cars. You will be disappointed.

While both of my cars are numbers matching, it seems fewer and fewer buyers really care about that. If a potential buyer doesn't care...scratch that part off the valuation card. The bottom-line is, what's the value to the buyer. After owning (4) classics I have learned that as long as a real buyer is talking to you, you have to decide how important that $$$$ difference is that separates their cash from your wallet. Even with all of the experience here, a recent valuation request...based on pictures, of course...was all over the pricing map.

For the most part, I would say that most of us here are not flippers and will very likely never recover our $$$ and sweat equity. We typically don't do things to these cars for the hope of resale returns. We do it to keep them running and / or because we just want to. Besides, my estate won't have a damned dime invested in thee suckers so, they won't particularly care how much was invested / involved. To the estate...its free money!

As a side note, I am not sure I will ever try to sell one via craigslist again. I sold my El Camino thru a local consignment dealer and was very pleased with the lack of involvement, on my part.

 

You know, I keep seeing the "POST QUICK REPLY" button....thinking, that's BullChit. Not much of a chance for a quick reply in my posts....LOL!

 

I think it’s worth what the buyer is willing to pay.

 

The U Code 455 is a big plus.

Buckets and console or bench?
Rallye Pack?
Sport steering wheel?
Dual Gate shifter?

Each of those adds a block of value over a bench / column shift/ no gauges car. I've owned over a dozen '72 Supremes including U code and V Code cars in the past 30 years. I'd need to see more to give you my gut feel price range - lower door seams, trunk floor edges, etc. The rust under the vinyl top is the trickiest repair but very common.

Terry

 

Any rust def takes it out of #2 range. IMO with any rust present (especially under the top) its prob hard to even call it a low #3, because you are most likely only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

 

No rally pac, buckets with column shift, tilt wheel, power driver seat, shoulder belts, driver side remote mirror, dual exhaust. Trunk, door seams and chassis are all solid with zero rust.

 

Are you talking about where the hood meets the grille, or towards the back near the windshield?

 

Mileage is just over 105,000

 

BTW: I really like the look of your car. Especially the stance and hood.

 

Definitely a sharp ride with well done tasteful mods....especially the 442 grilles !!

 

Speaking of Condition / Rarity / Valuation...While not an Olds, a shining example of how no matter how rare, pretty, or well conditioned a car is, it still may not be worth much.

This Ford Torino Elite is said to have 20,000 original miles on her. The seller is asking $ 17,500. I'm not sure he could get $ 12K for it. There just isn't a market for it...which can be part of the reason it is rare. Beautiful car though.




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All in the eyes of the beholder. To each his own.

 

There are THREE legs to the old car value stool. Rarity, condition, and desirability. The last one is often overlooked. People have to want the car. It has to be a sought after model. Many people think that, if the first two are true about a car, it's rare and in good shape, the third one will also be true by default, it will automatically be desirable and command a high value. But that's not true.

A perfect example of this is the good-ol' 1972 Oldsmobile F-85 four-door sedan. It was the last year of the F-85 (at least for the A-bodies), this was the only body style available, and production probably totaled about ten or twelve. They are thus extremely rare today, and if you had one in good condition, you might think it could command a reasonable price. Nope. They weren't popular then. They're not popular now. You'd be lucky to find someone to give you a dime for it, figuratively speaking.

 

3,793, actually, but your point is valid.

Another example is my 1988 Firenza wagon. It's the last year for the Firenza and probably one of 50-ish made with the OHC motor and five speed (there were only 920 wagons made that year total). Rare? You bet, possibly the only 5spd version left. Valuable or desirable? Not a chance.

 

All of these cars are valuable/desirable to someone for one reason or another. The only real difference is how long the seller is willing to wait for that Buyer to appear in the marketplace. For the 'popular' cars, there are Buyers everywhere. For the Gremlin X's, there are likely Buyers willing to ante up, but their numbers are similar to the population of purple lobsters.

 

I'm no expert for sure ,but agree with the many posters that conclude it's worth what someone is willing to pay. for it, obviously the person who grew up with a certain car or who's Grandpa owned one and that vehicle is burned into their memory and they now desire one is going to pay more for that vehicle than the person who was just browsing Craigslist one day when they stumbled across a random vehicle amd said "that looks nice" who knows with a little luck that person (the vehicle specific person) could respond to a add.
As far as rare, well again rare may not equate to valuable case in point my 56 Olds super 88 2 door sedan had low production numbers 5,464 to be exact, I will stand there all day with my chest puffed out and proclaim that's pretty rare!! at least when compared to a 1956 Chevy BelAir 2 door sedan with a production # of 104,849 !! search any classified and look at which vehicle is fetching more money, flat out Chevy wins despite the fact the Olds is is probably the better vehicle.
I personally believe there is a lot of gray area in condition, for example rust free cars will always bring more however I would not pass over a veh that may have some rust at one time but it was professionally and properly repaired and not visible, also I would not loose any sleep over vehicles that were properly /professionally repaired with aftermarket parts,
Of course I am of these opinions because I was not looking for a show winner or concourse vehicle I was looking for a nice driver and that's what I found .I I have the utmost respect for people that restore vehicles to that level just not my cup of tea, my enjoyment comes from both behind the wheel and from looking at her from across the parking lot !!
In the end it's whatever the seller can get and if your the buyer it's whatever floats your boat.
Also if your enjoying it and it makes you happy that's all that really counts, and your doing your part to keep these vehicles on the road instead of languishing in a bone yard as shelter for rats, squirrels and racoons.

 

I've never believed this, and I've always considered this wishful thinking on the part of the owner of a nice-condition, low-demand car. They can overprice it and hope that someone out there who really, really wants one will pay more than market value for it for sentimental reasons. Good luck. I may want a car that no one else wants, but I'm not stupid. I KNOW that no one else wants it, and I still expect to pay market value for it.

 

I have seen this scenario play out, we had a company bulletin board at work and a several years back a fellow associate posted a Jeep Wagoneer that he had purchased with the intention to flip, as it turned out two people were interested, one just looking for a 4x4 but the other interested because this old Wagoneer was very similar to the one his dad had owned and he remembered as the veh that started his interest in 4 wheeling, so this was a pretty nice vehicle and both interested parties got into a bit of a bidding war over the vehicle. In the end the person with the desire to own one like dads purchased the veh for more than the asking price (beating out the other person) So the premium he paid was worth it to him. I saw him last year at a group camping trip with some old friends and he is still proudly driving that Wagoneer.

 

Jaunty you are a car guy, you probably triple inspect everything car related you purchase. The local Joe Blow hasn't a clue of the worth of a 50 year car and often buys on impulse or nistagula, It happens all the time. When I worked gun shows every now and then I would fall in love with something and pay the premium even though I knew the going rate but sometimes you just gotta have it, same with old POS rusty cars..... Tedd