1968CutlassSupreme

Hello All!

I am in the process of replacing the carpet in my 68 supreme. I figured while the carpet was out I would consider running updated wiring (larger gauge) under the carpet in preparation for an audio system update.

Does anyone here have any experience with this? I have never put a radio or speakers in a car before and I don't want to approach this one as my first without some research and assistance.

My goal is to replace the radio with a retro-fit (factory looking) radio with modern amenities, replace the 4x10 in the dash with an updated speaker and put 2 6x9s in the package tray area. I don't know if door speakers are possible or recommended.

Any help/insight/guidance would be of great help and will be greatly appreciated!

Weezer

Don't cut into your door cards.

The speaker wire placement is a good idea while you have the carpet out. My only recommendation would be to just go to a car stereo shop (do they have any Duke's Car Stereo in NC?) and ask about the proper gauge wiring and insulation type (rated to go under carpet). Leave yourself with plenty of extra wiring to the dash and to the rear package tray, and don't make the mistake of thinking "this length seems about right", because it's easier to just wrap up extra length with a zip tie than it is to rerun a longer wire later.

Rog

I did the same thing on my 68 442 vert run the wires on top of the ins. I used a duel cone speaker up front if it a ac car the speaker is much thinner than a non ac I got wrong one the first time and start all over again when I went put the ducts back in I used a retro sound radio ITS ok good luck

oldcutlass

This is really easy with the exception of cutting holes that anyone can do at home. Normally the wire comes with the speakers and if your not going with a big amp they are more than adequate. You don't need to do this now because you can follow the end of the carpet at the doors, remove the scuff plates, and run the wires. After market front kick panels are available for front speakers and don't look bad. Cutting holes in door panels and usually requires cutting into the metal door itself is more complex. Using a dual voice coil speaker up front is not a bad idea, however with A/C you need the thinner one.


Don't go nuts with high amp speakers, buy some that closely match the output of the stereo and I stick with 2 ways on the 6x9's. Three ways without an amp sound like crap.

Fun71

Agreed. This is what all of my friends and I did when we drove these cars back in high school.

Olds64

You can always run the speaker wire later when you're ready to do the upgrade. Just use the old speaker wire as a lure and pull the new speaker wire through. Or, do what Eric mentioned and remove the scuff plates under the doors to run the wire. Of course, we all understand if you've come down with a case of the MAWs.

redoldsman

Crutchfield is a really good company that sells all kinds of audio equipment. I have purchased from them over the years and have always been satisfied. I still get their catalogs. You can call them if you have any questions. As Eric mentioned, the wire that comes with the components is usually adequate. Now if you decide to fill the trunk with amplifiers that is another story. The kick panel speakers are a good idea. Just be sure the left one clears the parking brake. DON'T cut the door panels. You will regret it later. Good luck.

1968CutlassSupreme

Where did you get your equipment?

1968CutlassSupreme

Do you have a retro-fit radio? Do I understand right that you have a total of 5 speakers? One in the dash, two in the kick panels and two in the package tray? What size did you put in the kick panels?

1968CutlassSupreme

Thanks Eric,

Where can I get the kick panels? What size speakers are they made for?

oldcutlass

The kickpanels with or without speakers are available thru most resto parts suppliers, Yearone, OPGI, etc... Speaker size dependent on kickpanel bought, usually 6" round.

Fun71

As stated, these can be purchased almost anywhere, even from Amazon.
Search around for the best price including shipping.

https://www.classiccarstereos.com/19...ck-panels.html

Cincinnati Rick

X2
Crutchfield has great customer service techs that live and breath this stuff. They can answer any questions you have concerning the audio equipment and installation. The parking brake may have to be taken off, heated up and bent a little to clear the speaker as redoldsman mentioned.

Fun71

Mine fit with no issues.

Rog

sorry the retro sound went in my 66 impala I used a custom autosound in the 442 I went strait to them. its in the opg book page 101. they had the correct front speaker to its 140 watt, the back ones I got at pep boys reg 6by9 duel cone www.customeautosound.com

BangScreech4-4-2

Wouldn't recommend the kick panel speakers. I have them in my convertible and I've never been happy with the sound. The cheap ABS they use for the enclosures buzzes and there seems to be no way to damp it, plus there's just not enough space in there to get any decent kind of bass response. You'll be way better off using the parcel shelf to mount some 2-way 6 X 9s. Check E-bay to see if you can find some "vintage" Alpine 6205s from the '80s. If adequately driven (your head unit should have 20W RMS/channel or better), they'll give you some great frequency response and a nice fat jukebox sound. Absolutely no need for a sub.


You'll have to punch holes in your package tray, but the good news is, reproductions are available.

Fun71

Mine made some buzzing sounds that I was able to cure with an additional hold down screw. The factory setup has just one screw and that's not sufficient to secure the kick panel. Adding a second screw really snugged the panels down and stopped the rattling.

As for bass response, that's nor really what they're designed for. In my car they provide sound up front to complement the rear 6x9 speaker in boxes. Rear speakers only just don't give enough sound when at speed with the top down.
Plus, I wired the speakers so I can remove the rear boxes if I have back seat passengers and still have sound from the fronts.

BangScreech4-4-2

Fortunately, OP has a hardtop and so won't have to deal with the problems we've had.

oldcutlass

Hey cutting the 2 holes in the package tray constitutes as a problem. Its the hardest part of the whole job.

BackInTheGame

If you do go with the kick panel speakers, and you experience the buzzing that '69442ragtop mentions, you could affix a piece or two of any popular noise insulator such as Dynamat to the metal body braces directly behind the panel. That would cut down on the reverb within the kick panel location.

BangScreech4-4-2

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Mind you, I didn't use Dynamat (too fidgety to cut for all those contours), I used some specific audio insulation they call "brown bread" in the trade.

cjsdad

Since you are upgrading your vehicle as well as the sound system, make sure you get "good" speaker wire. You don't need the 10 ga., spiral-wound, triple-insulated Monster Cable but using OFC (oxygen free copper) 12 ga. speaker wire can make a noticeable difference in the sound quality. It is available from most on-line sources like Amazon.

Run your speaker wires down the passenger side of the vehicle so it cannot pick up induction noises from the factory wiring. YES, it can and does happen!

In-dash 4X10 speakers can be replaced with two 3 1/2 dual cone speakers. Ready made mounting boards are available but can be home made out of masonite board, thin plywood. or any other similar substitute. The best sounding I have ever heard are Kenwood brand.

Kick panel speakers can be made to sound very nice if mounted solidly and sealed well. Jute carpet insulation works well for sealing as well as preventing rattles and vibrations.

Like mentioned above, co-axial 6X9 speakers can make an amazing amount of sound if installed properly. Just like the kick panels, solid mounting and well sealed is the recipe.

Adding an amplifier can add a whole new dimension to a sound system that even a high-powered stereo cannot give. Having an amp doesn't mean it HAS to be played loud, but it can give greater definition and quality to the sound at lower listening levels. I highly recommend it! A 4-channel amp is small and easily hidden. Most good quality amps will do what you need.

I installed stereos for 15 years so if you have any questions feel free to contact me. Have fun!

1968CutlassSupreme

What is the best way to cut the holes in the metal tray for the speakers? Where can I find the reproduction package trays?

Thanks!

Cincinnati Rick

I use a small reciprocating saw with a metal blade although the speaker cutouts may already be there. I'm sure you can use a whiz wheel on a pneumatic or electric rotary tool as well. I've "trimmed up" existing openings with tin snips. Not recommended if you have to take out a lot of metal.
Legendary and OPGI should have the reproduction package trays.

BangScreech4-4-2

Yes, the one I did ('68 4-4-2 hardtop) had existing room for speakers and all I cut was the package tray itself.

For a replacement, check out Year One or the catalogs of any other vendors who deal in A-body interior parts.

cjsdad

Tin snips! Any type of saw will leave metal filings all over your trunk. If you are right handed, the Left Cut, or red handled snips will work best for you. If you are left handed the green handled or Right Cut will work best. Use the new speaker grill or the speaker itself to mark the opening needed and use the snips to cut the hole. One side should have a 6X9 hole and mounting holes already. The side with rear defrost opening should have at least two holes that will line up with a 6X9 speaker. Mark the hole and cut it out as well as drill two new holes for the remaining mounting screws.

Koda

Before you cut metal of the body, be sure you want to do so, because there is no going back.

zeeke

12 Ga. wire is more than enough for a car. Also the kick panel speakers are not the best quality but if your budget allows get the kick panels and toss the speakers. Get good quality ones that fit. I don't know what they cost since I purchased mine with a pile of other parts off this site a few years back, but that's what I did.

Tymiles24

I got the same ones for my convertible from classicautosounds...I haven't put them in yet but they sent sound deadening patting to curb the rattling..

BangScreech4-4-2

Well, best of luck. Those are exactly the ones that I got. I've padded, insulated, and reinforced them 'til the cows come home and they still buzz. The thin ABS seems to be the culprit. Maybe the sound deadening material they gave you will help -- apparently they finally realized they have a problem.

1968CutlassSupreme

Thanks to all who are helping me!

Today's question is: what is the best way to cut the holes for the 6x9 speakers in the package tray? Do I need to remove the mesh that sits on top or do I just cut through it? Do I use the template to cut the hole in the mesh and then cut the holes in the metal?

I don't have any tin snips that seem to be strong enough to cut cleanly through steel, can I use a hacksaw? Should I cut from the top or is there a way to cut from the bottom?

I want to make sure I have everything right so I know exactly what I am doing before I make the first cut.

Thanks everyone!

cjsdad

Tin snips (aviation shears) are by far the best for cutting 6X9 holes in the rear package shelf. The passenger side should already have a 6X9 opening but for maximum performance it can be cut out slightly larger to fit the speaker better. The driver side will have cutouts for the defroster but the bolt holes will somewhat line up. Use the template that comes with your speakers (usually part of the box) and line the bolt holes as close as you can so the speakers will be symmetrical and mark the line to be cut. Cut from the bottom, or from inside the trunk. Cut the metal out first, then cut the insulation and hard board of the package tray cover. Believe it or not, a typical cheap, serrated steak knife will do the best job of cutting the insulation and board. The factory insulation may have punch-out marks in the insulation but it is smaller than the holes in the metal so cut it out to fit the new holes. You can get a new set of three snips at Wally World for less than $15 so don't be afraid of them. They aren't robust enough to go into business with but will do well for simple home projects. You can skim through youtube for how to use the snips best. No matter what the videos say, the green handle snips work best in the left hand and cutting clockwise circles. The red handles for right handed cutting counter-clockwise circles. That is not the correct manufacturer's design and application, but that is what works best.

Jeffs71

I've wanted to add speakers to the kick panels on my 71 convertible the previous owner stuck a couple below dash on wood plate...my question is how to remove the ***** that control the floor air vents. I have 2 on each side
tia

Skeetman

A good choice would be a Bluetooth speaker (Bose) and use your phone. You don't have to cut up your dash or package tray. That's what I use and the sound quality will be hard to beat with any aftermarket sound system and cost a whole lot less.

cjsdad

"No highs, no lows Bose" is never hard to beat. Bose has a very dynamic sound, but the frequency response is not always the best. Automotive environments can be the most difficult to create an accurate sound stage in and a bluetooth speaker would not be adequate for me. YMMV!

1968CutlassSupreme

Hey guys,

So I have everything installed and I noticed right before I installed the carpet and such that there was a pooling of water in the left front floorboard. I thought it was water coming in from a grommet through which the wires ran, but then I noticed a tricke line coming from just under the kick panel I installed. It looks like when it rains water is getting in behind the kick panel and leaking into the interior. How do I fix this? The original kick panel had the venting system that looks like it may have blocked off the water path with the vent housing. The new kick panels don't have any of that. It is just a speaker in a panel that is shaped like the original but it is just a "skin" - meaning there are no internals that would function the same as the original.

Any ideas on how to fix this?

Thanks!

cjsdad

The vent housing and A/C block-off kick panels had sealer on them to keep water from penetrating into the vehicle. The speaker kick panels don't. Back in the day I sometimes used duck tape to form a cavity between the inside metal and the outer to keep water off the speaker, I wasn't too terribly concerned with water getting inside the car. Clean everything well so the tape will stick and make an awning shaped cover for the opening between the inner and outer metal. If you run it down the sides far enough it will keep the water from getting inside the car. You could use expanding foam and then carve out a big enough cavity for the speaker to fit, but you have to make sure there is an escape for the water or it will cause bigger problems. Maybe put a plastic tube inside the cavity for water to drain through and use the foam.

1968CutlassSupreme

Do you have any problems with leakage when it rains? If not, what did you do to seal the water out (and assure the water is not collecting behind the panel?

Fun71

No problems with leakage either the factory or the aftermarket kick panels.

The kick panels don't seal against the elements, it is the metal body panel behind the kick panel that does that. The kick panel is just a plastic piece that is held in place by two screws - there is no sealer, gasket, etc to make a "seal" against the body panel behind it. If you're getting water leakage in that area, you need to look at the body panels behind the plastic kick panels for rust holes that are letting water in.

1968CutlassSupreme

Thanks everyone!

Kenneth, there are no rust holes. The path that water travels between the fender and the cowl down through the fender is being interrupted by the fresh air vent that is built into my aftermarket kick panel. When the water hits the "block" that allows fresh air into the cab, the water runs down the panel into the interior along the bottom of the kick panel. I need to seal the hole that was left by the original vent so the panel I bought will seal it off and keep water out.

Does anyone know what sealant was used from the factory between the original kick panel around the fresh air duct?