The "true" 442
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12,810
From: Evansville, IN
The "true" 442
I've seen this term being tossed around as the nom du jour for a 442 that is not a clone and it seems to be centered on the 68-71, as the package is less significant in 72, although it has a funny side effect in 67 and earlier. Usually it's on some ad. "67 442 (true 442, not a clone), has a strong running 455." The emphasis is placed on it being a real muscle car, despite it not being original powertrain, yet the difference between a Cutlass into which you transplanted a complete 455, and a 442 in which you did the same is very small. Plus the side effect of no one from this crowd transplants a 400 into a 69 and earlier; it's always a 455.
I'll make a few stipulations. One, it's late at night and I'm in between naps, so this really isn't anything but a semantics discussion and it doesn't bother me much. Certainly won't keep me up here in a bit. Two, I do draw a difference between a NOM car that cracked the block, and everything original except the block casting itself was kept for a correct repair, and a complete powertrain replacement. Three, not my car or cars, so whatever. However, my point is that the 5V on the cowl tag, or the 344 vin is nothing special in and of itself; it says the car came with this awesome equipment. If that awesome original equipment is gone, then there is very little difference between a "cloned Cutlass" and a "repowertrained 442." This is sort of a counterpart to the "what do you call a rebody" debate. Taken to its simplest, should a roller 442 be worth more than a roller Cutlass, other than the price addition of the rear sway bar and boxed control arms just because it has a different stamped tag?
I'll make a few stipulations. One, it's late at night and I'm in between naps, so this really isn't anything but a semantics discussion and it doesn't bother me much. Certainly won't keep me up here in a bit. Two, I do draw a difference between a NOM car that cracked the block, and everything original except the block casting itself was kept for a correct repair, and a complete powertrain replacement. Three, not my car or cars, so whatever. However, my point is that the 5V on the cowl tag, or the 344 vin is nothing special in and of itself; it says the car came with this awesome equipment. If that awesome original equipment is gone, then there is very little difference between a "cloned Cutlass" and a "repowertrained 442." This is sort of a counterpart to the "what do you call a rebody" debate. Taken to its simplest, should a roller 442 be worth more than a roller Cutlass, other than the price addition of the rear sway bar and boxed control arms just because it has a different stamped tag?
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,665
From: Jacksonville, FL
I think it all depends on the intended use.
If you want to do a complete restoration, I guess most people would want to start off with a 5V On the data tag. (Not that I did)
If you wanna go drag racing or just have a fun hot rod, it probably doesn’t matter. (Although I turned my rallye 350 into a drag car)
For some reason I feel there’s a difference between “true“ and “real“ 442.
True feels like everything should be in place just as the factory intended.
Real feels like the Vin or data tag prove that it was originally a 442.
Like you said, probably semantics.
If you want to do a complete restoration, I guess most people would want to start off with a 5V On the data tag. (Not that I did)
If you wanna go drag racing or just have a fun hot rod, it probably doesn’t matter. (Although I turned my rallye 350 into a drag car)
For some reason I feel there’s a difference between “true“ and “real“ 442.
True feels like everything should be in place just as the factory intended.
Real feels like the Vin or data tag prove that it was originally a 442.
Like you said, probably semantics.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,551
Interesting question. I don't think there's a clear-cut answer for it, however. Ironically, years ago, a friend of mine had a 67 442 4-speed he put a built 455 in. It was a monster, I have to admit. But, if I had a 67 442, I'd rather have the 67 400 instead of the 455, even in a Cutlass. Call me crazy. Unless you can get the original engine/transmission for the 442 roller, you can't really "de-transition" a transgender car. It's either born a 442, or it was born something else. It's what's on the birth certificate (build sheet) and how much is that worth to anyone wanting to buy it? How does it fit into your goals? Some people care, some don't. If you don't care, do whatever. If you do, you're probably not going to be looking for a "true" 442 roller specifically. You'll be looking for the complete car with original drivetrain.
I've always looked at the F-85, Cutlass, Vista, 442, etc., as variations of the same car. From the steering wheel forward, they pretty much look like the same car. Some more valuable than others. As a whole, they made 54 trillion (seemingly) A-body styles in various forms in the 60s and 70s. The meat and potatoes for me is the fact that breaking them down into sections, such as they made ???? amount of F-85s, ??? amount of Cutlasses, and ???? amount of 442s, etc., and so forth. So there was a much smaller number of 442s out of that pie. Until today, where 72 442 production seemed to multiply by 4, and every 442 ever made between 70-72 had a ram-air hood and a wing. Would I pay a little more for a 442 roller over a Cutlass roller in similar condition with the only difference the engine/trans was gone? Yes. Will I pay more for a "true" 442 if the engine has been replaced over an all original? No. Would I buy a Cutlass or F-85? Sure. But as always, condition and originality will make a huge difference in that amount I'd be willing to go.
It's no different than the H/Os. H/Os are intrinsically more expensive to buy and restore because of the special treatment they got from Hurst and the fewer in numbers to go around. They're really not much different than any other Tier 1 supplier car in the fact that those with affinity for those cars WILL dig deeper to pay for something they want, simply for that pedigree, original engine or not. In all cases I'm aware of, the H/Os past 68/69 didn't even have a different engine size options to itself, sort of diminishing that aura, though. 307/350/455. Those were your choices. Even so, a 72 H/O with a 350 replacement engine, or even a 403, would be considered either a deal breaker, or at least a significant discount, because they all were supposed to come with the 455.
Unfortunately, even a 442 with a 455 isn't all that and a bag of chips anymore. For example, most 442s, even W-30s, struggle to get into the 13s in the 1/4 mile, where I can go into the garage and hop into my stock ZL1 Camaro and smoke a bone stock 442 with any engine just about anywhere by probably at least a second or two and over 120 doing it. Amazing what 49 years can do for performance. But being the fastest kid on the block was never the point about loving the 442. At least for me.
I've always looked at the F-85, Cutlass, Vista, 442, etc., as variations of the same car. From the steering wheel forward, they pretty much look like the same car. Some more valuable than others. As a whole, they made 54 trillion (seemingly) A-body styles in various forms in the 60s and 70s. The meat and potatoes for me is the fact that breaking them down into sections, such as they made ???? amount of F-85s, ??? amount of Cutlasses, and ???? amount of 442s, etc., and so forth. So there was a much smaller number of 442s out of that pie. Until today, where 72 442 production seemed to multiply by 4, and every 442 ever made between 70-72 had a ram-air hood and a wing. Would I pay a little more for a 442 roller over a Cutlass roller in similar condition with the only difference the engine/trans was gone? Yes. Will I pay more for a "true" 442 if the engine has been replaced over an all original? No. Would I buy a Cutlass or F-85? Sure. But as always, condition and originality will make a huge difference in that amount I'd be willing to go.
It's no different than the H/Os. H/Os are intrinsically more expensive to buy and restore because of the special treatment they got from Hurst and the fewer in numbers to go around. They're really not much different than any other Tier 1 supplier car in the fact that those with affinity for those cars WILL dig deeper to pay for something they want, simply for that pedigree, original engine or not. In all cases I'm aware of, the H/Os past 68/69 didn't even have a different engine size options to itself, sort of diminishing that aura, though. 307/350/455. Those were your choices. Even so, a 72 H/O with a 350 replacement engine, or even a 403, would be considered either a deal breaker, or at least a significant discount, because they all were supposed to come with the 455.
Unfortunately, even a 442 with a 455 isn't all that and a bag of chips anymore. For example, most 442s, even W-30s, struggle to get into the 13s in the 1/4 mile, where I can go into the garage and hop into my stock ZL1 Camaro and smoke a bone stock 442 with any engine just about anywhere by probably at least a second or two and over 120 doing it. Amazing what 49 years can do for performance. But being the fastest kid on the block was never the point about loving the 442. At least for me.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,896
From: Sarasota Florida
Ok, I will bite..lol. I think the term “true 442” in the context of a listing is simply a term that has morphed stating the car listed was born a 442, not a cutlass. Now that doesn’t mean it’s a correct 442, only a born as 442. Advertised as an all original 442 should mean just that…with normal exceptions like brakes, water pump etc.
I believe all brands of 60’s early 70’s muscle owners feel there is more value to a born as car versus a non born as. I mean if you want a 67 RS SS Camaro you want it to be the real born as car, not a standard Camaro with RS/SS additions to it, same goes for GT Fords, 442’s SS Chevelles etc. From a pure standpoint of if they have all the same components then what’s the difference? For me and many others it’s a purist thing that probably hasn’t got a ton of rationale built into it. I will give you a for instance on my behalf..( not saying it’s right or wrong just my thoughts) my 66 442 was born a 4 barrel 4 speed car, I transitioned it into a dealer optioned 66 442 w30 aka trak pak car. If that dealership or over the counter option to buy the parts to do this wasn’t a factory available option then I would not have done it because in my warped brain it wouldn’t be pure enough if that makes sense. If I bought a 70 chevelle SS and was informed it was a ‘true car”, aka born as a SS ( here we go again lol) and found it it wasn’t I would be highly pissed off as a start no doubt. Now let’s say you could not tell the difference at all…it still wouldn’t be what I wanted..a true born as SS.. my two cents worth
I believe all brands of 60’s early 70’s muscle owners feel there is more value to a born as car versus a non born as. I mean if you want a 67 RS SS Camaro you want it to be the real born as car, not a standard Camaro with RS/SS additions to it, same goes for GT Fords, 442’s SS Chevelles etc. From a pure standpoint of if they have all the same components then what’s the difference? For me and many others it’s a purist thing that probably hasn’t got a ton of rationale built into it. I will give you a for instance on my behalf..( not saying it’s right or wrong just my thoughts) my 66 442 was born a 4 barrel 4 speed car, I transitioned it into a dealer optioned 66 442 w30 aka trak pak car. If that dealership or over the counter option to buy the parts to do this wasn’t a factory available option then I would not have done it because in my warped brain it wouldn’t be pure enough if that makes sense. If I bought a 70 chevelle SS and was informed it was a ‘true car”, aka born as a SS ( here we go again lol) and found it it wasn’t I would be highly pissed off as a start no doubt. Now let’s say you could not tell the difference at all…it still wouldn’t be what I wanted..a true born as SS.. my two cents worth
'72 Cutlass ragtop
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,321
From: Tampa, FL
"Mathematicians, like cows in the dark, all look alike to me." Abraham Flexner
In 2025, to the average non-car person (I'd venture of which there are far more than those of us whom are), they all look alike..... While I believe a faithfully maintained pedigree in the car world does speak louder than words, on the street, every non-car guy (and even some quasi-car guys) that has encountered my '72 at a red light, invariably calls from their window '442?' ("Nope, Cutlass")... or, "does it have a 442 (motor)..? ("Yep, sure does"!).
Now, I personally feel I can get away with the 2nd response because as all or most 70-72 442 people here know, '72 was essentially the wild card year for that option - you could basically get whatever Olds offered under the hood.. And besides, it's easier than feeling like I have to launch into an abbreviated explanation of the differences before the light turns green...
But so ok, technically it's still a Cutlass, even as I've upgraded it from the original 160-ish hp 350-2v, single exhaust, radio, a/c, whitewall special to its current 400hp 350 4-v roller cam, dual exhaust, dual sway bar, FE2 frame-connected, rear-trumpet exhaust bumpered self - i.e. specs well advanced of the factory 442 version, albeit sans call-out numbers, stripes and/or the seemingly obligatory wing...
I guess where I'm going with this is 2 somewhat converging directions - (a), we can and should still call our cars what they are, i.e. whether legit optioned 442 or Cutlass, and (b) even at that, will it really matter in another 20 or so years to our next gen offspring?
In 2025, to the average non-car person (I'd venture of which there are far more than those of us whom are), they all look alike..... While I believe a faithfully maintained pedigree in the car world does speak louder than words, on the street, every non-car guy (and even some quasi-car guys) that has encountered my '72 at a red light, invariably calls from their window '442?' ("Nope, Cutlass")... or, "does it have a 442 (motor)..? ("Yep, sure does"!).
Now, I personally feel I can get away with the 2nd response because as all or most 70-72 442 people here know, '72 was essentially the wild card year for that option - you could basically get whatever Olds offered under the hood.. And besides, it's easier than feeling like I have to launch into an abbreviated explanation of the differences before the light turns green...
But so ok, technically it's still a Cutlass, even as I've upgraded it from the original 160-ish hp 350-2v, single exhaust, radio, a/c, whitewall special to its current 400hp 350 4-v roller cam, dual exhaust, dual sway bar, FE2 frame-connected, rear-trumpet exhaust bumpered self - i.e. specs well advanced of the factory 442 version, albeit sans call-out numbers, stripes and/or the seemingly obligatory wing...
I guess where I'm going with this is 2 somewhat converging directions - (a), we can and should still call our cars what they are, i.e. whether legit optioned 442 or Cutlass, and (b) even at that, will it really matter in another 20 or so years to our next gen offspring?
Last edited by 70sgeek; Mar 30, 2025 at 07:10 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,928
I've seen this term being tossed around as the nom du jour for a 442 that is not a clone and it seems to be centered on the 68-71, as the package is less significant in 72, although it has a funny side effect in 67 and earlier. Usually it's on some ad. "67 442 (true 442, not a clone), has a strong running 455." The emphasis is placed on it being a real muscle car, despite it not being original powertrain, yet the difference between a Cutlass into which you transplanted a complete 455, and a 442 in which you did the same is very small. Plus the side effect of no one from this crowd transplants a 400 into a 69 and earlier; it's always a 455.
I'll make a few stipulations. One, it's late at night and I'm in between naps, so this really isn't anything but a semantics discussion and it doesn't bother me much. Certainly won't keep me up here in a bit. Two, I do draw a difference between a NOM car that cracked the block, and everything original except the block casting itself was kept for a correct repair, and a complete powertrain replacement. Three, not my car or cars, so whatever. However, my point is that the 5V on the cowl tag, or the 344 vin is nothing special in and of itself; it says the car came with this awesome equipment. If that awesome original equipment is gone, then there is very little difference between a "cloned Cutlass" and a "repowertrained 442." This is sort of a counterpart to the "what do you call a rebody" debate. Taken to its simplest, should a roller 442 be worth more than a roller Cutlass, other than the price addition of the rear sway bar and boxed control arms just because it has a different stamped tag?
I'll make a few stipulations. One, it's late at night and I'm in between naps, so this really isn't anything but a semantics discussion and it doesn't bother me much. Certainly won't keep me up here in a bit. Two, I do draw a difference between a NOM car that cracked the block, and everything original except the block casting itself was kept for a correct repair, and a complete powertrain replacement. Three, not my car or cars, so whatever. However, my point is that the 5V on the cowl tag, or the 344 vin is nothing special in and of itself; it says the car came with this awesome equipment. If that awesome original equipment is gone, then there is very little difference between a "cloned Cutlass" and a "repowertrained 442." This is sort of a counterpart to the "what do you call a rebody" debate. Taken to its simplest, should a roller 442 be worth more than a roller Cutlass, other than the price addition of the rear sway bar and boxed control arms just because it has a different stamped tag?
in the early years it was more than a few trim pieces and emblems
what you’re saying is the whole muscle car era is fakery or fluff without the drivetrain. but a lot of the muscle car era was handling and looks to go with it.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12,810
From: Evansville, IN
different springs, they had a lower stance and a quick ratio steering box + a thicker front sway bar. they definitely handled a lot better than a stock cutlass because it was a handing package as well
in the early years it was more than a few trim pieces and emblems
what you’re saying is the whole muscle car era is fakery or fluff without the drivetrain. but a lot of the muscle car era was handling and looks to go with it.
in the early years it was more than a few trim pieces and emblems
what you’re saying is the whole muscle car era is fakery or fluff without the drivetrain. but a lot of the muscle car era was handling and looks to go with it.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 254
Here's my hierarchy:
- Born as 442 with all the original equipment
- Born as a 442 with original equipment replaced based on something breaking and needing replaced
- Born as 442 that someone decided it needed to be more, so the replaced thing to "improve" it. This includes things like suspension upgrades, etc
- Nothing to verify it was born a 442, but there's some reasonable feasibility that it is a 442
- Clones
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 512
From: ROCHESTER NY
Interesting question. I don't think there's a clear-cut answer for it, however. Ironically, years ago, a friend of mine had a 67 442 4-speed he put a built 455 in. It was a monster, I have to admit. But, if I had a 67 442, I'd rather have the 67 400 instead of the 455, even in a Cutlass. Call me crazy. Unless you can get the original engine/transmission for the 442 roller, you can't really "de-transition" a transgender car. It's either born a 442, or it was born something else. It's what's on the birth certificate (build sheet) and how much is that worth to anyone wanting to buy it? How does it fit into your goals? Some people care, some don't. If you don't care, do whatever. If you do, you're probably not going to be looking for a "true" 442 roller specifically. You'll be looking for the complete car with original drivetrain.
I've always looked at the F-85, Cutlass, Vista, 442, etc., as variations of the same car. From the steering wheel forward, they pretty much look like the same car. Some more valuable than others. As a whole, they made 54 trillion (seemingly) A-body styles in various forms in the 60s and 70s. The meat and potatoes for me is the fact that breaking them down into sections, such as they made ???? amount of F-85s, ??? amount of Cutlasses, and ???? amount of 442s, etc., and so forth. So there was a much smaller number of 442s out of that pie. Until today, where 72 442 production seemed to multiply by 4, and every 442 ever made between 70-72 had a ram-air hood and a wing. Would I pay a little more for a 442 roller over a Cutlass roller in similar condition with the only difference the engine/trans was gone? Yes. Will I pay more for a "true" 442 if the engine has been replaced over an all original? No. Would I buy a Cutlass or F-85? Sure. But as always, condition and originality will make a huge difference in that amount I'd be willing to go.
It's no different than the H/Os. H/Os are intrinsically more expensive to buy and restore because of the special treatment they got from Hurst and the fewer in numbers to go around. They're really not much different than any other Tier 1 supplier car in the fact that those with affinity for those cars WILL dig deeper to pay for something they want, simply for that pedigree, original engine or not. In all cases I'm aware of, the H/Os past 68/69 didn't even have a different engine size options to itself, sort of diminishing that aura, though. 307/350/455. Those were your choices. Even so, a 72 H/O with a 350 replacement engine, or even a 403, would be considered either a deal breaker, or at least a significant discount, because they all were supposed to come with the 455.
Unfortunately, even a 442 with a 455 isn't all that and a bag of chips anymore. For example, most 442s, even W-30s, struggle to get into the 13s in the 1/4 mile, where I can go into the garage and hop into my stock ZL1 Camaro and smoke a bone stock 442 with any engine just about anywhere by probably at least a second or two and over 120 doing it. Amazing what 49 years can do for performance. But being the fastest kid on the block was never the point about loving the 442. At least for me.
I've always looked at the F-85, Cutlass, Vista, 442, etc., as variations of the same car. From the steering wheel forward, they pretty much look like the same car. Some more valuable than others. As a whole, they made 54 trillion (seemingly) A-body styles in various forms in the 60s and 70s. The meat and potatoes for me is the fact that breaking them down into sections, such as they made ???? amount of F-85s, ??? amount of Cutlasses, and ???? amount of 442s, etc., and so forth. So there was a much smaller number of 442s out of that pie. Until today, where 72 442 production seemed to multiply by 4, and every 442 ever made between 70-72 had a ram-air hood and a wing. Would I pay a little more for a 442 roller over a Cutlass roller in similar condition with the only difference the engine/trans was gone? Yes. Will I pay more for a "true" 442 if the engine has been replaced over an all original? No. Would I buy a Cutlass or F-85? Sure. But as always, condition and originality will make a huge difference in that amount I'd be willing to go.
It's no different than the H/Os. H/Os are intrinsically more expensive to buy and restore because of the special treatment they got from Hurst and the fewer in numbers to go around. They're really not much different than any other Tier 1 supplier car in the fact that those with affinity for those cars WILL dig deeper to pay for something they want, simply for that pedigree, original engine or not. In all cases I'm aware of, the H/Os past 68/69 didn't even have a different engine size options to itself, sort of diminishing that aura, though. 307/350/455. Those were your choices. Even so, a 72 H/O with a 350 replacement engine, or even a 403, would be considered either a deal breaker, or at least a significant discount, because they all were supposed to come with the 455.
Unfortunately, even a 442 with a 455 isn't all that and a bag of chips anymore. For example, most 442s, even W-30s, struggle to get into the 13s in the 1/4 mile, where I can go into the garage and hop into my stock ZL1 Camaro and smoke a bone stock 442 with any engine just about anywhere by probably at least a second or two and over 120 doing it. Amazing what 49 years can do for performance. But being the fastest kid on the block was never the point about loving the 442. At least for me.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,928
Interesting question. I don't think there's a clear-cut answer for it, however. Ironically, years ago, a friend of mine had a 67 442 4-speed he put a built 455 in. It was a monster, I have to admit. But, if I had a 67 442, I'd rather have the 67 400 instead of the 455, even in a Cutlass. Call me crazy. Unless you can get the original engine/transmission for the 442 roller, you can't really "de-transition" a transgender car. It's either born a 442, or it was born something else. It's what's on the birth certificate (build sheet) and how much is that worth to anyone wanting to buy it? How does it fit into your goals? Some people care, some don't. If you don't care, do whatever. If you do, you're probably not going to be looking for a "true" 442 roller specifically. You'll be looking for the complete car with original drivetrain.
I've always looked at the F-85, Cutlass, Vista, 442, etc., as variations of the same car. From the steering wheel forward, they pretty much look like the same car. Some more valuable than others. As a whole, they made 54 trillion (seemingly) A-body styles in various forms in the 60s and 70s. The meat and potatoes for me is the fact that breaking them down into sections, such as they made ???? amount of F-85s, ??? amount of Cutlasses, and ???? amount of 442s, etc., and so forth. So there was a much smaller number of 442s out of that pie. Until today, where 72 442 production seemed to multiply by 4, and every 442 ever made between 70-72 had a ram-air hood and a wing. Would I pay a little more for a 442 roller over a Cutlass roller in similar condition with the only difference the engine/trans was gone? Yes. Will I pay more for a "true" 442 if the engine has been replaced over an all original? No. Would I buy a Cutlass or F-85? Sure. But as always, condition and originality will make a huge difference in that amount I'd be willing to go.
It's no different than the H/Os. H/Os are intrinsically more expensive to buy and restore because of the special treatment they got from Hurst and the fewer in numbers to go around. They're really not much different than any other Tier 1 supplier car in the fact that those with affinity for those cars WILL dig deeper to pay for something they want, simply for that pedigree, original engine or not. In all cases I'm aware of, the H/Os past 68/69 didn't even have a different engine size options to itself, sort of diminishing that aura, though. 307/350/455. Those were your choices. Even so, a 72 H/O with a 350 replacement engine, or even a 403, would be considered either a deal breaker, or at least a significant discount, because they all were supposed to come with the 455.
Unfortunately, even a 442 with a 455 isn't all that and a bag of chips anymore. For example, most 442s, even W-30s, struggle to get into the 13s in the 1/4 mile, where I can go into the garage and hop into my stock ZL1 Camaro and smoke a bone stock 442 with any engine just about anywhere by probably at least a second or two and over 120 doing it. Amazing what 49 years can do for performance. But being the fastest kid on the block was never the point about loving the 442. At least for me.
I've always looked at the F-85, Cutlass, Vista, 442, etc., as variations of the same car. From the steering wheel forward, they pretty much look like the same car. Some more valuable than others. As a whole, they made 54 trillion (seemingly) A-body styles in various forms in the 60s and 70s. The meat and potatoes for me is the fact that breaking them down into sections, such as they made ???? amount of F-85s, ??? amount of Cutlasses, and ???? amount of 442s, etc., and so forth. So there was a much smaller number of 442s out of that pie. Until today, where 72 442 production seemed to multiply by 4, and every 442 ever made between 70-72 had a ram-air hood and a wing. Would I pay a little more for a 442 roller over a Cutlass roller in similar condition with the only difference the engine/trans was gone? Yes. Will I pay more for a "true" 442 if the engine has been replaced over an all original? No. Would I buy a Cutlass or F-85? Sure. But as always, condition and originality will make a huge difference in that amount I'd be willing to go.
It's no different than the H/Os. H/Os are intrinsically more expensive to buy and restore because of the special treatment they got from Hurst and the fewer in numbers to go around. They're really not much different than any other Tier 1 supplier car in the fact that those with affinity for those cars WILL dig deeper to pay for something they want, simply for that pedigree, original engine or not. In all cases I'm aware of, the H/Os past 68/69 didn't even have a different engine size options to itself, sort of diminishing that aura, though. 307/350/455. Those were your choices. Even so, a 72 H/O with a 350 replacement engine, or even a 403, would be considered either a deal breaker, or at least a significant discount, because they all were supposed to come with the 455.
Unfortunately, even a 442 with a 455 isn't all that and a bag of chips anymore. For example, most 442s, even W-30s, struggle to get into the 13s in the 1/4 mile, where I can go into the garage and hop into my stock ZL1 Camaro and smoke a bone stock 442 with any engine just about anywhere by probably at least a second or two and over 120 doing it. Amazing what 49 years can do for performance. But being the fastest kid on the block was never the point about loving the 442. At least for me.
the 73 was available with the W30 L75 U code option. was that available on any cutlass?
75 W30 option on H/O got K heads
79 H/O W30 got a 350 which wasn’t available in any cutlass that year
the 83/84 got hi output 307’s
Last edited by CANADIANOLDS; Apr 1, 2025 at 09:00 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,026
Back in the mid 60s, the Olds engineers and GMPD had a somewhat different outlook than what is popular today. All the 66 W30s at the NHRA Nationals in 66--which was the ultimate goal for the program back then--were "conversions" with the W30 parts (colloquially called cold air package) being added shortly before Labor Day. The factory built 54 cars existed to legitimize the conversion, as far as the engineers were concerned. You could buy every part to convert an F85 or Cutlass to a 4-4-2 from GMPD. In addition to individual parts, they offered conversion packages called "induction package" and "Tri-Carb conversion." You could also buy the complete Tri-Carb engine. In the early to mid 1970s, the 66-67 W30s were just worn out old cars and priced accordingly. There was no such thing as a Track Pack--the factory called it conversion package or pkg. No. 1 on the parts box. Curt Anderson and Don Henrichs came up with the track pack moniker in the 1980s. That moniker helped to initiate the sorting out by pedantics of factory builds vs. conversions for valuation. On one hand, there is an attraction to the factory builds. On the other hand, the conversions with race history have their followers.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
