What are your thoughts not necessarily on cloning or recreating but my question is more related to value difference. Lets say you saw a recreation done so well but seller being honest about it. Now you saw an original just as nice, apples to apples on quality and correctness..what would be the price difference between two such cars?
Considering early 442’s were nothing but cutlass optioned cars I felt it a good discussion from the experts perspective.

 

Hi,

All depends upon price difference and what's your intention for the car.

If you are into numbers matching show car, then a clone wouldn't work.


If your dragging the car in a stock class might not matter..

If you have the mindset that you have to own a real one,, then the clone won't

If you're going to flip it after a few years a original would hold it's value better.

If you're planning on keeping it forever a clone might be perfect, especially if your going to modify things down the road

Good luck with the potential decisions
Regards,
Jim

 

Fake 442s, H/Os, W30s are a touchy topic. I really don't care how "well done" they are, they should not be priced more than a regular Cutlass in comparable condition. While looking for a car the past year, I got sick and tired of seeing badged up fake cars with exorbitant pricing. At some point someone will get hosed when the cars are sold in years to come. I'm quite sure there are more "W30" examples out there than were ever produced and now that fake broadcast cards are available the odds of getting burnt are higher than ever.

tc

 

50% value for a clone.

 

I agree with you.

 

For a 68-71 Cutlass supreme cloned into a 442, my guess 0 - 20% more than a Cutlass supreme in the same condition.
In dollars, a "perfect-rust free" 442 clone with a 455, my guess $20k max.
A beat up and tired real-442 that runs and drives, but needs work, 25K plus.

The price increase is for the commonly sought after options such as OAI, and a 455.

As you are probably aware, the VIN number beginning with "344" means Oldsmobile, Model "Model 442".
The dedicated 442-code was only on cars 1968 - 1971.
For all other years you will need the Build-Sheet or similar documentation to prove its the real thing.

Here are some common First-3 digit VIN combinations.
331xxxxxxxxx F-85 Standard 6 Cyl.
332xxxxxxxxx F-85 Standard 8 Cyl.
335xxxxxxxxx Cutlass, Cutlass S 6 Cyl.
336xxxxxxxxx Cutlass, Cutlass S 8 Cyl.
342xxxxxxxxx Cutlass Supreme
344xxxxxxxxx Models 442 [1968-71 only]

 

70-72 Cutlass Supreme's with 442 emblems are one of the lamest fakes ever.

Chosing a price point on an imitation anything has so many factors. I have never understood dumping big cash into a non 442/GS/GTO/SS etc. By the time you are done spending all the cash it takes you should have just spent the money for the real model to begin with.

It is so correct on way more "W-30" cars out there than there were new. GSX's are probably even more so. So sick of every "tribute" FAKE car. No offense to all those out there. Just not my gig. I would rather have a 70 Cutlass with Cutlass emblems than crooked 442 emblems any day. How many Oldsmobiles have an OAI hood and a spoiler now compared to factory made. GSX's are probably even worse. Only two colors to chose from on a 70. So many Skylarks and GS 350 cars redone as a GSX.

 

Not trying to be cute or anything Koda, is this based on sales data or your opinion? Reason i say that is If your talking ultra rare, then yes I would agree. But cutlass versus 442, both done correct..not sure I would agree.. I am looking at a 66 beautiful track pack recreation, its done better than factory original..the guy is upfront and said its a recreation, oai system ,w30 cam the whole banana. I ask if its a true 442 turned into a track car and he says he really doesn’t know if its a cutlass or 442 as he started with a shell. So now ya know what I am referring to..I figure a true 442 with a created track pack is still a high value car, so if its a cutlass done to so well that you wouldn’t know since its a alleged fremont car worth half? I realize its what someone is willing to pay, just trying to get a barometer on this. Now can you see where I am coming from..if you saw the car, you would not be able to tell one way or the other..

 

I believe that a 5V code on a Fisher Body tag on 64 thru 67's was also a sure indication of an original 442 .

 

Yes, the 5V is body piercings for 442 badges, however, Lansing and Framingham (I believe that's the name) used them, and Fremont did something weird. This is why cars you wonder about being cloned 442s of that year are Fremont cars. All W-30s are Lansing cars, so you can at LEAST start with the cowl tag is from a Lansing 442 of a specific date range for 66s and 67s.

 

Hmm, not sure I would go along with that but appreciate your good perspective..it costs a lot of money to recreate a vehicle into a more desirable image, not sure it would yield no extra value but respect your opinion my friend..however you are very correct that somebody down the line will not be honest..creates a new problem..

 

not-on Fremont California cars

 

Think of it this way. If you’re buying a ring for your woman, do you pay full diamond price for a cubic zirconia?

While they both look the same to a casual viewer, they are obviously different to a qualified appraiser. And an insurance underwriter.

 

And of course it isa fremont car.. he is selling as a track pack recreation not a W30 recreation..if there is a difference? It’s such a beautiful well done car he told me he has over 70k in high end chrome, parts, engine everything. The oai is original non numbered shroud obviously re- popped hoses and bumper intakes. I would personally feel much better if I KNEW it was-a true 442 cloned into the track pack as they named them many yearsafter the fact..If you saw it, you would understand the dilemna..

 

I hear ya..I will never own a true W30 car as I could never drive it without the fun being killed by worry, so this is intriguing.. like I said earlierif I knew it was a true 442 then upgraded with tricarb, oai, battery mounted in trunk, w30 cam, factory correct exhaust etc I would feel much better..but not know if its a cutlass or not.. its a real dilemna.. from everything I have read you cannot prove oneway or the other without pop, or purchase agreement. ButI would know...

 

That estimate was based off my experience in this hobby.

Ok, the majority of 66/67 clones are Fremont cars, because of the cowl tag. I hesitate to call myself an expert, but I think the year I know the most about is 67. In 67, if you wanted the "OAI" kit, you went to the dealership, plonked down $187 or whatever it was, got a wicked air duct system, some battery parts, and a cam and lifters. One weekend later, you have a 442 with what Curt Anderson coined a Track Pack.

In 66 it's different. There were a lot less air shrouds around, and I do not know if the kit from above was available at the parts counter; it may have been. I don't know if the L-69 carb setup was available as a kit originally, but I heard the extra carb setups after the tri-power ban went down were. I don't know if L-69 cars came from Fremont or not.

Hypothetically, if a legit 442 were to have the "track pack" added, (w-30 cam, L-69 intake and carbs, W-30 shroud and battery relo), I would value it at the price of a 442 plus the price of the goodies. A true w-30 is worth more than that. So, our legit 66 442 is worth say 40, an L-69 setup is 4k, a shroud and system is probably 6k or more, so I'd call that a 50k car. A 66 W-30 is a 80-90k car.

Now a 66 Cutlass is not worth 40k, it's worth 18k. But, it has a nice 442 engine (5k), and the above 10k in goodies, so I'd say it'd be worth 33k. So a little more than 50%, but that's how I figure it.

Edit:
Hrrrm. A "track pack" could be put on any 442 because you were buying it. Dealer conversions were at their discretion. W-30s have a lot more than just the track pack. I am not a 66 expert, but they were race cars. No AC, manual brakes, specific high numerical rear ends. It needs to be proven it was a 442 or it's not, is my stance. There's ways to do that.

 

Really it has been said many times. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay. If it is worth it to you buy it.

Where did all the drivetrain components come from? Donor car? Do the the drive train numbers and date built numbers fit? Where did all other parts come from? Pieced together? No insult just a question.

I think another point that always comes up about non true cars is who gets burned down the road?

 

Thank you for posting the VIN numbers. Always always helpful for many of us.

 

I knew a guy with a factory 69 W-32. Talk about a hard car to prove. Super super cool to see dirty untouched original outside air scoops and clamps all in place still. One of my favorite original Oldsmobile memories. I have lost touch with him but I know he got it done. I never saw it finished.

 

Appreciate the insight..

 

I couldn’t begin to count the number of time people have asked me why I didn’t put the OAI hood on my car, or the wing, and don’t get me started on the “Chevelle” stripes on the trunk! It’s pretty sad when you have to leave a stock hood on the car to be different!!

I bet there are many more Z/28 Camaro on the streets now than were ever built. There use to be a time when a Z/28 was something special.

I do agree with having little desire to own a factory W-30 car, too many idiots on the road. The worries of damage would take a lot of the enjoyment out of driving something special.

One of my many dream cars is a 68 hurst Olds. I’m well aware I’ll probably never have one. I have zero desire to own a car that is never driven, so if I did have one I’d prefer either a older restoration, or a worn out original. Just my opinion.

A seller starts high, the buyer starts low, and hopefully you meet somewhere in the middle. I look at it this way, if you find the perfect car, done exactly the way you want it, and it’s in your price range, who really cares if you pay a little more than it’s worth? Chances are you couldn’t build one exactly the way you want any cheaper. Especially in the case of a clone (or tribute, fake, whatever you want to call it) if it has reproduction or original factory special parts that you want on your personal car, it might be worth paying a little over what it’s worth. I know my car is worth far more as parts than I would likely to ever get out of it if I tried to sell it.