KQQLCAT

That's all I need. Maybe one good thing can come from this because I'm sure that the politicians are aware of this now that it wouldn't be a good idea.

coltsneckbob

I wouldn't worry about this. The cost of administering the tax would far exceed the revenue potential. PLUS:

-You can't tax someone for owning something
-The article next to it says Polka Dancing reduces colon cancer!!!!!!
-Were it true the States would fight it
-Anyone with any type of collectible would fight it
-If only the "rich" own these cars don't you think they are friends with other rich and powerful that would shoot this down.

LOL

joe_padavano

Wanna bet? Ever hear of personal property tax? Real estate tax?

Diego

Including me?

Higgins

You are so right Joe. As a matter of fact you can never really own anything in this country. Try not paying income tax or property tax and see how long you get to keep what you think you own.
Higgins

aliensatemybuick

Guess you'll have to answer that for yourself. As for me, I've said plenty I wished I didn't.

TK-65

I sat and read the ROP thread in utter disbelief. I now know why people send their money to Nigerian scammers. People believe most anything they read or hear.

Diego

I bet it wasn't to the degree of some of that stuff in that thread. You've always been reasonable as far as I can recall.

MDchanic

In Maine, you pay an annual "excise tax" to your town (and AT your town hall) for owning your car, based on its value as a percentage of original sticker price over time. No tax, no sticker from the DMV (separate fee for registration through DMV).
There is also an annual "business equipment tax" on anything your business might own, including computers, typewriters, vehicles, etc.

- Eric

WTony

Joe I was just thinking about the "personal property" tax also, thats in most of the states in the south east. One reason I wont move to Va, NC or SC. Not sure about Ga but I know Fl doesnt have it.

chequenman

We got to remember it was an April Fools prank.....

rocketraider

Yeah, and there are at least two NY state AACA members who have called Sen Schumer's office in the last two days and have been told that yes, he is working up such a proposal. Maybe his way of getting back at us with his own joke, maybe true. Who knows?

Still bothers me that a group of car guys (who would themselves stand to lose immensely given the cars they own) would try to foist some schit like this on the hobby, knowing full well that governments are ALWAYS looking for new sources of revenue. And here they go giving them ideas.

Diego

Nothing was "foisted." It was a good joke that fooled people who weren't even supposed to see it. If there's any fault at hand, it's at the people who accept every friggin' thing they read. Maybe my youth has trained me to be skeptical, but we're all adults, so the fault lies where it may.

MDchanic

+1.

Any April Fools gag that gets people going is a good one.

- Eric

Toledobend

Reminds me of the "War of the Worlds" broadcast, but that was on Halloween not April 1st. There was panic in the streets then. This time there was panic in the garages.

coltsneckbob

That is not a tax for owning a home. That is a tax for municipal services your local government provides you. It is based on an assessed value of the home that is true, but technically not a tax on ownership.

coltsneckbob

Again the tax on your car is technically not a tax on ownership. It is a tax for support of state roads, lic plates etc. The bus equip tax - which is commonly referred to as a capital tax - is a way jurisdictions get tax on business that have locations within the jurisdiction, but might not report income to the jurisdiction. Granted there is a lot of overlap between this tax and an income tax. Furthermore, it is a tax on an entity not individual ownership.

WTony

Bob personal property tax is a state tax you pay on each car, motorcycle, boat, RV or anything you register thru DMV. Its a yearly tax based on the value of your belongings for that perticular year.

coltsneckbob

As far as I understand this kind of tax is not a recurring tax and therefore is not a tax on ownership, but more of a transaction tax (e.g. sales tax or inheritance tax).

WTony

IMO it is technically a tax on ownership. If you didnt own it, you wouldnt have to pay tax on it.

WTony

Not true. It is paid EVERY year. Its called personal property tax. Joe mentioned it because he is from Va. My cousin is from Va Beach and he drives junk so the tax will be less every year. He could certainly afford a new car, but prefers to keep his money rather than share it with the government.

coltsneckbob

OK, I respectfully disagree. The tax is for the wear and tear on the infrastructure or environment your property causes. I can own a car and not register it and not pay these taxes. As a car collector might very well do. Otherwise, why would the tax man not tax high priced art work on a recurring basis? Or your expensive shoes on a recurring basis? Remember the key element here (which I may not have made clear before) is a tax on ownership would be a recurring tax imposed mearly for the possession of an object. A tax on a purchase, or a tax for use of an object that affects the environment is not an ownership tax.

joe_padavano

ALL taxes are just a way to collect funds from the public for use by the government to pay for services provided. By your definition, income tax isn't a tax on income...

By the way, here in VA, if I title a car, even if I don't register it, I have to pay annual personal property tax.

WTony

OK but my point is:
It doesnt matter where or what the tax money is used for im my opinion. If I own a car, reguardless if its a collector car or new car, and the county collects money from me EVERY year for the state, Its a re-occuring tax. THAT is the point Im trying to make. You said it is not taxed every year, it is.

And as Joe said, if its titled, you pay the tax. I agree with what you said, if you dont title it you can get away with no tax on the vehical. But, technically you supposed to title every car you purchase so they can collect their "sales" tax. Not to mention its illegal to sell any vehical without titling it in your name first. Thats called flipping cars and is punishable by law with fines if caught.

MDchanic

Not in this case.

The fee to the DMV is for that.

The separate tax paid to your town at the town hall goes to all town services, just like your property tax does, not specifically to vehicle-related services.
It is truly a tax on property that you own, based on its purported value (standard annual depreciation from sticker price), because you own it.
Rich towns, with lots of fancy cars, get more of it, poor towns, with lots of beat-up pickup trucks, get less of it, just like property taxes.'

- Eric

coltsneckbob

OK....I give up

What ever the legal definition of the tax....if you feel it is a tax on ownership then that is what it amounts to. However, it is my firm belief that if anyone did propose a tax on simply the ownership of a collector vehicle it could be challenged in court and it would be defeated. However, that said.....I could easily envision a tax on cars without any emissions controls being passed and being legitimate. After all, even though the pollution from from our remaining classic cars are miniscule in the grand scheme of tail pipe emissions it is fair game.

MDchanic

The great thing about the ownership tax here is that it is just the opposite -
since the amount is derived from the sticker price depreciated at a set rate per year, owners of old cars pay next to nothing .

- Eric

442much

There is no tax or whatever you want to call it on cars here IF you don't register them. You pay for registration and your sticker for you plate, that I suppose, could be considered a tax. There is tax at the gas pump. The more gas you use, the more tax you pay. That's why you see higher gas prices here even though the oil is refined here and turned into gasoline. That tax goes towards the highways and road maintenance. There is no luxury tax on anything over a certain amount. But government's make up for it in other ways.

joe_padavano

Maybe where you live this is true. Again, here in Virginia, there is a personal property tax. This is a state tax that is applied as soon as you title the car. You don't need to register it, just title it, and the tax is billed.

And yes, the tax for infrastructure is the highway tax on gasoline. The personal property tax is used by the state for general budget purposes, NOT highways. Much of the personal property tax is returned to the local governments for schools and other such purposes. Sadly, here in VA, those of us in Northern VA pay WAAAY more tax than the state returns to this area. (Sorry to rant, Glenn )

rocketraider

Joe, the way I understand it, the locality cannot levy PP tax on a car that is not registered and plated, though I have noticed certain localities are more aggressive about it than others. If that were not the case I'd be getting hammered on a couple of cars that are still titled to me and parked out on the farm and have not been licensed in years.

City of Danville tried to levy an "unlicensed vehicle license fee" on cars that were not currently registered and ran afoul of the state laws concerning PP tax. The noble idea was to clean out junkers from back yards, but the trouble was they made no distinction between junkers and say, a restored trailer queen whose owner had no intent of ever driving it and did not license it for road use.

You ought to watch the Southside and especially Southwest counties trying to get anything out of Richmond. They don't even get back what they pay in taxes and other state mandated fees either. That's why you have to watch things like this post's original topic, because they're all scratching for any revenue source they can find. That, I think, is what set everyone off- they know guvminks want that revenue, and will come up with creative ways to get it.

###

Raleigh news this morning said that the last four redlight camera holdouts in NC are giving it up. Why? They were told point blank that any fines they collected from camera-generated tickets had to, by state law, go to public schools and could not be put into the locality's general fund to do with as they pleased- losing a nice fat revenue stream in other words.

So that has confirmed to me that redlight cameras never were about safety as their proponents claimed- they were about revenue.

joe_padavano

Yeah, Loudoun Co. is definitely one of those "more aggressive" jurisdictions.

And at least the red light cameras aren't a blatant as they were when Lockheed Martin was operating them as a FOR PROFIT venture.

coltsneckbob

This tax sounds unconstitutional - for several reasons. It is not an equitable tax in that all cars do not depreciate equally. Furthermore, 2 people could buy the exact same car and pay widely different prices - thus was relevance is the sticker price to base a tax on? On a much more tricky and subtle issue is that this sounds like double taxation (actually more then double). Unless this is a sales tax that actually works to spread the tax out over a number of years - but then it fails on the sticker price issue.

Are you certain you fully explained this tax? Do you have a URL I can go to for an explanation?

coltsneckbob

What else does this presonal property tax apply to?

MDchanic

Against the FEDERAL Constitution, maybe, but then, so are NJ's gun laws...


Nope - sales tax is different - 5%.


I got your URL right here.

- Eric

coltsneckbob

I went to the W VA gov website and the DMV. The only mention of property taxes is related to real estate. The DMV describes how one must pay a sales tax on purchase of a car and the fees associated with registration and licensing etc. So, I am mighty confused over this personal property tax......as I've said before as described here it does not seem legal.

coltsneckbob

Ah, well here you this is what I've been saying all along (from that URL)

Excise Tax is an annual tax that must be paid prior to registering your vehicle. Except for a few statutory exemptions, all vehicles registered in the State of Maine are subject to the Excise Tax.
Excise Tax is defined by State Statute as a tax levied annually for the privilege of operating a motor vehicle or camper trailer on the public ways.


It is not a tax on ownership it is on USE (operation) of the vehicle. Perhaps that distinction doesn't mean much to your wallet , but it means a lot in terms of legality.

I do find the fact that the tax is based on MSRP as odd and I wonder why no one there challenges it. They state that it insures everyone in the state who drives the same vehicle pays the same tax, but at least in some states the MSRP of the very same car may not be the same in two widely separate locations. Certainly the MSRP can vary between states....so what happens when you buy a car in another state and move to ME. ? You might wind up paying more/less then someone driving the very same vehicle. Also, the MRSP is artifical. The excise tax as defined in ME is not like any other tax in that respect.....i.e. based on an artifical measure. This aspect of it should also mean it should be challenged.

MDchanic

They can call it what they want - it's a tax separate from the motor vehicle fees, which goes into the general fund of your town, so it's not really a car-related tax.

Perhaps, but it it were abolished, they'd just tack it onto my property tax, and it would be the same in the end.

- Eric

coltsneckbob

Well, Eric...............on that point we agree.

bil

New hampshire has a yearly excise tax like Maine.I just moved from Vt,but my business is still in Vt,registered there.You only pay once,first time you register. ---bil

Higgins

In Michigan, license plate fees are considered personal property tax based on value and therefore are tax deductable. Mototcycles, trailers and boats are not because the fee is base on weight or size or flat fee, not value.
The most unfair and uncontestible taxes are property taxes. Why should people who don't own property be able to vote on millage increases? The assessors word is law too. They actually increased my property taxes and values this year even though I had a professional appraisal done showing my values declined by half over the last 3 years. Like they say, you can't fight City Hall.