atkinsom

Hi Everyone,

I live in a northern climate and I'm wondering what everyone else does here when storing their cars during winter. Last winter I would roll it out onto the clean driveway and start it up once every 1-2 weeks and let it run for about 30 minutes. Roll it back and start the process all over again a week or so later.

Spoke to a local guy and he said that doing what I do is bad for the motor because it never reaches proper operating temp and won't burn off moisture which will lead to problems in these old engines. He said it's best to just leave it and start it once in the spring. Not sure about this but figured I would ask the experts here on classic. Thanx everyone for any help

67 442

I will be curious to hear other comments. I have been told that starting your car to let your friend hear it run and then shutting it down will cause the issues you describe.

If you bring it up to operating temp I don't see any issues. It's the cold start and quick shutdown scenario that causes problems.

I crack my garage door, start it up, let it run until it gets to 190 and then I shut her down and close the garage door. As a bonus the heat from the engine usually warms the garage enough to make it nice and toasty.

wmachine

"Local guy" is correct. It is better to bring it up to temperature than it is to do anything less, *but* that is not enough to drive out all of the moisture. If you don't believe that, start up your car from dead cold, run it up to temp and look at your tailpipes. You'll probably still see water dripping and if you don't, put your hand onto the exhaust and you'll feel the moisture.
What it really amounts to is that you have very little to gain by periodic starts and much more to lose.
Same with motorcycles, FWIW. You'll get the same answer from a HD dealer.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I have a piece of old washer hose that i connect to the end of my tailpipe and run outside when i'm doing Engine stuff. It gets to be colder than minus 40 Farenheit here in Montreal. So i doubt my cutlass would even start up in those temperatures.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Sorry, Dryer hose.

bulldog

I back mine into the garage,pull the battery,change the oil,put 60 lbs of preasure in the tires. I then put the car cover on it and don't pull it off until spring. Not sure if thats the recommended way but I've been storing my cars this way for 40 + years with no issues.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Sixty pounds??! that sounds like alot considering it should be somewhere around 30?

oldcutlass

30 mins of run time is enough to burn off what ever moisture that is going to build up. If you have no intention on driving it thru the winter, I would just disconnect the battery, top all the fluids, and let it sit. Come spring give the battery a deep cycle charge, change the oil, and run it!

67 442

So you guys don't worry about flat spots developing on your cam or springs sticking, etc?

I have always been told that an engine needs to be turned over every couple of weeks for those reasons.

BOOWAH

The first year I had my 72 Cutlass "S" I put it in a Storage Facility after changing the oil, filling the gas tank and adding Stabul, pulling the battery, and covering it with a breathable car cover! Big mistake! When I opened the overhead door 4 months later to check on it, the car cover was soaked! I reinstalled the battery to remove it from there, and the choke was stuck. It backfired like crazy, started and stumbled for at least the next 15 minutes before it levelled out!
Since then I have been storing it over the winter in my unheated garage at home. I still change the oil and add Stabul to a full tank of gas, but the battery stays in, and I overinflate the tires to 38 psi! I go out once a month, uncover it, and start it up! I run it for approx 20 minutes, until I can feel the radiator getting hot on the return side, and after running the heater and A/C for a bit, I shut it off! No racing the engine , just turn it off at idle! Of course I use Beach Dessicant Bags in the interior, trunk, and one each in the quarter panels, as well as Bounce Drier Sheets to deter rodents! I've been doing this for 17 years now without a problem. My garage floor is covered by a tarp to prevent moisture from leaching up through the concrete and rusting the undercarriage!

oldcutlass

Flat spots?? The only things that will develope flat spots are your tires, if you don't air them up to max pressure listed on the side wall! The engine will be fine!

wmachine

Can't stress this not so small point enough. This could prevent catastrophic damage (fire) that far eclipses any other pros and cons being discussed here.
Best to disconnect the battery *any* time the car will set for a while.

If your car will be in cold storage, take the battery inside. Keeping the battery warm (at least not subfreezing) will help extend the battery life.

cutlassgal

Here in Ohio, we get below 0 temps too. Teepo sits on a tarp in an unheated garage all winter. She has new oil, and a full tank of gas with Stabil added. She is full of Bounce dryer sheets to keep the mice away, lol.

I go out and start her usually every 3 weeks or so in the winter. I let her idle for about 25 minutes. I go through the gears and move her forward and backwards a little. I also run the heat and the AC awhile. I do disconnect the battery while she's sitting and connect it to start her. Haven't had any problems!

Run to Rund

The tires will be happier on plywood to insulate them, according to my tire store. If you have a race car with open headers, cap them so mice can't get in. I have seen cases where mice brought in corn, etc. through an open exhaust valve into a cylinder!

droldsmorland

Purchase yourself a Battery Tender. Best $30 Ive ever spent. I have a DieHard going on 10 years now! I put the tenders on everything that sits over the winter. Pull the batteries and put them in a well ventelated, climate area. Not in your basement next to the N.Gas hot water heater...(you'd be suprised).
I fill the tank with fresh 94, Octane boost and gas stabilizer. I may start them every other month.

BOOWAH

Iv'e never heard of "Flat Spots" on the cam, but I have heard of piston rings seizing to the cylinder walls during prolonged storage! I'd still feel better about starting it up once a month! At least they don't set in the same spot all winter and the cylinder walls get fresh oil!

bulldog

30 Something is for driving. 60 lbs is so the tires do not develop flat spots from sitting in one spot for an extended period of time. Of coarse everything is checked over in the spring and tire preasure is set to its proper preasure.

PGH Cutlass

im having a hard time finding a garage for my car,i do have lots that i park my vehicles on.I'm thinking about buying one of those tent garages,lol is there any outdoor storage procedure?

wmachine

Do you *know* of this happening from sitting over the winter? This is why forum advice is not always the best. No offense meant to you, but the "I heard"s and "I think"s are sources of as much bad info as good. Personally, I'd rather know what an expert says rather than a poll results of what everyone does. Again, nothing personal, but "I did this and didn't have any problems" is not exactly the best "advice" to use in any circumstance.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

My cutlass was run for many years in the worst of climates up here in canada. In fact mine was also under that sort of tent garage for many years too. Unfortunately now i'm dealing with the rust and mayhem that lays underneath the body panels.

I'm not sure what those plastic things cost down in the states, but up here in canada we rent one for 500 dollars per season. It almost makes more sence to me to find a buddy with an extra garage space and pay him for it. Might actually save some money.

My 0.02$

RetroRanger

tony and PGH

I stored my 71 vert in a portable garage for ~7 years before that it was in a leaky garage for 8 years prior to that it was in decent shape. sadly it is now beyond restoring. if you store in a portable garage use a heavy mointure barrier like plastic (not a tarp) under the car I used a tarp and my underside is in teribble shape

on the upside the poor conditon of the 71 forced me to buy a 72 in great shape

Allan R

Kurt, unfortunately what I'm going to say is first hand, but could also be considered just forum advice.
I guess it comes down to what 'extended storage' really means and what steps have been taken to prep the engine for extended storage.

I have had no issues storing my Cutlass for up to 3 years without starting it and without fogging the cylinders, etc. When the key went in (fresh battery of course) I just let it crank in 5 second bursts 3 or 4 times just to get some oil flow. Then I go through the GM startup procedure for a cold engine. It has always fired up fine regardless of how much time has passed. I like to kick down the idle soon after startup so internal components gets more oil bath/piston stroke than when running at fast idle.

I do feel bad that I had to leave it without using it for so long, but work was very demanding and took up pretty much 17 hours a day 6 days a week at the time. I'm not an expert by any means, but I believe in my rocket engine. It hasn't let me down yet.

Lack of use has contributed to an engine rebuild that will happen in 2012 - due to seals and gaskets drying out. But the basic engine remains intact and strong. Note: The car has always been stored inside in a cool dry environment.

atkinsom

Thank You all for your advise. Excellent and very interesting information. I guess the consensus seems to be leave it alone after disconnecting the battery, topping fluids and filling the car with bounce sheets/Dessicant Bags. I do like the idea of a tarp on the garage floor although I have thick cardboard copier boxes all underneath the car to grab leaks and keep moisture away. Plywood idea for the tires seems easy enough as well. Allan R or anyone else can you expand on the GM cold start procedures? I read the original drivers handbook that came with my 69 cutlass S (nice original I found on ebay) and there's nothing specific to cold engine start...maybe I'm blind

Allan R

Ok, for me it's on page 16 of the 72 Owners manual. I might have to repeat this procedure 2 times if the car has been left over the winter. I have a 350 4bbl. Lots of guys don't do this procedure. They just pump the living crap out of the acc pedal until the car fires. Check the index at the back of your owners manual. It's alphabetic; look for "Starting". There will be sub categories.

67 442

Cardboard copier boxes will attract moisture, thats kind of like putting a sponge under your car. I would want it to be as dry as possible.

navvet

I just purchased thin grooved floor mats for my car. I don't mean car mats..this material comes in long roles at the big box stores and you have it cut to order. This same material is used by companies during the winter on their rugs to help keep dirt and snow off .
It sells for about 1.90 a foot and it comes two feet wide. I cut pieces and place under my tires and engine area. It protects the tires and the floor and can be used again the following years.
And drier sheets work great...it is a FACT the texture and odor keeps the mice away!!

ziff396

Concrete with no vapor barrier underneath will let water vapor through. A good 4-6 mil plastic will solve this. The poly tarps are weaved and can let moisture through.
I only push my pedal down about half way and let up, (quadrajet) even after setting, and just crank. Starts right up usually within 5 seconds or so, and with fast idle.
I also run synthetic oil. With only about 1-2k per year, I change it in the spring. Regular oil, I would do the spring and fall thing.

garys 68

Ask people that winterize boats. They do lots every year in the worst possible conditions.
Running a car in the driveway will not heat the oil up enough to get the moisture out. Water temp might hit 190, but the oil takes some driving to heat it up. Idling will create more moisture in the crankcase, which is worse than not starting it at all. I've seen bearing lower halfs with "water marks" where corrosive combustion products eat into them.
Idling it also wont heat up the entire exhaust enough, so you'll have more corrosion in there.
Piston rings can freeze up causing excessive oil burning at startup. Pretty common on boats lacking maintenence. Usually become unstuck with high detergent oil if they dont break.
So...
Check your antifreeze, tire pressures, etc
Add some Stabil to the tank and run it enough to get to the carb.
Change the oil.
Grease all the fittings.
Spray fogging oil in the carb until it kills the motor. Or disconnect the coil and spray while cranking.
I leave the battery in with an automatic charger.
Leave it til spring.

70olds455

When I store my 71 cutlass for winter I put a car cover on it and I dont start it up until until winters over. I also have not disconnected the battery since I put it in there about 6 years ago and it has never gone dead or needed to be charged to get the car started.

wmachine

Well put and accurate. But leaving the battery in is *not* advisable. Not in the face of causing a fire and at least shortening the battery life.


Okay, so you are lucky. Is that a good reason to do it?

I don't know what it is going to take to get through to everyone the fire danger that exists when leaving batteries hooked up. Sure it isn't like it "happens all of the time", but it *does* happen enough to be a concern.
In most cases, we are dealing with wiring that is about 50 years old and was not designed to be in use 50 years later.
What good does it do to be told there is a potential problem, and then just ignore it? Why take the chance???
I just don't get it.

garys 68

I just got in the habit of leaving the battery in because that's what I do with the 6 HUGE ones on my boat. And they're also needed to run the bilge pump on the boat. I just check the batteries with a hygrometer and turn on a 1 1/2 amp auto trickle charger.
I do the same in my 68 corvette and 72 olds with one I plug into the cigarette lighter.
BTW, my wiring is all brand new.

atkinsom

I've read up on the fogging oil recommendation and it appears that there's a split on whether to use fogging oil through the carb or ATF in the cylinder by pulling the plugs, squirting a bit in each hole and then turn the crankshaft 5-7x's. I believe they both do a similar job but which one would you advise as the better choice. There's talk of fogging oil doing this and that with varnish deposits etc. but I'd prefer to hear from the fellas here. Great info...learning alot Thanx

droldsmorland

X2 on the heavy mil plastic on a concrete floor. Several days @ 10*F then one warmer day at 40*F will cause the undercarriage to literally drip with condensation. Ask how I know that! The plastic stops most of that. The gas tank will sweat due to the cold gas in a "warm" garage after the same temperature swing.
This was before I had the luxury of a climate controlled garage. One could run a small fan to circulate the air in the garage even better a defrosting dehumidifier (which wont work below 32*F) etc...Use common sense. Bottom line is...the dryer the better.
I also employ one of those battery disconnects on the neg terminal. Its the one with the green disconnect wheel on it. There are several vendors selling them. Beware there is a low & high quality version that look the same. That way I dont have to lift the battery out during cruze season and I can disconnect power anywhere, car shows, restraurant parking lots when its out of sight etc....
I too am from the school of disconnecting the battery....Im not a gambler with my and my families lives nor my collector cars lifes. Seen too many burn.

Destructor

I worry less about moisture during winter storage than early spring/late fall. My moisture absorbers absorb almost nothing through the winter, do not open the garage door if it suddenly warms up in the middle of winter and is rainy. I only open the door when it is cold or a clear sunny day.

DeltaPace77

To comment on the mention of starting the car once in awhile, I don't do it. What most don't know, is the combustion process actually manufacturers water, so unless you get things good and hot, will just sit in the cylinders. My car has a rear mounted electric fuel pump, so shut it off to stall out on empty carb bowls when parking. Turn it on it bit before cranking, and fires right up. While others may dissagree, I empty out the tank and pull the battery. Reason is fresh 93 octane's on the edge of running my high compression engine properly, so just put in all new come springtime. Not to worried about condensation, as in a dry walled/insulated attached garage up on a lift, that never gets very cold.

rustyroger

If I run my engine while my car is off the road for the winter I run it until the oil pan has been too hot to touch for at least 1/2 hour and the tail pipe is also hot to the touch.
We don't have the cold temperatures you get in Canada and the northern states, our problem is much more dealing with dampness.
The reason I run it for an extended period is to make sure all condensation is cleared from the engine and exhaust, I also run the heater and air conditioning to dry out the interior, my car is stored outside.
I fill the fuel tank as well, I don't use any additives in the fuel, the full tank means less room for moisture from air in the tank to get in the fuel.

That's my way of doing it, bearing in mind it never gets cold enough to freeze the battery or turn the oil into syrup as it might over there.

Compared to most of North America we have mild winters and cool summers but the British are world leaders at bitching about rotten weather!.

Roger.