VikingBlue

on 70-72 cars... I understand the wheel was always black, but what about the small ring around the horn button
?

Black, or dash color ?

joe_padavano

Black.

Allan R

The only time you'll see them different colors is if someone wants to match their dash and paints it, or if you install one of the smaller (14 1/2") 'starfire' wheels. The Starfire wheel was color matched to the interior but has a different part number and different stitching and molding pattern on the rubber than the larger 15 1/2 " black sport wheel.

I think that most of the newer generation expects that the color matching of today was common back in the 60's and 70's. Not true for the sports wheel, but it was true for the 'Deluxe' wheel which was made of acryllic and easier to color match. I have toyed with the idea of having my wheel professionally leather wrapped; mainly because my other cars were leather and I like the feel of it. Costs a lot of $$$$ I don't need to spend right now.

VikingBlue

thanks guys....the button on my 71 442 with blue interior has the black ring...but recently I believe I recall someone stating that the ring would be blue....

and if true would have been evidence that my car didn't originally come with the sport wheel....was just wondering.

vette442

Colors in 1970 and 1971, black only in 1972. See the assembly manuals for each of those three years as verification.

Terry

VikingBlue

Oh...so now different answer...

As stated, all blue interior 1971 car has sport wheel with black horn ring....so if vette is correct, this isn't what came with the car and sport wheel was added later.

Allan R

A different answer from a different person is the nature of the forum. I think what we're trying to target here is the right color for the N34 steering wheel assembly in your car. The center cap pad could be painted any color you want, but it came as black from the factory. It is also quite common for many of us to upgrade to the wheel we want in the car. My car came with a deluxe wheel. It worked just fine, but I wanted an N34. Easy 15 minute install. FYI, dealers would often upgrade some of their cars with various inexpensive (at the time) options using their in house expense accts, resulting in a more 'desirable' quicker selling car with a higher markup on profit. N34 wheels weren't the only thing on the list; so was the W25 hood and breather, SS11 wheels, sport mirrors, AM/FM Stereo radios, 8 track underdash option, light packages, Floor and trunk mats etc. These of course would be listed on the sale as 'Dealer installed options'.

My GM Parts Book shows the 4 spoke wheel for 1970-1972 in Grp 6.513 and lists it as part 9751871 which was only available in Black. The hub and pad is listed in Grp 6.512. In 1974 and beyond, the color options included Blue, Green, Saddle, Oxblood, Gray and the infamous Black.

I have a 1972 Cutlass assembly manual. On page 124 there are details for the N34 steering wheel. The pad and cap assembly chart shows the only color for the pad (399325) and Cap assembly (410064) as black.


I know there are many variations on the wheel theme out there. I guess what I'm curious about in regards to your question is: Does it matter to you what color it is? If so, it's easy to remedy.

VikingBlue

It doesn't matter to me enough to change it, but when in the future I choose to sell the car, and since I don't have any original documentation, I wouldn't want to suggest it was the original wheel if the black ring proves otherwise.

Same with the power windows...I don't want to claim the PW are factory ordered if it was likely added later. Any way to know these things with a high degree of certainty ?

Allan R

Yes there is. But it would involve you finding the build sheet for your car (not the broadcast sheet). The build sheet will have ALL the car information on it as it was processed by GM's assembly computer, and workstations along the build line. Most common places to find a build sheet are: under a (front or rear) seat spring, under a package shelf, inside kick panels, stuffed under the dash, and on top of the fuel tank. Note: Lansing cars very rarely will find build sheets, but there will likely be plenty of broadcast sheets. Other than that, Oldsmobile didn't keep very accurate records of production stats. Pity. FYI, if your car was a Canadian built car, or originally destined for the Canadian market you could get that information from GM Historical archives up here; attn George Zapora

VikingBlue

The car had an "on-frame" restoration and no such documents were found. I have not checked the top of the tank.

I just don't want to make the claim of the car having those factory options, which I believe were ordered, if it can be proved otherwise.

Like I said, if having the black ring proves the sport wheel was NOT original, I don't want to state that it is original.

Allan R

Well, could be one of two things. 1. The PO of the car may have found the documentation and not realized what he had (thrown away), or 2. The documents are still there (in many frame on restos the interior is not usually gutted unless you have to do rockers, floor pans, wheel housings and quarters etc. My tank developed a leak back in 1985 so I had to take it out and fix it. It wasn't on top of mine either.

You sound like a very ethical person, and if I was in the position of buying a car from you, I would be very comfortable with what you have to say about 'the known history' of your car. There are unscrupulous people out there who will claim the car was originally built with every option under the sun, but can't prove it. This doesn't sound like you. To me, it sounds like you have a nice car that you enjoy, but worry too much about what someone who wants to buy it will say. If you sold the car, I'm positive the conversation would end up somewhat like this: "This is my car. It's for sale for $$$$. It has the following options on it. Don't know if they were there from the factory or not because I didn't buy it new and the previous owner didn't tell me. I know the car has had mechanical and body work done. To my knowledge here's what it was.....". I'd be totally cool with that. No misrepresentation at all.

Case in point - my 72 Cutlass S was built in Lansing on April 7, 1972 as basically a plain jane driver. The usual favorite options: L32 350, TH350, PS, PDB, Rear defog, AM radio. Dealer added rear defog, floor mats and that's it.

What I'm doing - buying and adding as many period correct options that were proper for the car that I want for when it was produced: N34 wheel, U21 Rallye-pac, Electric Defog on Glass, N67 SS111 wheels, 3:42 posi, W27 finned cover, HD Cooling, 455/400, dual exhaust c/w cutout bumper and trumpets, Sports mirrors, W29 Appearance and handling package, PW, PDL, Cruise, P Seats, AM/FM Stereo, 8 track, P Trunk, Vinyl roof, tinted glass etc, etc... You get the idea. I have NO PLANS TO SELL this car.

When I take the car to shows, I talk extensively to willing listeners about the car's known history and potential future. I represent it accurately, fairly and honestly. Anyone who asks if I can document what's on the car? I show the broadcast sheet and bill of sale. My Dad bought this car and wasn't much into options. I'm different, I like the options even though there's more to go wrong. But, I also keep myself and the presentation honest. I can also show anyone who asks what the correct options are, how much they cost in 1972, and what their ordering codes are.

At the end of the day, my car makes me happy because I love driving it, working on it and sharing it with others. Your car should make you happy too for whatever reasons you want. IMO, There are too many people out there who will shoot off their mouth about what is 'right or wrong' with a car without actually owning one or even having the right knowledge base. As Sean Connery said (in The Untouchables) "Here endeth the lesson". - for now anyways.

VikingBlue

I'm probably not as ethical you make me out to be. I have owned the car 20 years and it has what I consider to be desireable and value-increasing factory options. I will probably sell it within a couple of years, and will surely mention its factory equipment increases its value. I believe this is true....but if there is no way for me to prove the wheel, the AC, the AM/FM, the PW are truly factory installed, then my claims would be hollow. I don't have any more evidence in my favor than a guy who makes the same claims yet knows he installed those pieces himself last month.

stevengerard

Unless you are trying for a concourse resto I don't think you should be too worried. Ultimately the person who buys your car won't really care about that horn ring color either. But if they do your answer will be good enough, shouldn't be the difference between a sale and no sale.

Even if you found the build sheet that would only prove what was "ordered" not what was "dealer Installed" if anything.

Most likely your AC was factory, that was a time consuming option to install at the dealer and so were your electric windows. But I have seen here or on other forums folks who presented documentation of options like that installed by the dealer.

As mentioned things like wheels, rear end ratios, radios, 8-tracks, cruise control, hood locks and hoods were easy profit and marketing up grades by the dealer.

vette442

Just for verification I checked all three years' assembly manuals again. 1972 - black only, 1970 - multiple colors, and 1971 is also just black as shown on page 9-124. I revise my statement above for 1971 accordingly.