oldcutlass

What do you guys think of this stuff???

I decided to give this a try. I'm mixing it with off the shelf penzoil 20-50. Based on what they say it contains, I would think it's fine.

Zn Zinc 1700 - 1800 ppm

P Phosphorus 1500 - 1600 ppm

http://www.barsproducts.com/tech/4401_tech.pdf

Nilsson

I would use it no problem.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

i run that in my 350 rocket, works great!

stetzie

I've used this product in everything I have that's powered by gas or diesel.
Great stuff and won't run any of my stuff with out it.
Started using it in 1989 with amazing results, especially wirh my Olds diesel engines.

stetzie

aliensatemybuick

I've used Rislone in all my Oldsmobiles (not sure about the ZDDP though). Last car I sold spun a rod bearing a month after I sold it though, so I probably shouldn't recommend it.

oldcutlass

This is some new stuff they just came out with, and it has a suitable amount of zinc/ phospherous in it. It's like $11.99 for a quart to mix with 4 quarts of standard oil.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I'm afraid to ask. But how do you know that a bearing has been spun? Is it a nasty squeal like a loose pulley belt?

aliensatemybuick

Truth is I have no idea; that's what the guy who bought it from me said. The only nasty squeal I heard was when he called me.

DeltaPace77

Higher zinc content is really for flat tappet lubrication of older engines like most here have. The government regulates zinc content of newer oils, as can contaminate cat converters. Valvoline gets around the low zinc thing, by marketing it's VR line as racing oils. The way I'd prefer to go, rather than adding more stuff later. Truth is, once the cam/lifters are properly broken in, higher zinc content doesn't matter much anyway. As for a spun main bearing, can't imagine zinc content having anything to do with it. Rislone makes all kinds of stuff, some only meant for short term use to de-carbon the inners. Gotta be careful using some of this.

66-3X2 442

Competition Cams HIGHLY recommends running zinc in all flat tappet motors. They had a rash of cam failures and figured out it was the lack of zinc in the oil. You guys can believe whatever you want,but I would run oil with zinc or an additive. I use Brad Penn oil and it has zinc in it, it's only about $6 a quart. A very small price to pay for a motors well being.

oldcutlass

Now thats funny!

coppercutlass

I run the lucas zinc additive it cost 14 bucks and treats up to 6 qts. I always add it with every oil change. I have also broken in a cam with just straight rotella 15w40 no zinc additive with no issues . Rotella does have some zinc and other good additives but not as much as before.

AZ455

Rotella T 15w-40 has 1200 ppm ZDDP. I have a letter from Shell verifying this from May 2011.

My Toyota and the Olds get this. Nice and affordable from Wal-Mart, and I've always hated additives.

Nilsson

I would use additives before I would use diesel oil in a gasoline engine.

MDchanic

Why?

- Eric

bigD

i'm a Delo 400 fan myself... i've been using it in my powerstroke since '04 with great results. i see no reason not to use it in gas engines as well...

Nilsson

Diesel oils contain much more in the way of detergents vs oils engineered for gasoline engines.

AZ455

The "diesel oil" is still SM rated for gas engines.

coppercutlass

I run rotella t 15w40 in my olds and always have never had an issue . I don't think anyone can claim engine failure due running diesel oil. In fact I'm positive its the only reason my current engine is alive .

DeltaPace77

The mention of certain oils containing more detergents, or adding more of your own stuff is something to think about. Packaged oils are highly engineered products, and the bottle already contains about 20% additives and 80% oil. Adding more stuff, cuts down the actual oil content ratio even more. Synthetic oil contains less additives, as chemically designed as an engine lubricant from conception, rather than forcing dino oil to do it with additives.

oldcutlass

Sorry, but you are way misinformed, we are adding back to what used to be in Dino oil.

Synthetic lubricants have the additives we are referencing here added also. I don't like synthetics, not that they are bad, but they tend to weap from everywhere on older engines.

The question is the amount of zinc and phosphorus being adaquate for older flat tappet engines. It is off the shelf, readily available and $11.99 for a qt to be mixed with 4 qts of standard motor oil.

P Phosphorus 1500 - 1600 ppm

Click on the link and read:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13210574823521

MDchanic

I concur.

There is no way that motor oil is only 80% oil. It's an absurd statement.

And my question still stands: Why would a higher proportion of detergent additives be bad, especially in an older engine with looser tolerances than modern engines when it was new, and even more so after many years and miles? An engine like ours bears more resemblance to a diesel than any modern gas engine, especially in regards to operating RPMs, Bearing loads (higher pressures at lower RPMs), and blow-by.

- Eric

coppercutlass

X2 with MDchanic. The detergents in diesels are added to burn cleaner and prevent soot and gunk build up as diesels do burn oil. The detergents do not take away from the oil"s primary pourpose but add better perfromance and less chance of failure. There is a reason why they spend millions in testing.

DeltaPace77

Yup Eric, I am nuts. Recall reading articles on the 80/20 ratio, but more research shows some better oils are 80% organic/20% non organic base stock, with 3-5% additives. Thanks for the correction on this. As for the putting back in mention. Using the Rislone link ratios, shows about 6000 ppm ea zink-phos, mixing with 4 qts 800 ppm zinc oil. Thats less than 1/2oz total in a 32oz bottle. Whats the other 31-1/2 oz. Also, I use syn in my 455, and not a single drip. Admittedly I built mine fresh with a neoprene rear main, but maybe some others are due for a bit of refreshing too.

oldcutlass

According to the link, mixed with 4qts, the end result is:

Phosphorus 1500 - 1600 ppm

redoldsman

Rislone has been around for years and is a good product. Glad to know this one is available.

MDchanic

From the Rislone tech page:
"With a typical SM rated oil at a 20% dosage rate expect
levels to be raised to a total of:
Zinc 1700 - 1800 ppm
Phosphorus 1500 - 1600 ppm"


Okay, I am VERY confused by what you're saying here.
First, what is "zinc oil?"
The measurement specified is of elemental zinc (which in this case is a component of the molecule zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) in parts per million, and it is measured using Energy Dispersive X-ray Fluorescence Spectroscopy, not with a measuring cup.

Second, I am mystified by how you came up with any of your numbers from the information posted on that page, and then by how you derived the numbers you posted. The tech page states:

"ZINC, Mass % = 0.501
Calcium, Mass % = 0.296
Phosphorus [presumably Mass %] = 0.452"

If the zinc is present at about ½ of 1% by mass (in other words, at a fraction of five thousandths, or 0.005, of the whole), and if a quart of oil weighs about 1kg (I haven't weighed one), then that means about 5mg of zinc by weight in a 1 quart bottle, which would probably be about 2ml of elemental zinc by volume (just an estimate - I did not check molecular weights and densities here, but a solid metal will generally have greater density than a liquid non-metal), so even if you got this far, 2ml is less than ½ a teaspoon, and since there are three teaspoons in ½ ounce, you're well over six times off in your calculation.



- Eric

oldcutlass

Don't shoot the messenger, I read the tech page and am quoting what they said it contains. I know that my flat tappet cam engine needs these elements to survive based on research done by others way smarter than me! I'm using this product for the first time as an alternative to VR oils and synthetics because it is easier to aquire and meets the requirements that I had seen in the past. The remainder of the product is probably just dino oil!

These elements used to be in motor oils, however with current auto technology it was found that they do not get along with emissions components. So in the last few years they had to be removed. If you have a roller lifter motor, disregard, as these elements are not necessary to your application!

MDchanic

I wasn't shootin' at you - I think you were just down range .

I just quoted you because I wanted to add my voice to yours .

- Eric

cutlass xombie

The link at the top was broken so I couldn't see what the product looked like.


Is this it http://rislone.ca/catalog/view/44-engine-treatment-34100


It says nothing on the site about zddp so I just want to check before I buy any.


Thanks,
Rob

oldcutlass

No, thats not the link.

This is:

http://www.barsproducts.com/system/p...pdf?1323886893

cutlass xombie

Thanks OldCutlass...I didn't think that was the right stuff and I couldn't find that on the website.

Thanks again.

oldcutlass

Your quite welcome! So far it runs well in my engine, I mix it with 20/50.

cutlass xombie

I'm just hoping I can find it up here. I found the other stuff and the blue STP but not the Rislone zddp yet.

oldcutlass

It's at most autoparts stores with the additives.

cutlass xombie

I'm going to check the local NAPA tomorrow as our Canadian Tire didn't have it.

holidaysedan

All the nuts at the Porsche Club, the most fanatical car people ever, are running Brad Penn Racing oil in their 911s, and that's good enough for me! It has high levels of ZDDP without any additives.

D. Yaros

For a look at Part I of Car Collector Chronicles' investigation into ZDDP things, check out the May 2012 issue, available online 30 April here -
http://www.scribd.com/people/view/7936333-dave

olds 307 and 403

I use the synthetic blend 5w30 Co-op DMO for racing. Group IV synthetic base, 1421 ppm zinc. I use the full synthetic DMO 0w40 in my truck for the winter. I can also get non synthetic 10w30, 15w40 and 30w with 1421 ppm zinc. Around 3 to $5 a liter, slightly cheaper in 5L sizes.

DeltaPace77

Oh, Brad Penn oil has additives alright, with ZDDP being one of them. The huge biggie, is all of this is a finely engineered package, purposely designed to work together. When playing at home chemist, throwing in more stuff later, who knows. I always use the properly engineered oil, and never add anything.