Real or Fake?
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Real or Fake?
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1608760897.html
Either way I wouldnt pay 10k for a car with no vin #. what are your thoughts?
Either way I wouldnt pay 10k for a car with no vin #. what are your thoughts?
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From: dogtown
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From: KY
For Sale: 1982/87 Olds Cutlass. Car was originally built as an ’82 Cutlass as a special, lightweight factory test/drag car. Car has never been titled or registered, and has no VIN #
Yeah I know that's what the ad says and that is what the car is, but he then goes on to say the car was built in 82.
Last edited by 70 cutlass s; Feb 19, 2010 at 09:10 PM.
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From: dogtown
For Sale: 1982/87 Olds Cutlass. Car was originally built as an ’82 Cutlass as a special, lightweight factory test/drag car. Car has never been titled or registered, and has no VIN #
Yeah I know that's what the ad says and that is what the car is, but he then goes on to say the car was built in 82.
Yeah I know that's what the ad says and that is what the car is, but he then goes on to say the car was built in 82.
Another confused tool...
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From: dogtown
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From: Ohio
1. Car was built in December ’81 as an ’82 Cutlass.
Any car built in in December '81 was an '82.
2. (per Dale Miller – Olds Performance Director/Engineer for many years).
Name dropping without any proof of connection.
3. Dale Miller, in a telephone conversation, told me he built a few of these with high nickel-content block.
Attempt an untraceable name drop combined with what you think is an "engineering fact" that is, in reality, an old wives tale. This just adds up to being an outright lie.
he's way past the legal limit.
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Didn't they use the aluminum hoods on a bunch of those cars?
The guy is holding back too much no matter what it is.
The highway patrol here would seize that thing in a minute with no VIN, title, or paperwork, they pull over car haulers and check all the time.
It's a stolen car for all intents and purposes until you can prove different. Another D.A.R.E. race car for the local constabulary if the smokies nail it in their jurisdiction.
The guy is holding back too much no matter what it is.
The highway patrol here would seize that thing in a minute with no VIN, title, or paperwork, they pull over car haulers and check all the time.
It's a stolen car for all intents and purposes until you can prove different. Another D.A.R.E. race car for the local constabulary if the smokies nail it in their jurisdiction.
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,802
From: Northern VA
OK, everyone take a breath. I cannot vouch for the validity of the seller's claims, but I will provide some information for others to make a decision. First, factory cars intended as race-only cars do not carry a VIN specifically because they do not comply with DOT and EPA standards and thus cannot legally be registered and driven on public roads. As an example, the 2010 Mustang Cobra Jet is a turnkey race car that you can buy from Ford today. It also does not come with a VIN.
Second, it is common practice to update race cars by installing newer model year sheetmetal. I suspect that is what was done to this car.
Naturally, none of this means anything without factory documentation. Just be aware that what the seller claims not without some precedent. Whether or not his claims are accurate for this particular car is not something I can comment on.
Second, it is common practice to update race cars by installing newer model year sheetmetal. I suspect that is what was done to this car.
Naturally, none of this means anything without factory documentation. Just be aware that what the seller claims not without some precedent. Whether or not his claims are accurate for this particular car is not something I can comment on.
Just an Olds Guy
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 24,528
From: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
........... First, factory cars intended as race-only cars do not carry a VIN specifically because they do not comply with DOT and EPA standards and thus cannot legally be registered and driven on public roads. As an example, the 2010 Mustang Cobra Jet is a turnkey race car that you can buy from Ford today. It also does not come with a VIN..........
Anyway, I guess it's really up to whoever wants that kind of car and performance. If all they want is a strip racer, to each their own
Old(s) Fart
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From: Northern VA
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From: KY
A lot of guys at the track race cars that don't have titles. This guy knows the car is not worth what he is asking for it. So he came up with a story to make it sound better then it really is.
I have heard of cars that car companies have built concept cars and test cars that didn't have vins some sold others destroyed. Every once in a while you will see one that someone owns. Most of the time in a collection. I have heard of some being titled as kit cars don't know if it is true.
I have heard of cars that car companies have built concept cars and test cars that didn't have vins some sold others destroyed. Every once in a while you will see one that someone owns. Most of the time in a collection. I have heard of some being titled as kit cars don't know if it is true.
Last edited by 70 cutlass s; Feb 20, 2010 at 03:48 PM.
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From: dogtown
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If it was a factory race car then why would it have aftermarket parts on it? Wouldn't Oldsmobile just put "factory" performance parts on it? It also looks like the firewall has been cut on the passenger's side and new panel welded in to fill in the holes from the factory AC box. I would say this is just a "home built" race car. Not saying that it isn't fast though.
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,802
From: Northern VA
If it was a factory race car then why would it have aftermarket parts on it? Wouldn't Oldsmobile just put "factory" performance parts on it? It also looks like the firewall has been cut on the passenger's side and new panel welded in to fill in the holes from the factory AC box. I would say this is just a "home built" race car. Not saying that it isn't fast though.
Lt. Buzzkill (ret.)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,297
From: Western New York
Lots of "factory race cars" were actually sold as "body-in-white" which means a rolling body/chassis (or in the case of unibody cars, just a bare shell). The engine might or might not have been installed, but in any case it would not have been a race engine. The mods were left up to the racer, sometimes with guidance from factory engineers, sometimes not.
As far as I know, Olds didn't sell complete ready-to-race cars like Ford does with the special CobraJet Mustangs.
The 80's Cutlass body-in-white cars did not get a VIN and quite a few were sold to stock/super stock drag racers.
As Joe said already, it is common practice for drag cars to be updated with newer sheetmetal to appear to be a newer model.
As far as I know, Olds didn't sell complete ready-to-race cars like Ford does with the special CobraJet Mustangs.
The 80's Cutlass body-in-white cars did not get a VIN and quite a few were sold to stock/super stock drag racers.
As Joe said already, it is common practice for drag cars to be updated with newer sheetmetal to appear to be a newer model.
Last edited by copper128; Feb 22, 2010 at 07:39 AM.
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Again, how many "factory" performance parts were available from Olds in the 1980s.
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From: Iowa
How many are available today? It just seems odd that Oldsmobile would build a race car with an Edelbrock intake, Harland Sharps rocker arms, etc. If these were added then doesn't it destroy the authenticity of a "factory race car?" Also, why are there door panels, headliner, dashboard etc. in the car? This is all useless weight the car is carrying down the dragstrip. It seems fishy to me. If the guy has documentation then great.
Old(s) Fart
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From: Northern VA
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You must be kidding?
In 1995 when Oldsmobile pulled out of drag racing they had won 14 NHRA Manufacturers Cups, at the time more than *any* other make. And they won the last 12 in a row through 1995.
That is what "your father's Oldsmobiles" were doing.
In 1995 when Oldsmobile pulled out of drag racing they had won 14 NHRA Manufacturers Cups, at the time more than *any* other make. And they won the last 12 in a row through 1995.
That is what "your father's Oldsmobiles" were doing.
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From: dogtown
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Thank you Joe-Padavano
for being the voice of reason on this thread.
It's interesting to see the venom and misinformation that the anonymity of the internet feeds on..
for the record I'm currently selling on consignment this Oldsmobile drag car that everyone is talking about.
First off I would like to say that the owner seems to be a very straightforward person. There was nothing confusing or misleading about the description of the car as far as I'm concerned. He does state some things about its history and yes they are undocumented but he is not asking $30k for the car either and there is enough information out there about these cars to realize that it is absolutely possible that it would not have had a VIN or title.
I have the car here and it is a strong running no BS car. You could not build it for twice the asking price. Anyone who buys it for drag racing is getting a turnkey car for a fraction of what it would cost to build. That is an indisputable fact...
As for the "story" behind the car in my mind it is insignificant as without documentation any cars history could be perceived as "BS" and once again the car is not being sold as high dollar, rare collectible. The proof is in the pudding so to speak and if one were to see the car they would see it is actually a very fair deal.
It's interesting to see the venom and misinformation that the anonymity of the internet feeds on..
for the record I'm currently selling on consignment this Oldsmobile drag car that everyone is talking about.
First off I would like to say that the owner seems to be a very straightforward person. There was nothing confusing or misleading about the description of the car as far as I'm concerned. He does state some things about its history and yes they are undocumented but he is not asking $30k for the car either and there is enough information out there about these cars to realize that it is absolutely possible that it would not have had a VIN or title.
I have the car here and it is a strong running no BS car. You could not build it for twice the asking price. Anyone who buys it for drag racing is getting a turnkey car for a fraction of what it would cost to build. That is an indisputable fact...
As for the "story" behind the car in my mind it is insignificant as without documentation any cars history could be perceived as "BS" and once again the car is not being sold as high dollar, rare collectible. The proof is in the pudding so to speak and if one were to see the car they would see it is actually a very fair deal.
