Ready to buy - what would you choose?
February 5th, 2014, 04:57 AM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indiana, USA
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Ready to buy - what would you choose?
So, after a lot of years, I'm ready to get a little classic muscle under me again, and I've decided to replace my long-lost '70 Cutlass S. I strongly doubt that I'll do any racing, sanctioned or otherwise, so this is pretty much just about personal satisfaction... but performance is still key. I'm looking at 3 rides:
#1: A '69 Cutlass S, 350 CID, 4 bbl, dual exhaust, TH350, all stock and all original, and it's literally almost like new, wearing the original paint and interior. No rust anywhere, all numbers match, and never 'restored'. The seller is the second owner, and has owned it for many years. I trust the seller, this is the real deal.
#2: A '69 4-4-2, 400 CID, automatic (I assume TH400), 4 bbl, dual exhaust, great condition, all numbers match, and nearly all original. Needs very little work, and cosmetically it's super nice. It has been repainted once, but the same guy has owned it for a very long time. The things it needs are under the car -- exhaust, some preventative restoration, cracking rubber, patchy undercoating, stuff like that. Nothing major that I can see.
#3: A '71 Cutlass S, 455 CID, 4 bbl, dual exhaust, TH400, has been repainted and 'restored', some interior items like seats have been replaced with very nice non-OEM items, but mostly it's period-correct. Condition looks really good. I don't know yet if it's the original powertrain, and I can't tell yet the quality of the restoration that's been done, but the price on this one is super reasonable.
I am not a car flipper or swapper. Whatever I choose will remain with me for a long time, and whatever work it gets I prefer to do myself. I would rather spend time enjoying it than rebuilding it, but winters are long, so there is ample time for tuning, upgrading, tweaking, etc. I'm really just trying to decide what will give me the most adrenaline (or potential) and reliability per dollar. This will be a fair-weather weekender, not a garage queen and not a daily driver.
I think all 3 of these are in much better than average condition, and none of them needs a big restoration. #1 needs nothing at all except a driver. The others may need a little touching up here and there, and could have a few hidden issues I haven't seen.
Assuming that cost is not an issue, which would you choose and why?
Looking forward to hearing what you guys think before I pull any triggers...
#1: A '69 Cutlass S, 350 CID, 4 bbl, dual exhaust, TH350, all stock and all original, and it's literally almost like new, wearing the original paint and interior. No rust anywhere, all numbers match, and never 'restored'. The seller is the second owner, and has owned it for many years. I trust the seller, this is the real deal.
#2: A '69 4-4-2, 400 CID, automatic (I assume TH400), 4 bbl, dual exhaust, great condition, all numbers match, and nearly all original. Needs very little work, and cosmetically it's super nice. It has been repainted once, but the same guy has owned it for a very long time. The things it needs are under the car -- exhaust, some preventative restoration, cracking rubber, patchy undercoating, stuff like that. Nothing major that I can see.
#3: A '71 Cutlass S, 455 CID, 4 bbl, dual exhaust, TH400, has been repainted and 'restored', some interior items like seats have been replaced with very nice non-OEM items, but mostly it's period-correct. Condition looks really good. I don't know yet if it's the original powertrain, and I can't tell yet the quality of the restoration that's been done, but the price on this one is super reasonable.
I am not a car flipper or swapper. Whatever I choose will remain with me for a long time, and whatever work it gets I prefer to do myself. I would rather spend time enjoying it than rebuilding it, but winters are long, so there is ample time for tuning, upgrading, tweaking, etc. I'm really just trying to decide what will give me the most adrenaline (or potential) and reliability per dollar. This will be a fair-weather weekender, not a garage queen and not a daily driver.
I think all 3 of these are in much better than average condition, and none of them needs a big restoration. #1 needs nothing at all except a driver. The others may need a little touching up here and there, and could have a few hidden issues I haven't seen.
Assuming that cost is not an issue, which would you choose and why?
Looking forward to hearing what you guys think before I pull any triggers...
February 5th, 2014, 05:18 AM
#3
Old School Olds
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marble Falls TX
Posts: 8,994
The 442's will always be worth more
in the long run, but it seems you found
some nice choices. The 69's are a pain
if you have to deal with anything dash
related, but the dash in the 68-69's is
a far more better looking than the 70-72,
but that's just me. Good luck with your decision.
in the long run, but it seems you found
some nice choices. The 69's are a pain
if you have to deal with anything dash
related, but the dash in the 68-69's is
a far more better looking than the 70-72,
but that's just me. Good luck with your decision.
February 5th, 2014, 07:08 AM
#6
If cost is not an issue go with the matching #'s 442. You will get more satisfaction knowing it is the real deal most desirable performance model. It also is considered more collectible and has a certain pedigree inherent with it.
I think its fairly safe to say everyone would prefer a 442 but only purchase Cutlass' because they are more affordable.
The only caveat is colors. You don't want to have to do a costly color change so if one of the cars is a color "that speaks to you" then its not as cut and dry.
I think its fairly safe to say everyone would prefer a 442 but only purchase Cutlass' because they are more affordable.
The only caveat is colors. You don't want to have to do a costly color change so if one of the cars is a color "that speaks to you" then its not as cut and dry.
February 5th, 2014, 07:36 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 191
I'm appreciating all the feedback very much. The consensus so far seems to be the 442, and it is indeed a really sharp-looking car (also the most expensive, and the most difficult seller to deal with).
Should I have any concerns about the 400 Rocket? I have no experience with that engine at all, and I've heard various pros and cons which have done little but muddy the waters for me. Should I expect it to have noticeably more power or torque vs the 350? Will it be as dependable?
I actually have been leaning more towards #1, the '69 Cutlass S 350, partly because the seller is so similar in attitude to myself (do it right the first time, use quality parts, keep it as original as possible or practical), and partly because it is so pristine and original. But the 442 is really appealing, even at an extra 4 grand asking price.
Should I have any concerns about the 400 Rocket? I have no experience with that engine at all, and I've heard various pros and cons which have done little but muddy the waters for me. Should I expect it to have noticeably more power or torque vs the 350? Will it be as dependable?
I actually have been leaning more towards #1, the '69 Cutlass S 350, partly because the seller is so similar in attitude to myself (do it right the first time, use quality parts, keep it as original as possible or practical), and partly because it is so pristine and original. But the 442 is really appealing, even at an extra 4 grand asking price.
February 8th, 2014, 11:12 AM
#11
I admit to being VERY prejudice (as I own a '69 Cutlass S convertible) but if you intend on keeping the car for a long time, with minimal concerns about resale value, I honestly would go with #1. The relationship you build with the current owner may prove to be very valuable during the negotiation process and in case you run into any "surprises" within the 1st 6 months or so of ownership. Also, if the car is a GOOD BUY already, think about the ability to use the $ you save by buying the Cutlass vs a 442 as $ you might be able to use towards personalizing the car to your taste. Love to hear & see what you decide. If I can help with any questions now or down the road....just let me know..OLDS FOREVER
Last edited by 70sbulldog; February 8th, 2014 at 11:24 AM.
February 8th, 2014, 11:21 AM
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,076
I'm appreciating all the feedback very much. The consensus so far seems to be the 442, and it is indeed a really sharp-looking car (also the most expensive, and the most difficult seller to deal with).
Should I have any concerns about the 400 Rocket? I have no experience with that engine at all, and I've heard various pros and cons which have done little but muddy the waters for me. Should I expect it to have noticeably more power or torque vs the 350? Will it be as dependable?
I actually have been leaning more towards #1, the '69 Cutlass S 350, partly because the seller is so similar in attitude to myself (do it right the first time, use quality parts, keep it as original as possible or practical), and partly because it is so pristine and original. But the 442 is really appealing, even at an extra 4 grand asking price.
Should I have any concerns about the 400 Rocket? I have no experience with that engine at all, and I've heard various pros and cons which have done little but muddy the waters for me. Should I expect it to have noticeably more power or torque vs the 350? Will it be as dependable?
I actually have been leaning more towards #1, the '69 Cutlass S 350, partly because the seller is so similar in attitude to myself (do it right the first time, use quality parts, keep it as original as possible or practical), and partly because it is so pristine and original. But the 442 is really appealing, even at an extra 4 grand asking price.
The 68-69 400 CID is a great street motor with plenty of torque
February 8th, 2014, 04:05 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 42
I own a 69 S and love it but if I had a choice of the 3 you have it would have to be the 442. Why because it is a 442 no other reason than that. Pick the one you like most and enjoy its your money and choice you will Love whatever you pick.
February 9th, 2014, 01:26 AM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Grass Valley Ca
Posts: 974
I'm appreciating all the feedback very much. The consensus so far seems to be the 442, and it is indeed a really sharp-looking car (also the most expensive, and the most difficult seller to deal with).
Should I have any concerns about the 400 Rocket? I have no experience with that engine at all, and I've heard various pros and cons which have done little but muddy the waters for me. Should I expect it to have noticeably more power or torque vs the 350? Will it be as dependable?
I actually have been leaning more towards #1, the '69 Cutlass S 350, partly because the seller is so similar in attitude to myself (do it right the first time, use quality parts, keep it as original as possible or practical), and partly because it is so pristine and original. But the 442 is really appealing, even at an extra 4 grand asking price.
Should I have any concerns about the 400 Rocket? I have no experience with that engine at all, and I've heard various pros and cons which have done little but muddy the waters for me. Should I expect it to have noticeably more power or torque vs the 350? Will it be as dependable?
I actually have been leaning more towards #1, the '69 Cutlass S 350, partly because the seller is so similar in attitude to myself (do it right the first time, use quality parts, keep it as original as possible or practical), and partly because it is so pristine and original. But the 442 is really appealing, even at an extra 4 grand asking price.
February 9th, 2014, 07:24 AM
#16
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 410
I may be in the minority here, but #1 sound like the best bang for the buck, The 350 with a 4bbl has plenty of get up and go plus an unmolested car from a trust seller goes a long way in my book.
but, there is always a but............ #2 sounds pretty darn good too, the things you mentioned are relatively inexpensive fixes if money isn't an object then #2 is a no brainer.
but, there is always a but............ #2 sounds pretty darn good too, the things you mentioned are relatively inexpensive fixes if money isn't an object then #2 is a no brainer.
February 9th, 2014, 07:44 AM
#17
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,357
Nice choices
You mentioned performance is key. The 442's usually have more of that as well as the increased value. # 1 and # 2 both sound great. Maybe make a list of pros and cons as well as cost of repairs needed for each and compare. From past experience I have to recommend getting a professional inspection by a mechanic before pulling the trigger.
February 9th, 2014, 05:49 PM
#24
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brazil Indiana
Posts: 11,522
Not sure what you are looking to spend but i have a 70 Rallye 350 that just needs a driver and i am located here in Indiana. I would love to see the car stay in Indiana. I would trust it to drive anywhere in the country. It is a 4 speed car.
February 9th, 2014, 06:43 PM
#27
Should I have any concerns about the 400 Rocket? I have no experience with that engine at all, and I've heard various pros and cons which have done little but muddy the waters for me. Should I expect it to have noticeably more power or torque vs the 350? Will it be as dependable?
February 10th, 2014, 04:29 AM
#28
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 191
So many good suggestions, and great feedback. Thanks very much to all of you for that. Everybody chose #1, the '69 original numbers Cutlass S or #2, the original numbers 442. I pulled the trigger last night on #1, and got a good price from an awesome seller. I can't wait for some spring weather so I can go pick it up and bring it home.
Jensenracing77, I missed your post, but that's a very sharp Rallye. Had I seen your post before last night, I would definitely have checked in with you. I think it's worth much more that I was planning to spend, and I wish you good luck in selling the car.
The '69 S is all original except for just a couple of items. 350 Rocket with HEI, single exhaust, 90k miles. TH350 transmission was recently rebuilt because the seals started leaking, but no mods were done. New coil springs, ball joints, sway bars, bushings, and urethane to replace all of the old rubber suspension parts. Vinyl top was replaced a few years ago and is like new. All the weatherstripping has been replaced. 2-bbl carb has been rebuilt. New ignition wires, battery, tires in the past 2 years, and not a speck of rust anywhere. Interior is original and perfect. This is a true garage queen.
Although it really doesn't need anything, I'm seeing it as a blank slate. Since it's the factory single exhaust setup and 2 bbl carb, I'm assuming it's the lower output (250hp rating?) 350. I'll have a lot of research to do in planning performance build-ups, but I'm looking forward to it... I'll save that stuff for other threads.
Thanks again guys for all of your input. It's very much valued and appreciated.
JP_69Cutlass S_1_600x450.jpg
JP_69Cutlass S_5_600x450.jpg
Jensenracing77, I missed your post, but that's a very sharp Rallye. Had I seen your post before last night, I would definitely have checked in with you. I think it's worth much more that I was planning to spend, and I wish you good luck in selling the car.
The '69 S is all original except for just a couple of items. 350 Rocket with HEI, single exhaust, 90k miles. TH350 transmission was recently rebuilt because the seals started leaking, but no mods were done. New coil springs, ball joints, sway bars, bushings, and urethane to replace all of the old rubber suspension parts. Vinyl top was replaced a few years ago and is like new. All the weatherstripping has been replaced. 2-bbl carb has been rebuilt. New ignition wires, battery, tires in the past 2 years, and not a speck of rust anywhere. Interior is original and perfect. This is a true garage queen.
Although it really doesn't need anything, I'm seeing it as a blank slate. Since it's the factory single exhaust setup and 2 bbl carb, I'm assuming it's the lower output (250hp rating?) 350. I'll have a lot of research to do in planning performance build-ups, but I'm looking forward to it... I'll save that stuff for other threads.
Thanks again guys for all of your input. It's very much valued and appreciated.
JP_69Cutlass S_1_600x450.jpg
JP_69Cutlass S_5_600x450.jpg
February 10th, 2014, 04:06 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 878
Looks great and hope you a driving it soon! Post some interior pics too. Just curious, do you know if the TH350 is original to the car? Most 350/2bbl cars in 69 came with the 2 speed jet-a-way so the TH350 is a very welcome option/upgrade. Most also came with pretty tall gears in the rear end, so an upgrade (lower gear, higher number like 3.42) may help more than bolt-on engine goodies.
February 10th, 2014, 05:49 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 410
So many good suggestions, and great feedback. Thanks very much to all of you for that. Everybody chose #1, the '69 original numbers Cutlass S or #2, the original numbers 442. I pulled the trigger last night on #1, and got a good price from an awesome seller. I can't wait for some spring weather so I can go pick it up and bring it home.
Jensenracing77, I missed your post, but that's a very sharp Rallye. Had I seen your post before last night, I would definitely have checked in with you. I think it's worth much more that I was planning to spend, and I wish you good luck in selling the car.
The '69 S is all original except for just a couple of items. 350 Rocket with HEI, single exhaust, 90k miles. TH350 transmission was recently rebuilt because the seals started leaking, but no mods were done. New coil springs, ball joints, sway bars, bushings, and urethane to replace all of the old rubber suspension parts. Vinyl top was replaced a few years ago and is like new. All the weatherstripping has been replaced. 2-bbl carb has been rebuilt. New ignition wires, battery, tires in the past 2 years, and not a speck of rust anywhere. Interior is original and perfect. This is a true garage queen.
Although it really doesn't need anything, I'm seeing it as a blank slate. Since it's the factory single exhaust setup and 2 bbl carb, I'm assuming it's the lower output (250hp rating?) 350. I'll have a lot of research to do in planning performance build-ups, but I'm looking forward to it... I'll save that stuff for other threads.
Thanks again guys for all of your input. It's very much valued and appreciated.
Attachment 85067
Attachment 85068
Jensenracing77, I missed your post, but that's a very sharp Rallye. Had I seen your post before last night, I would definitely have checked in with you. I think it's worth much more that I was planning to spend, and I wish you good luck in selling the car.
The '69 S is all original except for just a couple of items. 350 Rocket with HEI, single exhaust, 90k miles. TH350 transmission was recently rebuilt because the seals started leaking, but no mods were done. New coil springs, ball joints, sway bars, bushings, and urethane to replace all of the old rubber suspension parts. Vinyl top was replaced a few years ago and is like new. All the weatherstripping has been replaced. 2-bbl carb has been rebuilt. New ignition wires, battery, tires in the past 2 years, and not a speck of rust anywhere. Interior is original and perfect. This is a true garage queen.
Although it really doesn't need anything, I'm seeing it as a blank slate. Since it's the factory single exhaust setup and 2 bbl carb, I'm assuming it's the lower output (250hp rating?) 350. I'll have a lot of research to do in planning performance build-ups, but I'm looking forward to it... I'll save that stuff for other threads.
Thanks again guys for all of your input. It's very much valued and appreciated.
Attachment 85067
Attachment 85068
I remember seeing that one.. sounds like you got a good one
http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/for...s-S-Neosho.php
February 11th, 2014, 02:32 PM
#39
Great ride...great choice
CONGRATULATIONS!!! Beautiful ride! Reminds me so much of the Glade Green (dark)/green/green the 1969 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe my mother bought new in August of 1969. Great car, but paint faded like you would not believe 
Like I said in my original post. I know I am prejudice, but what the heck!
Many happy miles and as the owner of a 1969 since 1970 any help you think I might be able to offer...just ask.
Scott (the newer one..lol)
Like I said in my original post. I know I am prejudice, but what the heck!
Many happy miles and as the owner of a 1969 since 1970 any help you think I might be able to offer...just ask.
Scott (the newer one..lol)
I remember seeing that one.. sounds like you got a good one
http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/for...s-S-Neosho.php
http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/for...s-S-Neosho.php
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