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Hey guys sure could use some help. I finally picked up a 71 442 after a six month quest - seems to be running pretty good -
was just looking at things and found this coming off the firewall side of the Quadra jet not really connected to anything - should I cap off or where should it go - thanks for all your help!
Last edited by vCode442; August 31st, 2019 at 05:00 PM.
Thanks, I must’ve screwed up engine vacuum - went to crank it and ran rough could barely keep it running, some black smoke too. Ran great yesterday. Any ideas? Besides a vacuum hose routing diagram and a good mechanic! 😳
The black cover on the choke appears to be turned to the rich position, turning it clockwise so the index mark is centered on the middle index mark. Make sure the choke pulloff is working when the car starts. The air cleaner base gasket appears to be missing unless it's stuck to the air cleaner base. As Fun71 noted the tube belongs in the open hole next to the other choke tube, right now it's allowing unfiltered air into the carb. Your choke can easily be converted to electric. Many YouTube videos on tuning and timing, also quadrajet rebuilding. Can you post some pictures of your 442?
That’s great info as you can probably tell I’m pretty rusty, this is my fourth 442. We were looking for a convertible that I could drive my (88 yo) dad around in and enjoy his company. It sure looks good sitting in the garage, found it on eBay the guy enclosed trailered it down to me. I probably paid right on the money it’s not a three and it could be a two when it’s running, and it really looks like a 1 from 2 feet. It certainly has its warts, here are a couple of photos. I wanted functionality not so much originality. As everyone knows vin defines 442 in 71 so yes it’s 34467, cowl tag says it was bamboo /sienna now it’s matador red /parchment. W 30 stripes - not sure why
Exhaust trumpets probably protrude a bit too far, Dual gate shifter with console in nice condition, strato buckets original
fiberglass on metal OAI hood, tilt wheel power windows AC, functioning TickTocTac
Last edited by vCode442; September 1st, 2019 at 07:00 AM.
Any and all comments/help are appreciated. Don’t hammer me on the “functionality over originality” comment - my feeling is these cars are only original once and anything done since they’ve been driven off the lot deems them less original. 48 years is a long time, it’s amazing so many are still on the road and I commend those doing everything they can to keep them original and running! So with that in mind any other help to keep this one out of the garage and on the road is greatly appreciated - I will certainly share more photos, and it looks like I’ve got a carburetion set up problem at the very least
cowl tag says it was bamboo /sienna now it’s matador red /parchment.
Yeah, cause general opinion is that all convertibles should be red. Can't tell you how many times over the past 38+ years I've heard "man if that was my car I'd paint it candy apple red".
Originally Posted by 1972vCode442
W 30 stripes - not sure why
Similar to the candy apple red thing, just because.
Thanks fun71 and Dr. Olds. Perhaps i forgot how much engine vacuum / carburetion issues can effect drivability. It felt like somebody twisted the distributor or yanked a few plug wires it really is a mess. I have my Chiltons manual from 1977 - when I had my 72 four-speed - and that provided some good information as well, but I’m probably in over my head. Have a buddy coming over tomorrow who helped me do an engine swap (ok I handed him tools) in a 71 Corvette convertible a few years back, he can pretty much fix anything but I’d like to be self-reliant - again the help on this forum is tremendously appreciated
The car is stunning!!! The color change was appropriate. I've heard nothing but good feedback from Everyday performance as far as a carb rebuild. Nice collection of toys.
Thanks dragline, carb rebuild is a great option. Unfortunately that’s the sellers stable of toys not mine, one is enough for me. That could be why I purchased this at a pretty good value - he had 13 others and was thinning things out - but it could also be why some things aren’t working as described. I don’t think he ever drove it 😳
Hello again, hoping to clarify if manifold vacuum or fuel flow/ carb issue would be more likely my culprit. Ran pretty well last week put gas in Friday drove it for 20 minutes then on Saturday morning wouldn’t start - turned over OK but really rough idle couldn’t keep it running I’ve removed the OAI air cleaner assembly and ensured 1-distributor 2-power brakes and 3-automatic transmission manifold vacuum lines are hooked up. Again the carb looks to need a rebuild, and I was able to reconnect what I think is the choke intake manifold ‘loop’.
So my theories are manifold vacuum issue / bad gas/ fuel filter /carb set up.
Any thoughts for this in over his head novice are again greatly appreciated. Thank you
Last edited by vCode442; September 1st, 2019 at 06:12 PM.
First, you need to own a CSM.
Second, you need to tune your engine to specifications listed in the CSM.
Third, you don’t even need the choke tubes connected to perform the tune-up and the engine will run just fine w/o them.
You can cap the rear carb port for the choke tube.
Bottom line: Tune-up your engine to specifications. This will include measuring your vacuum and adjusting your A/F mixture screws to the highest achievable vacuum.
Thank you Chief, I absolutely understand the benefits of a thorough tuneup, however still very perplexed at the acuteness and sudden change in engine performance.
I have a service manual coming soon and will do my level best to give it a proper and full spec tuneup.
In the meantime, still shaking my head regarding how it can run well one day and the next not even start 😡
Here’s one I’ve seen before, although a rare occurrence. Distributor lock-down bolt worked its way loose, distributor began turning slightly on its own with a loss of ignition (points remained open - loss of timing). Stuff happens.
Thanks again VC, I hear you loud and clear. Anything can happen at any time with a 48-year-old car. I did check the distributor today to see if it had moved - it’s in solid. My last 442 was a 71 hardtop that the previous owner had converted to an HEI set up - what are your thoughts on that. I was spoiled, had that for about eight years and it always started and ran really well.
I don’t want this one to be a garage queen, it sure looks nice - and 1 of 1304 sounds great, but I need to get it back on the road - thanks again for your help
As has already been mentioned, the carburetor choke inlet pipe is not inserted into the intake manifold choke stove hole; therefore, you DO NOT have a functioning choke. However, that fact alone is not going to stop your engine from starting & running, it will however effect how you start the engine and keep it running w/o a functioning choke.
(1) Good chance you might not get the choke inlet pipe inserted back into the hole - but I'd see if it goes in anyways. They need to fit TIGHT not loose - but very TIGHT in order to supply filtered air from the carburetor and continue to maintain vacuum for the choke (only). If you cannot insert the choke inlet pipe securely and very tight (it looks like the end is brittle and broken), remove that choke inlet pipe and cap the carburetor port with a rubber cap, or golf tee, or tape or whatever. You can purchase a new choke inlet pipe from many vendors but for now resolve you're not going to have a choke for the moment as you troubleshoot further. You don't need a choke but they come in handy in cold weather environments, and you can fix this moving forward.
(2) What I might suggest your issue COULD be is a bad choke pull-off (coupled with the possibility the choke is currently set to a very RICH setting/position); albeit, black smoke in the exhaust.
(3) Remove or simply loosen the three screws which hold-down the black choke cover plate which sets the (internal) choke spring. Set the choke until it is set to a more lean setting. Actually, I'd prefer you remove the entire black choke plate cover, and completely disengage the entire spring at this point so you have no tension whatsoever on the (internal) choke spring. Since, in effect, you have no functioning choke at all with no functioning choke inlet pipe. This will remove the choke completely from the system (for now) and it isn't working anyways.
(4) "IF" the choke pull-off is bad, and it is not pulling vacuum (the internal diaphragm is busted), or for whatever reason it is bad, if you have that black choke cover plate set to a very RICH position, and the choke pull-off is NOT operating, it will allow the choke to remain engaged flooding the carburetor producing a no start condition and allowing the engine to run RICH (and, it certainly looks like your carburetor from appearance is running rich). Check the integrity of that choke pull-off and the short vacuum line from the choke pull-off to the carburetor. Again, if that choke pull-off is not operating correctly, and the choke is set to a very RICH position, the engine might fail to start and continue to run rich because that choke pull-off is not disengaging the choke. It looks to me that choke pull-off is toast anyways.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; September 2nd, 2019 at 04:24 AM.
If the choke pull-off diaphragm is busted (not pulling vacuum and not pulling the linkage from the choke back), there is no vacuum applied to the choke pull-off, or the linkage itself is simply not returning the choke, the choke may be holding a rich start condition.
If you can remove the choke pull-off from the equation (for now) - either replace it or troubleshoot it so it does in fact operate correctly under vacuum and mechanically (the linage returns the choke to nominal operating condition), you MAY have found the issue.
As has already been mentioned, the carburetor choke inlet pipe is not inserted into the intake manifold choke stove hole; therefore, you DO NOT have a functioning choke.
..
They need to fit TIGHT not loose - but very TIGHT in order to supply filtered air from the carburetor and continue to maintain vacuum for the choke (only).
Chief, that's not quite right. The choke will still function properly, it will just pull air into the open end of the heater pipe instead of filtered air from the top of the air horn. No other choke function will change. There is a small vacuum source in the choke housing to pull hot air over the thermostatic coil, but that vacuum is there with the choke air pipes connected so again, no difference in choke operation with or without the clean air inlet pipe connected.
I do agree with you that from the pictures it appears the choke is set a bit too tightly, especially for summer temperatures.
Kenneth, I see your point since the choke stove inside the manifold is still connected and some warm air from the stove pipe will be able to infiltrate the choke housing to facilitate expansion/contraction of the choke coil spring.
And, if that pull-off and/or the pull-off linkage is non-operational with a rich choke setting, the choke may be stuck in the rich position with no ability to disengage the choke?
There are numerous components which make up the choke system. You need to be far, far more specific on how you manually opened the choke and which component of the choke system was stuck. I can't speak for Kenneth, but I'm terrible at reading minds. It's doubtful you resolved the 'issue' - you instead applied a band-aid.
Forgive me, I consider myself a novice - but it harkens back to 1979 living in cold Pennsylvania when I had my first 442 - it was a 1972 four-speed big block and a thing of beauty. The previous owner had slapped on a holley carburetor without a functioning choke so whenever it was cold I’d have to pop off the air cleaner assembly and tape the “choke control valve” in the closed position, start the car let it warm up and then remove the tape.
So again forgive me for my lack of technical knowledge - but I manually opened the “choke control valve” and it started right up, and to ensure that that choke control valve does not stick closed on me moving forward I removed the black cover and then the choke coil spring.
I live in Florida now and it’s rare that I need to choke manually - but I’ll be happy to get my tape out and do so in the future. I’m thinking the mechanism was stuck or not working properly (duh) and perhaps one day I’ll send this carburetor out for a rebuild.
I was in healthcare for 35 years, and most of what we do is Band-Aids, rarely do we really ‘fix’ anything (except for surgery and antibiotics) and sadly treatment outcomes aren’t always as intended. Most of our healthcare is just treating symptoms.
So yes I’d certainly like to treat the etiology of the problem, but for now I’ll take getting it started / running as a successful day!
Last edited by vCode442; September 2nd, 2019 at 04:07 PM.
If you removed the thermostatic coil under the black choke cover & the choke valve you effectively eliminated any choke operation; and, if you're satisfied w/ no choke (as the result of what you disconnected) I'd go w/ it and determine (once your CSM arrives) how and if in fact you want to address the 'issue'. Since you reside in FL, there is very likely little (if any) need for a choke, IMO. You can rebuild the carburetor on your own if you elect to - it's actually a very simple process - just ensure you purchase the correct rebuild kit. Glad you're running again.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; September 2nd, 2019 at 05:11 PM.
Reason: sp
If you're gonna go "no choke" (which I don't recommend) you should reinstall the parts you took off, but turn the choke cover (black disc) clockwise to force (and hold) the air valve fully open. Reference Vintage Chief's first picture above for the parts I am talking about. If you leave the thermostatic coil out, there's nothing holding the air valve open so the weight of the choke rod might pull the air valve closed. Once the engine is started, the air flow might cause the choke valve to open some, but I don't know for sure as I've never deliberately removed the choke parts.
I would really recommend you reinstall the parts then just turn the choke cover clockwise from where it was before. The choke is a really simple mechanism and should be fairly easy to get working at least close to correctly. You can always get a can of spray carb cleaner and clean everything up to see if that resolves the sticky issue.
Thanks again to you both, I really appreciate your help and input. I may one day try to tackle a rebuild for this carb, or might look for a more date correct one - but either way I’ll probably do what you mentioned 71, or just put in a manual choke set up like I did back in 1979.
Again I sincerely appreciate your invaluable advice!
Do whatever it takes to get it out onto the road, drive it, and HAVE FUN with your car! As you said, that is what these machines were made for in the first place.
Absolutely. I’m taking it tomorrow to the local tag office (what fun) and paying the state their share of sales tax and I will enjoy fall cruising - once we get a little cooler here in Florida - thanks again for all your help!
August 31st, 2019, 02:02 PM
