425olds

What engine is the most durable or last the longest, The Buick 430-455 or the Oldsmobile 425-455?

joe_padavano

Within statistical variations they are probably the same.

Oldsguy

I can guarantee what answer will predominate on an Oldsmobile site, kinda seems obvious. Welcome to CO.

Jamesbo

I'm not real sure what "statistical variations" means but Welcome aboard.

64Rocket

OLDS, what else is there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gene

425olds

I had a 1965 -98LS OLDS .that made me a oldsmobile fan . I beat the heck out of that car ,burn-outs .Never hurt that 425 engine. Tuff Engine

MN71W30

I had a 67 Electra 225 conv that beat a 66 98 Olds conv from a 50-90 mph race. The 430 Buicks ran real strong. I have heard complaints about the way the oil pumps work on Buicks but that was the opinion of a local loud mouth. GM did their homework on their motors. They all seem very evenly matched.

rocketraider

Based on using them to run 'baccer field irrigation pumps, I think the Buick may have just a slight edge- but just a slight one. It was hard to find either in the junkyards around here because the farmers would buy them up to run the pumps. They'd run them till they quit and then bolt up another one.

I've seen these things run 24/7 for days on end, sometimes till the exhaust manifolds glowed, stopping only long enough to fuel them and check the oil, then it was right back to watering fields. One thing for sure- when the farmer took it off the pump, it was worn out.

OLD SKL 69

Both IMHO are phenomenal engines, hard to say which one is better.

The Roadmaster

Oil pump was the bane of Pontiac's 389/421 too.

425olds

A friend had a chevy 3/4 ton van , and this was in the eighties when the early eighties chevy engines had a lot of camshaft problems. Well those junkyard engines never lasted long. John was tired pf replacing those engines ,and he was thinking about putting a olds engine in his van. Well i gave him a hand ,and we put a 1979 403 in that van .The engine had 132,000 miles on it . Had to weld motor mounts and get a 66 delta power sterring pump & brackets too make it fit. The best engine he ever put in that van . sold it 9 years later .Ran great.

wolfman98

I know that talking to some of the older guys around these parts they always wanted to find an Olds 455 to put in their fishing boats , partly for the torque and partly for the durability.

Bluevista

The place that did my engine rebuilds a lot of those Olds engines for boat people.

They used the Toronado set-up for motor homes and all kinds of custom deals. Never see people using Buhog engines much, they're weird looking too.
My old next door neighbor friend had a nailhead in his '56 Chebby, it just didn't even look right.

Oldsguy

Not sure about the Buick engine, but do know that the Olds 455 has been used a lot where durability and torque is a requirement. People have already mentioned use in boats and as power plants for irrigation and such. High torque and low rpm are a good combo for that.

WhatIf

The Olds bottom ends are all forged; crankshaft, rods, etc. That's why they make a good choice for the boat guys. More reliability.

As for power, the Buick and Pontiac engines have superior head design and make more power across the rpm range than the Oldsmobiles. The bottom end of any engine can be made of granite, or made of glass, doesn't matter, it's all in the head design, that's where the power is made.

Just for the record, the oil pump is the weak spot in the big Buick engines, and Pontiacs achilles heel is that guys try rev them to 6500 rpm like a Chevy, and then they spin a rod bearing. When the rpm's are kept within the design limits (and this is true for any engine), a Pontiac last as long as any other engine.

For durability, the forged bottom end on the Olds are the best.

Blk71SX

how long is a rope?

stevengerard

I had a 455 in my Buick Wildcat, great engine, the butt dyno said it didn't pull as hard form a dead start as my Olds but seemed to be there and more once it got going.

Techmaven

@WhatIf 455 Olds has forged rods...Forged 455 Olds crank is rare, most are high nodular iron.

Aceshigh

First of all, I'm a Chevy owner as well, so keep that in mind here.

I was told that due to the limited revving capabilities of Old's motors, and oiling issues, the Buicks were better.
To be COMPLETELY honest, I was told to stay away from Olds engines altogether. (boo hissss)
I was looking into 455 builds myself, serious tire shredding grunt, but .....not very efficient.

Of course, this was by the Chevy guys on my other site. I'm also a Chevy owner.
Lets face it......Chevy has the crown, and has better Gen III and Gen IV options today.
I can just hear the Olds purists hemming and hawwing as they read this.

I want to sell my recently rebuilt 1970 Rocket 350 drivetrain and it probably won't bring in much $$$.
I'm more of a modern pro-touring type, so keep that in mind when you read my post.
So it really depends on what you're after here as to what engine you should go with.
If your car isn't a rare Olds, and you don't foresee your car @ Mecum or Barrett Jackson
CloneWarslogo.gif
it isn't going to matter what engine you put in it IMHO.

G-Machines are the new thing everyone is going after. Pro-Touring , 6 speeds, LSx engines, etc
If you spend some time on www.lateral-g.net and www.pro-touring.com you'll see almost
everyone that has coin in their cars has gone modern.

I can just see many of the member here going......
LOL

Cecil Anderson

What is a Buick? I never heard of a Buick, some kind of deer I think--Andy

rocketraider

I can assure you that the ONLY reason they have that is because GM cut the R&D budgets on all engine development outside of Chevy. It was also well known inside GM that the Hemi-Olds was killed off because Chevrolet knew it would decimate the Corvette and went pissing and moaning to the top brass to get it stopped. And in their usual whiny way, they got what they wanted.

Look what they did to the GN when it started stomping Corvette *** in the mid 80s. That was all GM internal politics.

Lot of us here don't give a rat's *** about "modern". It's your thing, more power. I look at it this way- you want a modern car, go buy one and leave a nice older one alone. I don't like the whole pro-touring concept, same as I despised Pro Street. Those cars struck me the same way imports with fart cans and picnic table wings strike me now- a waste of time and effort, and laughable in their execution.

Nah. You've had some good input on other things, but you go with an LS engine etc, you no longer have a "classic" Oldsmobile.


Seems like GM would have got the message in the late 70s after the lawsuits over sticking Chevy engines in everything. But they didn't, and it cost them. They don't make anything that interests me now, and they have lost me as a new vehicle customer. Biggest reason is the fact they have bet the farm on Cadillac and Chevrolet, neither of which makes anything I can see myself paying on for 7 years. That and their top management has had their heads up their asses for so long everything they see is tinted brown.

Just my 2-cents.

Aceshigh

Interesting Points.
I am familiar with the GM decision to put Chevy engines in Olds cars and the huge uproar it caused. I can't say I supported that decision, but I do understand why they did it. As for the Hemi-Olds, very cool engine, no doubts about it. Probably would have made the Chrysler Hemi look like Childs play and not exactly sure why GM never embraced that one either. Considering GM owned Olds, it's hard to say they kiboshed it to avoid Corvette competition when they owned both lines and could do what they wanted and even put it in a Corvette if they wanted.

But alas, here we are today and in Oldsmobiles final 2 decades, it didn't have many getup and go options that would really appeal to many in terms of aggressive styling or engine options either IMO. Obviously with GM steering the ship, one could say they purposely didn't do it to keep competition low for Chevy. But I personally don't buy into that considering Pontiac had the Trans Am which was a hell of alot more popular then the Camaro. Knight Rider, Smokey and the Bandit, with better engines too....even the 90's late 4th gens looking like Batmobiles were highly regarded.

As for the Grand Nationals.....I don't know, Turbo Buick's were out for 6 years.....couldn't tell ya.

That's cool. You're more of a classic enthusiast all around.
We're just different in terms of functionality of bringing modern to the classics.

True.
I'm not much into 'Titles" because my car is just "my car" to me. I should say "cars".
I'm just not into the classic classic when there are so many upgrades to bring the older style into the new millenia for performance.


Can't argue with their management being heavily flawed. Obviously GM trying to retain the title of largest manufacturer in the world with so many brand names NOT bringing in enough revenue because of inner competition limitations screwed themselves IMO. Oldsmobile axed, now Pontiac. I've always regarded Oldsmobile as more of your older cushy almost Buick competitors. I'm in my mid 30's though, so this is just MY perception.

Pontiac was always a performer, even dying out with the G8 and the GTO and GXP models. But GM closed them too because the were just cloning Chevy, Toyota (or Holdens) and not selling enough of the rest of their model lines. But as for the Camaro and Corvette......I'm a fan, and always will be. I owe no loyalties to either by way of family history or workmanship. I just really appreciate the technology that has gone into the LSX engines and the 6 speeds offered. BTW - IMO they're not just betting the farm on Cadillac and Chevy.....have you seen the revamped Buick lineups ??? The 2010 LaCrosse is going to put a serious DENT in Lexus sales IMHO. That's who they are targeting. The blue collar man's luxury sedans are pretty damn sweeeeeet.

When Most of us thought of Buick, we thought of the stigma of an elderly mans brand car. Not anymore, they're getting the same aggressive facelift Cadillac recently got.

425olds

How about a race ? A GNX vs STAGE 1. Well any sliderule bench racers out there.

425olds

How about the 425 olds engine .Was it a match for the 425 nailhead buick? I had the 425 olds in a 1965 -98 luxury sedan and i raced a friend [Carlos] in his 1966 ss Impala 396 in a half/mile race . Won by half a car. `I could not belive i won . He had headers on his car . But found out later it was a 325 horse engine . He was always bragging about how fast it was.We were in chicago ,and we race down the express way ramp, from laramie to cicero on the ike -expressway. that olds shut that braggard up.

WhatIf

Well, I've never heard that the reason the Olds Hemi was killed was due to the Corvette! The Olds Hemi was killed because there was no reason to produce that engine for 1971. With regular fuel and low compression mandated by GM, Oldsmobile no longer saw a reason to produce the expensive W-43 Hemi.

And from what I've read, Oldsmobile small block cylinder heads were the most efficient of all the GM divisions, so Oldsmobile was assigned the diesel project. When all the Olds 350 blocks were allocated for diesel production, Chevy engines were transplanted into some Oldsmobiles out of necessity.

toro68

I second that!

toro68

This is why many Oldsmobile buffs drives Fords as their daliy drivers!
GM gave away the market, when they dropped the rear drive G-body cars in the late 1980s.
( I "hoaned" my driving skills on turbo T-Type Regal (sleeper version of the GN).
In my family , (I grew with 1968, 1972 & 1973 Toronados, plus a a 1987 Buick T-Type for 20 years), former owned two AWD Tempos(1988 and 1991), two Explorers (1998 and 2002 models), and my dad just got a nice 2008 Tarus, awd, to replace the Explorer.

I myself a 1995 F-150 (300 six) with over 321,000 miles, just sold my 92 Crown Vic, probaly getting my father's 1998 Explorer(which has almost 350,000 miles!)

The Roadmaster

Can't say that anything after 1970 has earned classic status.

Madison Avenue and the EPA were responsible for the sale of crap cars after that. Those advertising whiz kids polished the turds of the EPA mandated piles of crap.

But I do have a CLASSIC dwell tach in my garage.

mugzilla

The Ick is lighter than the competition ...

W machines were intended to race, with balanced blueprinted engines ...

I'll take one of each ...

toro68

"I am familiar with the GM decision to put Chevy engines in Olds cars and the huge uproar it caused. I can't say I supported that decision, but I do understand why they did it"

In the late 1970s, when the Cutlass, was selling a million plus units a year, the motor divsion of Oldsmobile could not keep up with the demand. This is one of the reasons for the Chevy motors in the Oldsmobiles.

On the issues of Cutlass, was the 215 V-8 motor a Buick unit? (1962/63 ish era)
Two of my unlces (both my dad's older brothers), one bought a new 63 Cutlass and the oldest one got a used gray '63 Jetfire (at the same time his wife got a brand new 1966 Cutlass wagon). I think my Unlce Moes got the Jetfire, because he took the 1948 Buick Roadmaster convertible off the road!

rocketraider

Buick basic design with Oldsmobile-specific heads and intake. Buick never turbo'd their version, though Rover England turned the li'l beast into a real powerhouse after Buick sold them the tooling. The Brits have a ton of aftermarket hotrod stuff for the 215.

Yup. Olds didn't have engine plant capacity to keep themselves sourced, so they honored the commitments they had to sell 403's to Buick and Pontiac and bought Chevy engines for their own stuff. And oh god did it cost them- not only in sales and lawsuits, but in tarnished reputation.

Allan R

Hmmmmm, the only way I can answer that is based on the number of big Olds and Buicks I see in the wreckers. I think it's pretty much a tie.

Both engines were built to git r done on some substantially heavy iron of the day. I've driven both and have not been disappointed with either.

Allan R

Naw, you've got a killer Cutlass. Besides what's to gain by alienating a valued member of CO? Your opinion counts and I'm glad you're willing to share it. thx.

ththththumbape.gif

mugzilla

This has to be the easiest site ever ...

MN71W30

The Olds beating the 396 doesn't surprise me at all. I had a 64 Rivera with the 425 engine and I raced a 66 98 convertible and it was a dead even race. My nail head couldn't handle the abuse I heaped on it as a young lead footed kid. It started to smoke and use oil so I sold it.

68conv455

I wouldn't hesitate buying a big block Buick. I'd park it right next to the Olds.

425olds

The first olds i had ,was a 1962 -98 and it had the 394 engine in it. For a big car it was quick. Blew it up because it leaked oil and i forgot to put oil in it . Next one was a 63 -98. Same thing. So i thought oldsmobiles were junk. Bought the 65 for a song, and it ran bad ,DID A TUNE YP AND THAT WAS THE STRONGEST OLDS I EVER HAD . Love that 425 engine.wish i never sold it . Had a196 8 -98 and it was not as fast.

425olds

How about the 394 olds engine ? I can,t find any performance information on this engine. I like this engine too! Especially the super sky rocket. Any info will be very useful to me. Was this engine any good. And was it durable .How did it stack up to the buick and poncho engines? Was the slim-jim trans strong as the turbo 400?

MN71W30

Years ago we put a 394 in a 50 Olds club coupe with a factory 3 speed stick tranny. I saw it beat a 66 GTO without too much trouble. It had enough torque to break more than one axle. It ran like a watch. We had one in a 63 Starfire that ran great too but the slim jim tranny was primitive and wasn't the best, especially the 1st to 2nd shift.