Allan R

I just recently pulled my OEM radiator (copper/brass) as I wanted to get it pressure tested and cleaned. It pressure tests ok, but the shop wants to re-core it saying the core is rotten. Well if it pressure tests ok, and flows coolant ok, is that a sign it's rotten??? They want to re-core it with a 3 row core for 735 + tax. Comments?

Fun71

The only thing I can think of is the fins may be degrading or separating from the tubes. I once had a radiator that a section of the fins appeared to have corroded away.

As for the price, I got a 4 row high efficiency core installed in my original 3 row end tanks for half of that, but it was also over 10 years ago so I have no idea what current prices are.

Allan R

One side of the rad looks like brand new (front). The back side the fins got mashed a bit by a mechanic changing belts in a previous life. I'm on the fence about whether to re-core or not. BTW, in terms of $$? $735 here is the same as $500 in the US

Kenneth, part of my dilemna is I'm changing the cooling to HD. I have the water pump, pulley, fan shroud and seals. Gears are changed from 2.73 to 3.42. I'm leaning toward 3 row core to handle the cooling. Just not sure if the 2 row core will suffice once the HD cooling is added. The car doesn't have AC.

OLDSter Ralph

Re-coring a radiator is not cheap. I think I paid $450 US to have a four row '64 Starfire radiator done two years ago. I prefer re-coring, myself. The original radiator lasted 50 years and leaks can be repaired more easily. A three row radiator would be a minimum for 3.42 gears, I would think. Didn't the HD cooling option in 1972 include a four row radiator ?
........Just my two cents worth.

Allan R

Truer words never spoken.

I'm in the guessing game here too. I looked up the radiator codes in the Inpsectors guide, and Parts manual but no mention of whether it's 4 row. The car isn't going to be raced, and I think it will be limited to around 60 mph on the highway, so with all the air channeling I'm putting into the rad support I'm hoping that will cool it nicely. Some people I've talked to say that a good 3 row is as effective as a 4 row so we'll see.

Allan R

So just back from the rad shop. They said the old core was only holding pressure because of the accumulated scale inside. Once it was dissolved the pressure dropped to zero. They will eat the clean and pressure test if I elect to put in a new 3 row. Since I'm over a barrel, I asked for a further discount and they said 700.00 even. Then they wanted to know what color I wanted it. Gloss, satin, or flat black. Went with Satin. It will be ready early next week. Can't wait to see how it turned out.

11971four4two

The 3 row "SS" tag radiator had a 4 core size tank on the fill side
3 row core with smaller driver side tank
My V code still has this style

Tags are easy to change LOL

If you are going to spend money on a recore
Get as many core wide as your tanks will handle

Or mayhap get some 4 row tanks and spend the same $$$ for overkill radiator

ZK is the factory tag for 4 core

3 and 4core about $500$$$ US around here

jensenracing77

I personally would call them and tell them you want the new core ordered with no top and bottom rail and that you want your original rails used. Most of the replacement cores have really ugly rails on them. If they can't do it I would go pick up the radiator and find another radiator shop that can. Here in Indiana I can get the big 4 core radiators re-cored for under $500 USD. Tell them that you also want the old core back. The scrap yards here give around $30 and up for the old core.

OLDSter Ralph

I hope you're satisfied. Its a big chunk of money, but it will last a very long time and will be trouble free. I just hope a three row will work for you.

Allan R

I'll keep you updated. Not sure about whether the top and bottom rails of the new core would really be much different than stock. I never measured or checked it before handing it over. Why wouldn't a good 3 row core have good rails??
Yes, it's a big chunk of money either way you slice the pie. It was a surprise but I guess considering the age of the cooling system it shouldn't have been. Sticker shock was the cost of re-core. Like everyone says, it's about the same ($C converted to $US) on both sides of the border. There aren't too many shops here in Edmonton that do this anymore.

jensenracing77

I did forget that the 2 and 3 core radiator hold down covers all the top and bottom rail. It would not be so bad if you can't see it. Here is a picture of what most new rails look like.

Allan R

Eric, You forgot the picture.
Yes the rad top plate hides the radiator almost completely. There are also bottom seals, side seals and front air flow deflectors to channel air where it's most needed to cool the rad and also flow over the block.

Mr Shifty Sidney

I would think the 3 core would be fine. If it were me I would duplicate what the factory did. ie...pulleys, shroud, rad. My non A/C 71 W has 3.42 gears and 3 row SS rad, no shroud. That is the way it came from factory and verified with AM. I don't recall my SS having the 4 core tank on one side. Pretty sure both tanks are the same size.

Don W

Allan R

Don, that's reassuring. My car is now 3.42's posi changed from open 2.73. I was wondering if the 3 row would be enough, but your comment about the non shroud is interesting. I still plan to put the shroud onto mine to help focus the cooling. Thank you for chiming in. Is your 71 a 350 or 455? If it's a 350 I'd love to know what the drive gear and driven gears are. I need to change mine to make the speedo and odometer read correctly.

Fun71

I think you will be OK. My first car was a 1970 Cutlass Supreme 350-4bbl, AC, 3 row radiator, 2.56 rear that I swapped to a 3.55 rear. I was a young kid that ran the car hard and never had any overheating issues. I lived on the Gulf Coast where it was hot most of the year and as I said, no overheating issues with the low gears, AC, hot environment, and exuberant driving style.

aqua67w30

US Radiator make nice brass and copper radiators. Check their website.

Allan R

Kenneth - Thanks for that explanation on your gear swap and cooling. I think I should be ok too.

Actually I did. Closest rad they have for me is one for a 71 Camaro. Price was $450. Factor in shipping, duty, tariffs and conversion and it's less economical than having the OEM one re-cored..

Rocketbrian

Alan, last August I took my original rad into a local old rad shop to have it upgraded from a 2 row to a 3 row unit. They fixed some dents in the original tanks and ordered and installed the new core for 660.00 taxes in. They measured and ordered the core from Spectra Premium out of Quebec. The car, a non A/C 455 cools much better with the wider rad. It is an expensive proposition but worth it in the long run. One good thing you can increase your cooling capacity and keep your original tanks so it all fits the same and it looks stock.

Allan R

Brian, how is the re-core a wider rad? You lost me there.
EDIT: you mean thicker as in 3 rows, not width of the radiator?

Rocketbrian

Yes sorry, I meant thicker.

Allan R

I didn't ask where the rad shop would source the core from, but seeing how it's going to be copper, likely it will be Spectra Premium too. They can get those cores from the local outlet here on quick turnaround. I asked them to paint it satin black. What color did you have yours done?

I've also got a new brass petcock to go in.

Rocketbrian

Based on my observations and what I read, the rad should be gloss black, that, and the power steering pump, not the brackets, are the very few items that are gloss, everything else is various shades of semi flat/ satin black.
I am attaching a pic or two. You caught me at an opportune moment as I just put the rebuilt 455 in my convertible this morning and was in the garage with the rad beside the car.

Allan R

That looks good. Not the same style of rad I have. My filler cap is on an angle and the transmission cooler lines are closer to the middle of the tank. I see you're also using tower clamps. Any trouble fastening them? I read an article about them not working properly unless there's some lube under the screw to keep it from 'walking'.

Where did you get the upper rad hose? Doesn't look like the one Fusick sent me and I complained about.

Judging from the overflow line down the side I'm guessing you're not installing a radiator overflow reservoir?

Rocketbrian

My 71s all have the flat tanks without the slant and none have the overflow reservoirs. I think those changes happened in 72. As far as the tower clamps, they can have their challenges. You must be very careful to keep the screws perfectly straight and vertical while tightening. They look great when done right.
Ah the upper rad hose, the one Fusick sells and others is horrible looking. I initially had one and couldn't stand it so I tried Inline Tube and theirs is what you see in the picture. It is very close to having the same bends as the factory hose. The other one you see on many Cutlasses is the generic after-market one with so many curves it looks like an eel. 😂
Good luck with yours.

Allan R

The radiator is back!

Park did a really nice job with the re-core although I didn't care for the corporate decal they put on the side of the tank so it got turfed immediately. Then I test fitted it to see what the difference in clearance to fan might be. Hardly more than 1/4" difference due to the thickness of the new core - it fits the lower and upper saddles perfectly like it was never changed..

There will be plenty of clearance for the new water pump, shroud, fan/fan clutch. All I have to do is line up where I need the shroud mounting tabs to go. I think the easiest way to do that is reverse engineer. I'll mount the shroud to the top plate and line it up underneath, then mark the locations for the tabs. Since I don't have a welder and this is such a small job, I'll just rivet the tabs on and secure them a little more with some JB Weld. (after I make sure there's no issues with the fan clearance.

It's going from a stock 4 blade normal cooling to 6 blade HD cooling. Park kept their word on keeping the Harrison rad tag. A little hard to read the bottom but the radiator is 3027537 2. I suspect the 2 at the end means 2 row core, same as the C 2 between A A means Core - 2 row? It's not completely accurate now and I'd guess that an AA core for 3 row would be OG and C3?
Here's how it turned out; I'm quite happy with it. I don't know why those straps are there. I did ask about it and they said to leave them in place. They look goofy but I guess they aren't hurting anything.

OLDSter Ralph

Sounds like everything will fall into place. No re-routing radiator hoses and transmission lines.

olds 307 and 403

Aftermarket fan? The factory 4 blade fan works very well and may out cool an aftermarket design.

Allan R

Exactly! OEM cores so it all lines up like it was just out of the factory. Plug and play at its finest. I don't even have to put in the new petcock I have - it was done as part of the service.

No sir, that is an OEM fan from a 72 Cutlass with Y72 cooling. The 4 blade has it's place, but not with the HD cooling I'm putting in. The water pump won't allow for the 4 blade fan simply because of the way it's configured. I restored the 6 blade fan. What you see in the picture started out like this





Local Pick and Pull from around 11?? years ago. I sandblasted it, hand sanded, changed sandblast grit to fine glass, then hand sanded it again before paint. I should post a thread on the restoration. It was fun. Took almost a full day just for the fan to look like it does. I like the color choice better than painting it all black. The PITA part was taping off the rivets on the back side so they would be silver.

olds 307 and 403

It is a clutch fan, correct? Very nice job on restoring that fan.

Allan R

Yes, the clutch isn't in the picture.

jensenracing77

Looks like they done a real good job on the radiator. I have seen some re-cores that were really bad before. Not sure where I will go if my shop ever goes out.

redoldsman

Allan, you do incredible work. I think you are going to be very happy with your new cooling system.

Allan R

Eric, I thought so too. There are only a few of the shops in the area left who do brass/copper rads. One I called and the woman on the phone started talking incessantly without getting to the point; so much that I decided I didn't want to go there. The other 2 was a toss up, but I went to the one that was easier to access even though it cost me a little more. I expect this radiator to work better than the old 2 row by a good margin.

Thanks Glenn. I'll keep the thread updated when the cooling system is finished. As mentioned to Eric, I have high expectations of this cooling system modification.

Oldsmaniac

The radiator look nice! Want to do the same thing with the radiator pulled out of a 67 442 I recently purchased. Its a 2 row Harrison that I want to have recored with a 3 row.

troyd

Allan,

Top Notch work!

You sir, are a steely-eyed missle man!

Cheers,

Troy

Mr Shifty Sidney

Looks good Allan. To answer your questions from your other post. I think the 137 stamped on your radiator tag designates which transmission cooler is used. The smaller C & 2 embossed on your radiator tank is the date code. A= Jan, B=Feb, C=March. Although I have only seen letters used for the date code I would guess the 2 would be the 2nd week of March???

Don W

Allan R

Best way to find out is take the rad into a trusted shop that will still do these re-cores and ask if the inlet tank will support handling a 3 row. I'd bet it will. What I'm finding out is that (in my case) the IA side was common, and the OF side is specific to the production needs. Maybe find out if the embossed letters on the side of the tank are suitable? Do NOT be surprised at the price quoted for a copper core 3 row re-core. It shook me when I found out, especially since aluminum ones are a lot cheaper. I wanted the car to retain as close as possible to OEM in my case. Good luck with your rad. Love to hear back what you find out.

Thank you sir. You make me blush

Thanks for the follow up Don. I saw another Harrison tag that Bigdooly had that showed IA, AA and 138 with letters OG. Since I don't have a clue what the 137 is, I bow to your suggestion. The C-2 makes a lot of sense. Here I thought it was Core - 2 row. But I know the production date of my car. It was started at FBW Lansing on April 7, and rolled off final production on April 10, 1972. That's right in line with the rad being produced Second week of March, 1972. What are the chances the the 2 could designate the model year? Just throwing that out there for discussion, as there isn't a lot of explanation I've seen on this topic.

Oldsmaniac

There is a long time shop here family run that I used in the early 70's, I am surprised they are still around. I bought a repo manual trans 3 row brass radiator for my 67 Trac Pac from OPGI it was close to 700 dollars. Turns out the lower port was too small for the factory radiator hose. I took it to this shop to have that changed. The guy looked at the repo unit and asked what I paid. I told him and he said he could have built me one for less than that. That was 5 years ago or more so I expect to pay what you paid for yours.... I hope!

Allan R

Why am I just not shocked to hear that? Again, that's one of the reasons I wanted to keep my rad tanks intact. I did have another 3 row radiator I bought from another CO member but it turns out to be the wrong height and the core is junk. Too bad I didn't ask him what it was out of and whether it was pressure tested before I bought it from him. Not much I can do about it now. If you're looking for a nice set of 3 row tanks, I can cut the core out and send them your way. You'd have to specify how tall the rad is though so you don't run into the same snafu I did. The tanks are 18 1/2" tall, and it's not OEM. It has what looks like an old Firestone Logo on it. LMK via PM if you're interested or would like some pics.

RocketDevo

To clarify what some of the previous posts have said.
Mr Shifty Sidney is correct, the letter between embossed tank code letters is the month of the radiator.
The rad code tag will tell you the tanks and the type of transmission cooler.
In the case of the "SS" rad code tag, the tanks are "IA" and "CF"
The number under the tank letters denotes the type of trans cooler and the very bottom number is the part number for the radiator.
The "SS" rad tag code radiator is 3 core on both sides.
1971 was a transition year for Harrison radiators some were slant filler neck and some were not.
Up to 1970 the bottom rad hose outlet was a larger diameter, and the transmission line outlets were spaced further apart.
In 1971 the bottom rad hose outlet became smaller and the spacing for the transmission cooler lines became closer.
By 1972 all filler tanks were slanted.
Hope this helps.