sammy

Just wondering if thie odometer has turned. Any help would be great.

Ted

Allan R

Ted, IMO the answer is a sold YES.
The question is how many times? If you look at the overall condition of the car, with special attention to the engine / trans it will tell a story of wear and tear. In 1970 if I had just bought a CS there's no way I wouldn't be driving it every day. Back then you kept a car for around 4 years and got a new one. Avg mileage back then was around 12-15K / year. High mileage was around 20K/year. Chances that your car was only driven 14K? 0% How far have you driven it?

BTW that's interesting artwork someone did on the speedo face. You going to leave it or restore it back to black?

EDIT: Just an afterthought. A car with only 14K miles would likely have been carefully stored and protected as an 'investment'. You already know it's seen hard use and that it's been repainted at least once....

MDchanic

Are you asking whether there is a way to tell by looking at a five-digit odometer whether it has gone back around to 00000?

- Eric

sammy

Totally agree! I have not driven it yet....down the driveway.All sitting around the shop after painting, and the guys could believe how mint the car was mechanically-the frame running gear-one of my mechanic friends swore all the lines were original...other than the mickey mouse stuff that was done to it at some time,the car is in good shape. This is all part of the research that I am doing to find out the history of the car...hence the odometer reading-The guys said that the numbers would look crooked and not in line if it had turned...Believe me,I am not trying to make this car into something it"s not, just trying to answer all these darn questions running around in my head about the car

MDchanic

No way.

- Eric

Allan R

As Eric and most of us know, there is NO way to tell if a 5 digit speedo has turned the clock just by looking at it.

They would be wrong. My car has original mileage (that I have documented) at 120+K. Even prior to turning the clock the odometer was NEVER 100% lined up. Sometimes when it turned on the 'thousand' it would take over a hundred miles for the 100, 10 and 1's to line up half ***. These speedos were cranked out by the bucket load and I'm positive there's no guarantee they will line up perfectly every time, even on my 83 Ninety Eight this was a common 'frustration'.

sammy

So basically, it would be impossible to find out the TRUE mileage on any older car-is that what you guys are saying?-

"most of us"......interesting-......

MDchanic

It would be impossible.

That's why documentation adds so much to the value of a true colectible.

- Eric

jaunty75

Technically, since any odometer can be tampered with, you can't really know with 100% certainty the mileage on any car. Period.

77vista

Pretty much this. I know for a fact my Vista has 60K miles on it, only due to the fact it has tons of documentation. Everything from the original paper working stating 8 miles on the odo to the last services that were done to it prior to me taking ownership.

If you are unsure, when stating the milage just say X12345.

Allan R

Unless you owned the car from new, what Eric said!!

That's basically why the auto industry started going with a 6 digit odometer. On a used car you do run the risk that someone could have altered it. That happened with my 95 Olds Regency Elite. It had a digital dash - which is supposed to be 'tamperproof'. However when I bought the car it showed 172,000 km on the dash. But the car had been sold at auction in Ontario 3 years earlier with 177,000 km. I did a Carfax on it and that confirmed the fraud. I reported the fraud to the company I bought the car from, and AMVIC. Both worked with me to resolve the issues. One thing I learned was that the digital dash actually is tamperproof. What is not? The dash had been replaced with another one showing lower mileage.

If you look on ebay, there are tons of speedo clusters for sale. Who's to say that anyone couldn't buy one, install it and claim actual mileage? No one. The only car we own that I know for a fact has actual mileage is my wifes Saturn. 140,566 actual kms. Documented. I do all my own mtce and keep records too.

MDchanic

That is harder with newer cars - the dash cluster computer talks to the engine computer, and if they haven't been properly introduced, it will light a "tamper" LED in the odometer. If you change the cluster on a newer car, you've got to have a dealer use his computer to get the parts to play nice, or they won't work well together.

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Also pay attention to details when you work on it. Condition of the seats - foam, springs, etc. Wear patters in the carpet - should be original and show little wear if 14k miles. Look at mechanical linkages like the window regs, guides and tracks - again wear should be minimal. I would guess an original starter and alt could be there if only 14k miles.

I had doubts when I bought Lady long ago and the odo showed 48k. The PO said it "must have" rolled once. Owning a true 150k mile Ford, I knew what the wear patterns are. In conclusion, i found Lady to have 156k now. Even though, she runs as if she is still a young 'un...

droptopron

I wonder if that is indicative that is was a junk yard piece or on someone's shelf at one time?

allyolds68

Look at the rubber brake/clutch pedal pads and the gas pedal. Dishonest people are generally lazy

Allan R

Good info there Eric. When you say 'newer cars' what years would that start with? I took my 95's gage cluster out so I could restore the front plastic housing and some burnt out lights. It's all connected on the back with a monster big plug (It also had the optional 56 circuit monitoring system). When I was looking at the overlay in front of the lights, there was nothing that said 'tamper'. I just went and looked at my 2007 Sonata. It also doesn't have that anywhere I can see.

On a second line of thought, I don't think anyone can guarantee that the required computer dealers use couldn't have been used by an unscrupulous employee? Or possibly a creative computer genius could make one and bypass the ECU codes that register the speedo?

Anyway, that's really moot when it comes back to the OP. In 70 there just wasn't that kind of foresight in place, and I'm sure there were plenty of small curbers and side lots with speedo 'spin doctors' to get top $$ for that 'low mileage car only driven to Church and back'.

MDchanic

About 1998 or 2000. Pretty much in line with the start of OBDII.

Perhaps I was too literal.
It doesn't say "Tamper." It is a plain LED, or a single LED display segment, just before the leftmost digit, that lights and stays lit if there has been a change that the computer isn't happy with.
The average person might not even notice it, but if you look in the service manual, it's mentioned.
I wish I could remember which specific cars I've seen this on.

- Eric

Allan R

Ok, so we're back to around 95. My Regency had OBDII and so does my wife's 06 Saturn.

Now on the Olds, the dash was digital. I still have the owners manual and looked up what I could for the odometer. OK, Now we're getting somewhere.
a) digital dash - odometer will change to read ERROR if some has tampered with it.
b) analog dash - odometer will have silver lines between the numbers if tampered with.

My wifes Saturn is 96 but an analog dash. Owners manual says odometer is tamper proof. If changes required new odometer must be set to existing mileage. If installed showing 0000000, a sticker must be affixed to the door indicating true mileage. That's it. Nothing about ECU montoring. Analog odometer and trip meter = no ECU monitoring right? So on this car, the odometer could be rolled back and no one would ever know?? That sux.

Sonata odometer is digital. Owners manual says it's illegal to 'modify or alter' the odometer setting in regards to accumulated mileage. But that's all. Probably ECU monitored.

Since today's odometers are all digital and monitored by ECU, I'd bet $$ that some computer genius could easily find a way to reprogram and bypass the ECU to show a false reading. Same type of crime in a different era. I think the owners manual statement about odometers being tamper proof was intended as a deterent rather than an absolute statement. Any time you make a rule, you gotta know someones gonna break it.

MDchanic

Nope. All of the gauges on the newer cars (roughly 2000 and up) are actually computer displays that take their information from the computer, which gets it from the sensors. It tells the odometer digits when to roll.

- Eric

Bluevista

The newer ones can be messed with, I saw an episode of that Wheeler Dealers show from the U.K. and they had a guy come in that specializes in checking the digital odometers to see if they've been altered. They had a bunch of newer used cars for him to test and with a laptop hooked up to the diagnostics port he was able to determine if the odometers had been tampered with or not and found one that was.
Locks are for honest people.

Allan R

??? that would involve another little motor behind the cluster..... Hey, I just measured my left leg and it's now 3" longer than my right one. Way to go Eric!
I get the idea with the digital stuff. But what I was referring to by analog was not only the speedo, but the odometer and trip meter. There actually is a cable on our 96 going from the tranny to the cluster. So it's not as tamper proof as they claim.

I'm with Blue on the integrity of 'honest' people.