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New Hurst "Competition Plus" shfter with grade 2 bolts

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New Hurst "Competition Plus" shfter with grade 2 bolts

Old May 4th, 2019, 08:05 PM
  #1  
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Angry New Hurst "Competition Plus" shfter with grade 2 bolts


What is the world coming to ?
The last line in the second pic tells it all !



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Old May 4th, 2019, 08:42 PM
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I understand the concern with all the products that are being manufactured in China, but one thing you do have to realize is that products produced for Hurst Corporation are most likely according to Hurst specifications and hopefully Hurst has a quality control to address issues that do not meet the standards... The grade two bolts in question could actually be by design since it is used only as a stop control for the shift lever... Not defending the Chinese Manufacturers, just looking at the possible Hurst design...
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Old May 5th, 2019, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CRUZN 66 View Post
I understand the concern with all the products that are being manufactured in China, but one thing you do have to realize is that products produced for Hurst Corporation are most likely according to Hurst specifications and hopefully Hurst has a quality control to address issues that do not meet the standards... The grade two bolts in question could actually be by design since it is used only as a stop control for the shift lever... Not defending the Chinese Manufacturers, just looking at the possible Hurst design...
It's not only the stop bolts , but also the bolts that attach the shift lever .
Grade 2 bolts are made of " butter metal " and might be acceptable for a kids swing set . But certainly not for automotive use . Grade 5 is a minimum .

How much did they save ? Maybe a couple of bucks ? Unacceptable !
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Old May 5th, 2019, 03:54 AM
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How do you know the bolts are grade 2? By a bolt head marking system made and used in the USA that might be, and probably is, disregarded in China? I'd be more worried about the brackets.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 05:53 AM
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I don't see how you guys are defending anything made in China. I have never got any product made in China that was worth a crap. I replaced the ceiling heater in my bath with one from the same manufacturer but the replacement was made in China. Guess what, the holes that are supposed to match the 4 X 4 electrical box mounting locations didn't even come close. They can't even copy something correctly. Everything from China is crap and I refuse to buy their junk if there is a USA made alternative. I would go to swap meets and find used shifters before buying the new one made in China.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 06:51 AM
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I know people want to bash Chinesium parts, but think about the loads on those bolts for a second. As noted, the stop bolts are irrelevant. There is virtually no load on those. The bolts holding the shifter handle to the body are actually only holding the clamping brackets together. The actual load on the bolts is also quite small. I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over this. If you're slamming the shifter lever that hard, you've got a different problem.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 09:28 AM
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I don't think the bolts are an issue either. My issue is that the material used in China made parts is, mostly inferior to USA parts. Ever saw Chinese bearings after a short time of use? Bearings should be made from controlled material. I bought one set of bearings (my last set from China) made in China and there were pits in the supposedly hardened and ground to size races. Never again.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 11:38 AM
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It's no different with B&M shifters. I saw they were Junk Chinese more than a decade ago.

No load on those bolts? Are you nuts? They get impacted every time the shifter is slammed into position. Nobody buys a Hurst shifter to shift it like Grandpa did.

I don't care if the thing is "designed and inspected" by Hurst in the USA. Nobody goes to China to build a better product. They go to China to cut costs to the bone, so they can get higher profit margins. Hurst can kiss my azz.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 06:44 PM
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Those are likely 3/8" bolts. Grade 2 have a 57,000 PSI minimum yield. Those are probably still overkill for the application.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
No load on those bolts? Are you nuts? They get impacted every time the shifter is slammed into position.
What Joe was explaining is that the bolts clamp two pieces of steel together. They keep things in place because their clamping force causes friction between the metal pieces and this friction is what withstands the slamming into position. The bolts don't act like a shear pin; they don't see any shearing force. Read his answer again with that in mind.

I'm not defending any Chinesium... Just explaining how those bolts do their job.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 07:34 PM
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Most Chinese stuff IS crap and you better hope it stays that way. All this East Asian stuff started out as crap. Remember in the 50s “made in Japan” meant junk? Look at their stuff now. Remember in the 60s “made in Taiwan “ meant crap? Now all the body parts that we buy, save a few, are made in Taiwan. A lot of their other goods are decent quality also. So if China follows suit, and there is no reason why they won’t given the way they are stealing our technology, soon their goods will be a lot better. They know how to do it now . Lock at all your cell phones and computers, all made in China. Most of the steel connecting rods priced under $1000 are at least forged in China and all the cheap cranks. These are actually pretty decent. Unlike Joe Biden, I think the Chinese are eating our lunch. The only President who has tried to stop them is Trump.
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Old May 5th, 2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Fpcopo View Post
Most Chinese stuff IS crap and you better hope it stays that way. All this East Asian stuff started out as crap. Remember in the 50s “made in Japan” meant junk? Look at their stuff now. Remember in the 60s “made in Taiwan “ meant crap? Now all the body parts that we buy, save a few, are made in Taiwan. A lot of their other goods are decent quality also. So if China follows suit, and there is no reason why they won’t given the way they are stealing our technology, soon their goods will be a lot better. They know how to do it now . Lock at all your cell phones and computers, all made in China. Most of the steel connecting rods priced under $1000 are at least forged in China and all the cheap cranks. These are actually pretty decent. Unlike Joe Biden, I think the Chinese are eating our lunch. The only President who has tried to stop them is Trump.
Right on !
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Old May 6th, 2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bw1339 View Post
Those are likely 3/8" bolts. Grade 2 have a 57,000 PSI minimum yield. Those are probably still overkill for the application.
^^^ THIS!

Math is your friend. To add to this, the root diameter of a 3/8-16 bolt is 0.300". At 57ksi, that's just about 6300 lbs before you start to yield that fastener in tension. Two of those will lift your car with a factor of safety of three.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Fpcopo View Post
Most Chinese stuff IS crap and you better hope it stays that way. All this East Asian stuff started out as crap. Remember in the 50s “made in Japan” meant junk? Look at their stuff now. Remember in the 60s “made in Taiwan “ meant crap? Now all the body parts that we buy, save a few, are made in Taiwan. A lot of their other goods are decent quality also. So if China follows suit, and there is no reason why they won’t given the way they are stealing our technology, soon their goods will be a lot better. They know how to do it now . Lock at all your cell phones and computers, all made in China. Most of the steel connecting rods priced under $1000 are at least forged in China and all the cheap cranks. These are actually pretty decent. Unlike Joe Biden, I think the Chinese are eating our lunch. The only President who has tried to stop them is Trump.
As the standard of living improves in China , the quality of goods may improve , But the cost of these goods will also go up .
Then corporate America will shift manufacturing to Africa or India or some other shithole place to keep their profit margins high .
The only way this situation will ever improve is if the majority of Americans insist on quality goods , never mind the price .
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Old May 6th, 2019, 10:46 AM
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Charlie, you are correct !
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Old May 6th, 2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
^^^ THIS!

Math is your friend. To add to this, the root diameter of a 3/8-16 bolt is 0.300". At 57ksi, that's just about 6300 lbs before you start to yield that fastener in tension. Two of those will lift your car with a factor of safety of three.
Who cares about math, if the math is misused.

The bolt I'm looking at appears to be a "stop", that limits travel of the shifter mechanism. Tensile strength is essentially meaningless in a compression application. A soft bolt will deform from having the mechanism bang against it. Then the "stop" will need to be adjusted. Rinse and repeat.

The fun will come when the bolt is so damaged that it has to be cut out to be replaced, because the male bolt threads will no longer fit through the female threads.

As for lifting the vehicle with them...Let's use your vehicle. And let's do it often enough that fatigue strength is measured as well as yield strength..

Originally Posted by Charlie Jones View Post
As the standard of living improves in China , the quality of goods may improve , But the cost of these goods will also go up .
Then corporate America will shift manufacturing to Africa or India or some other shithole place to keep their profit margins high .
The only way this situation will ever improve is if the majority of Americans insist on quality goods , never mind the price .
The USA DESPERATELY needs an import tax, to drive the cost of shithole products in line with what First-World companies can compete with.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 10:56 AM
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Ya out of a box of 100 fasteners or 100 rotors or 100...insert your part here... Ill bet a 1/3 meet spec.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 11:43 AM
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I learned a long time ago that the only way to test a bolt for strength is to stress it to failure, of course then that particular bolt is worthless since it broke. Says nothing about the strength of the rest of the bolts, only that the test bolt was up to specification. The rest might or might not be the same.
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Old May 6th, 2019, 12:22 PM
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Not surprising at all, but the Big3 Auto Parts retailers are among the companies most exposed to Chinese tarriffs

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/06/here...reaks-out.html
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Old May 6th, 2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by droptopron View Post
Not surprising at all, but the Big3 Auto Parts retailers are among the companies most exposed to Chinese tarriffs

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/06/here...reaks-out.html
Too little, too late. Trump's "trade war" is about the right idea, but nowhere near restrictive enough.

Chinese crap should be taxed at 50% of retail price (at minimum) with certain market segments taxed higher. As long as there's a trade imbalance favoring China, nothing imported from China should pass through Customs.

I would exempt raw materials, and minimally-processed (nearly-raw) materials from an import tax.

And under no circumstances should we encourage "Trade Deficit Agreements" such as NAFTA, CAFTA, Trans-Pacific Partnership, or the "new" NAFTA that's almost as bad as the old "NAFTA" with token improvements in a few areas.

Last edited by Schurkey; May 6th, 2019 at 01:10 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2019, 03:23 AM
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Or, we could do what every other nation does and set limits on the amount of market share allowed to imports.

If we don’t start look out for our own best interest the Japanese and other countries will take us over without a shot being taken. Ok, maybe that’s a little extreme, but they will definitely have their hands deep in our cookie jar. I’m by no means a Trump fan, but he does have the right idea. Instead of “fair” trade, how about “equal” trade?

Ok, I’m done with my political bitching.
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Old May 14th, 2019, 03:41 AM
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Hi,

Not sure if my shifter I got in 09 was a China one, but have had to replace the main mounting bolt as the threads wore off, replaced it with a grade 5 and also a additional nut to get it to retain.no issues yet 2 years later

Unfortunately most things are made overseas, quality is only as good as their production inspection checks, and unless it's a Mil or NAS fastener there aren't many if any checks on strength or if it is to design specs set by manufacturer.

Regards,
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Old May 14th, 2019, 04:15 AM
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In the end the consumer is responsible for a lot of this. Price is number one, availability is #2 and if it doesn't meet expectations, throw it away and buy another. When this tariff war started the first objection was "it will cost more".
Wayne
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Old May 21st, 2019, 08:56 PM
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Problem Solved !

Four USA made grade 8 bolts at Ace Hardware . $3.20 on Mastercard .
Piece of mind , priceless !


Last edited by Charlie Jones; May 21st, 2019 at 08:59 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2019, 09:09 PM
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I would be more afraid of the pivot bolt that is stressed every time the shifter changes gears. the Black round headed bolt in the last pic.
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Old May 21st, 2019, 09:10 PM
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Charlie, and a job well done !
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Old May 22nd, 2019, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by edzolz View Post
I would be more afraid of the pivot bolt that is stressed every time the shifter changes gears. the Black round headed bolt in the last pic.
That bolt IS a grade 8 .
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