New to forum
#1
New to forum
Hi everyone,
I've been looking for a hobby for a while now and one day the idea of muscle cars popped into my head. I've always liked muscle cars, but I've never _really_ been into cars. I don't know, maybe it's just how I was introduced to cars via friends and such. Anyway, after thinking about it a lot, I really liked the idea of buying a piece and fixing it up. I'm always one for a nice challenge and this sounds like a big one.
As of right now, I know pretty much nothing. I've been looking at late '60s and early '70s cars. I wanted something that you don't see every day. At first I thought of a Chevelle or a Chevelle Malibu (same thing?) - the reason being is because I currently have a 2004 Chevy Malibu Classic (or just Classic). I thought it would be cool to have the same car 30 or so years apart. But then I thought that when you think of muscle car (or when I do), you think of a Chevy or a Ford... or a Dodge I suppose. Then my wife (who is really interested in cars and happy that I'm starting to gain interest in them) suggested a 4-4-2... (is it 442 or 4-4-2 or..?)
I absolutely love the body style of the 1969 Olds 442. It's my favorite of any cars so far. And I haven't heard or seen it before that I'm aware of. I'm sure there are a lot of cars that I'm not aware of, but yea.
So now that I have a good idea of what I would like to research, here I am. I would like to learn how to do as much as possible. My first ideal project would be to find a junker and fix it up completely stock. I have a good idea that parts are very hard to come by, so I don't have a problem if replicas are the SAME parts, just newer or built with better material, etc.
Anyway, that's a little about me.. Oh! I guess I should say my name is Dustin and I'm 24... I live in Arizona which is good for cars I guess - no humidity for rust... I'm sure there are lots of other problems though!
Take it easy,
Dustin
P.S. Thanks for the admin who activated my account. It was a pita trying to figure out how to post, but I guess the persistent people are the ones who might stick around!
I've been looking for a hobby for a while now and one day the idea of muscle cars popped into my head. I've always liked muscle cars, but I've never _really_ been into cars. I don't know, maybe it's just how I was introduced to cars via friends and such. Anyway, after thinking about it a lot, I really liked the idea of buying a piece and fixing it up. I'm always one for a nice challenge and this sounds like a big one.
As of right now, I know pretty much nothing. I've been looking at late '60s and early '70s cars. I wanted something that you don't see every day. At first I thought of a Chevelle or a Chevelle Malibu (same thing?) - the reason being is because I currently have a 2004 Chevy Malibu Classic (or just Classic). I thought it would be cool to have the same car 30 or so years apart. But then I thought that when you think of muscle car (or when I do), you think of a Chevy or a Ford... or a Dodge I suppose. Then my wife (who is really interested in cars and happy that I'm starting to gain interest in them) suggested a 4-4-2... (is it 442 or 4-4-2 or..?)
I absolutely love the body style of the 1969 Olds 442. It's my favorite of any cars so far. And I haven't heard or seen it before that I'm aware of. I'm sure there are a lot of cars that I'm not aware of, but yea.
So now that I have a good idea of what I would like to research, here I am. I would like to learn how to do as much as possible. My first ideal project would be to find a junker and fix it up completely stock. I have a good idea that parts are very hard to come by, so I don't have a problem if replicas are the SAME parts, just newer or built with better material, etc.
Anyway, that's a little about me.. Oh! I guess I should say my name is Dustin and I'm 24... I live in Arizona which is good for cars I guess - no humidity for rust... I'm sure there are lots of other problems though!
Take it easy,
Dustin
P.S. Thanks for the admin who activated my account. It was a pita trying to figure out how to post, but I guess the persistent people are the ones who might stick around!
#2
Oh, after reading I wanted to clarify some things:
- I'm interested in learning how things work
- I'm interested in building things
- I'm NOT interested in illegal racing or racing for a hobby, but I want a nice, potentially fast car that's respectable
- I think I like the idea of restoring cars BETTER than.. I don't know.. going fast?
K!
Dustin
- I'm interested in learning how things work
- I'm interested in building things
- I'm NOT interested in illegal racing or racing for a hobby, but I want a nice, potentially fast car that's respectable
- I think I like the idea of restoring cars BETTER than.. I don't know.. going fast?
K!
Dustin
#6
Another 69!
Welcome to the site Dustin. I just woke up from my nap in the good ole rainy west coast and noticed that you have been talking to Jamsbo he is my senior mentor. The 69's are ok I guess, just a little slow compared to my old 57. Quiet now Jamsbo just went to sleep at his key board, happens all of the time.
This is a great site for information and you will be able to get lots of help from the 69 group. They are a great bunch of guys even though they all have swelled heads from the attention they get.
PS you don't have to call people sir just because they're old
This is a great site for information and you will be able to get lots of help from the 69 group. They are a great bunch of guys even though they all have swelled heads from the attention they get.
PS you don't have to call people sir just because they're old
#9
First loves
Good to have you with us Dustin! The oldtimers are the first to respond cause we don't have a life. You are WISE beyond your years in picking out the 69 442 as the most desirable of classic muscle cars!! There are some delusional members here who persist in there committment to alternate Oldsmobiles,but years of sniffing exhaust and having trannies fall on their noggins is likely to blame.Ask a lot of questions...read a lot of posts and threads under the "search" option,and keep coming back to learn how you too can join the 69 442 brotherhood.Very friendly advisors here...heck, they put up with me!.DEREK...69 442 POST CPE.
#11
#13
Welcome. there is a wealth of knowledge, and enthusiasm here. Also a fair number of contacts for projects and parts. Hope you find the ideal project soon. I would suggest that you look for something that is in relatively good shape for a first project though. Something that you can enjoy and drive while you are taking on small projects at first. It is easier to keep your enthusiasm up that way, as opposed to some dark dusty shadow looming in the garage for years cause it needed more work than you were ready or able to take on at the time. A reasonably straight, solid runner with faded pain and shabby upholstery would probably be a good place to start for a guy just getting into the hobby. Just my .02. Welcome and good luck.
#14
Welcome I agree a solid runner would be a good first project. That body style ran from 68 to 72. IMO 68 and 69 the parts are harder to find 71 to 72 easiest. Having had a 68 and now a 71. Real 442 be prepared to open your wallet in any condition. Post your location and take your time. You can look at a lot of junk before you find what your looking for.
Larry
Larry
#15
Welcome to CO Dustin. I hope you find your '69 soon.
csstrux
lshlsh2
#16
Woops, sorry for the wall of text... I guess I have to put in html to make spaces? Testing... Huh, looks like it... now trying html....
? HMM it works but that's weird... Oh well!
Edit:
I have Javascript disabled so it was my fault... sorry for the off-topic!
? HMM it works but that's weird... Oh well!
Edit:
I have Javascript disabled so it was my fault... sorry for the off-topic!
Last edited by cogaritis; July 24th, 2009 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Found the issue!
#17
Looks like a Glade Green [57] 69 442 w/ W 42 hood stripes, The very desirable 69 only N 30 Deluxe 3 spoke wheel, a replaced motor, [455] hard to tell from the pic but it could have an N37 tilt steering wheel,needs a little interior work and the glare on the drivers side door pannel makes it look funky. [wrong]
From where I sit, I'd say not a bad car.
BUT I would keep looking and asking owners questions. "Ya gotta kiss alot of frogs to meet a Prince."
Always take a fridge magnet and check for bonbooooooooooo in the usual places [behind both front and rear wheel wells is one of the most likely] If it's a vinyl top car check the edges for rust.
Many of these cars got sideways into non movable objects like trees, utility poles etc. And the standard fix in those days ways Bono. RUST turn any car into a money pit.
Good hunting.
From where I sit, I'd say not a bad car.
BUT I would keep looking and asking owners questions. "Ya gotta kiss alot of frogs to meet a Prince."
Always take a fridge magnet and check for bonbooooooooooo in the usual places [behind both front and rear wheel wells is one of the most likely] If it's a vinyl top car check the edges for rust.
Many of these cars got sideways into non movable objects like trees, utility poles etc. And the standard fix in those days ways Bono. RUST turn any car into a money pit.
Good hunting.
#19
They're options and they're not just N's they go from AA 01 tinted glass to Y 73 Hood paint stripe [actually Y 74 delete paint stripe option]
FYI W 30 is OAI Outside air induction and before I even thought about looking for that rare beast, I'd bone up a good deal. There are many many clones/fakes what ever you want to call them.
FYI W 30 is OAI Outside air induction and before I even thought about looking for that rare beast, I'd bone up a good deal. There are many many clones/fakes what ever you want to call them.
#20
They're options and they're not just N's they go from AA 01 tinted glass to Y 73 Hood paint stripe [actually Y 74 delete paint stripe option]
FYI W 30 is OAI Outside air induction and before I even thought about looking for that rare beast, I'd bone up a good deal. There are many many clones/fakes what ever you want to call them.
FYI W 30 is OAI Outside air induction and before I even thought about looking for that rare beast, I'd bone up a good deal. There are many many clones/fakes what ever you want to call them.
Thanks for the info once again.
And another question!
What does it mean when someone says "I have a numbers-matching car"?
D
Last edited by cogaritis; July 24th, 2009 at 02:09 PM.
#21
Then my wife (who is really interested in cars and happy that I'm starting to gain interest in them) suggested a 4-4-2... (is it 442 or 4-4-2 or..?)
#22
#23
To some it is the Holly Grail to others not. This is a source of alot of debate. Technically [it's possible] for a brand new car to have blown and engine being unloaded at the dealership, The dealer replace the engine and sell it as a new car and it would not be a matchng numbers. car.
#24
It means the engine,tranny, etc, etc all are origonal to the car and match the Vin. In the case of the Green 442 it would obviously NOT be a matching numbers car because the origional 400 that was standard in a 69 engine was replaced with a 455. [FYI Only the 69 H/O in 69 had a 455]
To some it is the Holly Grail to others not. This is a source of alot of debate. Technically [it's possible] for a brand new car to have blown and engine being unloaded at the dealership, The dealer replace the engine and sell it as a new car and it would not be a matchng numbers. car.
To some it is the Holly Grail to others not. This is a source of alot of debate. Technically [it's possible] for a brand new car to have blown and engine being unloaded at the dealership, The dealer replace the engine and sell it as a new car and it would not be a matchng numbers. car.
Pretty cool!
And I'm pretty sure that I'll never get a H/O... I love them but I know how rare they are just from reading. That's why I like yours so much! Also, the cars look a little Persian from all the gold - LOL! I still love 'em though.
#25
but I could also see the hell that one would have to go through to find one
#26
Like I said,To some it's very important to some not. I try not to slit my wrist over my cars. Everyone of them has a flaw or two.
#27
I saw an article once some years ago on this subject where they interviewed a guy who worked on the assembly line back in the 1960s who was amused by all of the attention to the minutest of details by old car buffs. He was talking about a guy who was so obsessed with his car being original that he objected to the wrong bolts holding the gas tank on or something like that. This former assembly line worker said that, back in the day, they never paid attention to things like that when they were assembling cars. If they were getting near the end of a shift and they were running low on a particular bolt, no one said, "oh, we have to stop the line until we get more of the same bolts." Any worker who shut down a line for something like that would have been fired.
They just sent someone out to the hardware store to buy a box of something that would work and used those instead. So a run of cars would come off the line with gas tank bolts that weren't like the ones on the cars that came off the line earlier in the day. But no one cared. The goal was to get the cars made, not worry about whether bolts matched. He said that other aspects of car assembly were similar.
His main point was that there is no such thing as THE original version of a car if you're talking about getting down to the smallest detail. There could be several original versions. The goal was to make and sell cars, not worry about what collectors might think 30 or 40 years later. The guy who bought a '68 442 new KNEW that his car was all original, even if the gas tank bolts didn't match, and he wouldn't even look at that, anyway. After that first purchase, GM didn't care. They weren't going to get any more money if the car was sold a second time, a third time, etc.
Just remember back to the mid-70s, when Oldsmobile ran short of engines and started putting Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles without telling anyone. It was only when they were found out and got sued that it gained wide notice. So if GM is willing to put non-Olds engines into Oldsmobiles and sell them to unsuspecting customers, how much compunction do you think they would have felt in making lesser changes to cars in the middle of a production run over the years. My guess is zero.
The line worker also said that there was no rhyme or reason as to whether or not the car's build sheet stayed with it under the rear seat or on top of the gas tank or inside one of the doors or not. Again, there was no concern that someone decades later might want to look at such a thing. It was just a matter of whether or not the sheet was left behind. If you find one with your car, great. But if you don't, it doesn't mean anything.
They just sent someone out to the hardware store to buy a box of something that would work and used those instead. So a run of cars would come off the line with gas tank bolts that weren't like the ones on the cars that came off the line earlier in the day. But no one cared. The goal was to get the cars made, not worry about whether bolts matched. He said that other aspects of car assembly were similar.
His main point was that there is no such thing as THE original version of a car if you're talking about getting down to the smallest detail. There could be several original versions. The goal was to make and sell cars, not worry about what collectors might think 30 or 40 years later. The guy who bought a '68 442 new KNEW that his car was all original, even if the gas tank bolts didn't match, and he wouldn't even look at that, anyway. After that first purchase, GM didn't care. They weren't going to get any more money if the car was sold a second time, a third time, etc.
Just remember back to the mid-70s, when Oldsmobile ran short of engines and started putting Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles without telling anyone. It was only when they were found out and got sued that it gained wide notice. So if GM is willing to put non-Olds engines into Oldsmobiles and sell them to unsuspecting customers, how much compunction do you think they would have felt in making lesser changes to cars in the middle of a production run over the years. My guess is zero.
The line worker also said that there was no rhyme or reason as to whether or not the car's build sheet stayed with it under the rear seat or on top of the gas tank or inside one of the doors or not. Again, there was no concern that someone decades later might want to look at such a thing. It was just a matter of whether or not the sheet was left behind. If you find one with your car, great. But if you don't, it doesn't mean anything.
Last edited by jaunty75; July 25th, 2009 at 01:36 PM.
#30
Little late
I thought I should welcome you to CO as well since you are a potential 69 Olds owner. I would agree with you that the 69 is a nice year for the 442 styling and to find the H/O would be more difficult. I have seen a lot of the 69 442 with the 455 instead of the 400 but it's common for guys to replace the original motor with the 442. Some even try to clone it into an H/O. If you can find one that is original to your area that would be better than say one from the east coast. Mine came from Saskatchewan(mouthfull) and it is dry there on the prairie so the frame was A-1. Something you should look for in a car first.Even if you found a 69 with the 400 it would still have lots of jump.I would worry more about what it would take to turn it into a nice ride. Suprised that you being only 24 are interested in the older muscle cars. most guys your age are into those rice rockets aren't they
#31
I believe that the 442 became a model in its own right, rather than a "Cutlass 442", in 1968 and stayed that way for '69, '70, and '71. In '72 it went back to being an option package on the Cutlass. It remained an option package in one form or other through the '70s and into the '80s. Again, I may not have all the dates right, but I do know for sure that the first 442's were in 1964.
#32
Wolfman:
Hi and thanks! Yes, most guys my age that I know of are interested in ricers. I've went through a fair amount of cars already, but now I want an American beast.
I've owned: 1983 Honda Accord, 1987 Honda Accord, 1987 Nissan 300ZX, 1994 Mitsubishi Diamante, and now my 2004 Chevy (Malibu) Classic.
Jaunty:
Thanks for the info. That helps paint a better picture for me.
Hi and thanks! Yes, most guys my age that I know of are interested in ricers. I've went through a fair amount of cars already, but now I want an American beast.
I've owned: 1983 Honda Accord, 1987 Honda Accord, 1987 Nissan 300ZX, 1994 Mitsubishi Diamante, and now my 2004 Chevy (Malibu) Classic.
Jaunty:
Thanks for the info. That helps paint a better picture for me.
#33
By the mid-sixties, the musclecar era was ramping up big time. But automatic transmission technology (as far as durability for the high HP engines) was lagging. So until '67 when the Turbo 400 came out, the 4-speed was almost mandatory in the highest of the high performance applications. This wasn't just Olds and GM, but across the board (approximately) with Ford and Chrysler. With the newer automatics being durable and that fact that nobody except Ronnie Sox could shift faster than a properly set up automatic, the automatics became respectable. But the 4-speeds still have a classic lure to them that elevate them to a desirability level unmatched by automatics for cars of that era. I have to confess that I'm big fan. "If you don't have a clutch, you don't have much". There, that should start some flames.
Please check out the Olds Wiki, it can help answer a lot of questions regarding Oldsmobiles.
http://oldsmobilewiki.com/index.php/Main_Page
#34
My wife is one such good woman too. "Back in the days" (looooong before we met), she had a '69 4-speed 442.
#35
Yes, they didn't tell the consumers at first, and there were lawsuits, but these were definitely *not* assembly line anomalies.
#36
Others will have specifics, but, in short, it depends on the year I believe. The "4" "4" and "2" have meant different things over the years, if they've meant anything at all. The 442 began in 1964 as an option package on the Cutlass that gave you 4-bbl carb, 4-speed manual transmission, dual exhaust. Hence the "4-4-2". In later years, when, I believe, a 442 could be had with an automatic transmission, one of the 4's referred to the 400 cubic-inch engine that came with it.
Changed in '65 to "400 ci V8 engine, 4 Barrel Carburetion, 2 Exhausts"
In subsequent years, Olds did not further officially define the 442 designation, so you can define it as you'd like.
#38
I've got a few extras
If you're serious, I've got a few extras. Here's one
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-69-442-a.html
You could finish it off as a 69 H/O or return it to a 69 442. Take your choice.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-69-442-a.html
You could finish it off as a 69 H/O or return it to a 69 442. Take your choice.
#39
Youv'e got 8 69-442's Can't understand why she would think that's too many and your'e willing to sell one of them.I see why your'e the resident 69-442 expert. I only see 4 listed in your sig line so I did not knowyou had 8 , I bet you got a whole lot of parts too. Where the heck do you keep all of them Is your garage bigger than your house? Maybe that's why she's jealous
#40
442 shell game
I hide them is 3 different garages and swap them around so "She who must be obeyed" stays confused.
"Is that another 69 442?"
Nah, You don't remember that one? I've had that one for years."
Actually, I'm starting to thin the heard a little. What I really want is a 69 W-30 drop top. Seen any around?
"Is that another 69 442?"
Nah, You don't remember that one? I've had that one for years."
Actually, I'm starting to thin the heard a little. What I really want is a 69 W-30 drop top. Seen any around?