I live near the airport in Euless, and I need a mechanic that KNOWS how to diagnose and fix problems on these cars.

I love my mechanic but after 4 visits and 4 months my car is still dying on me. Here's what I do know-I can't fix it, and neither can he.

I'm on the side of the road now dead in the water. Just drove it out of the shop this morning after it was there for a month.

If anyone could point me in the right direction I'd greatly appreciate it! Right now the direction I'm heading is pushing it over a cliff!

Thanks!

 

What are the symptoms?
Losing fire or fuel?
Maybe we can help.

 

It almost sounds like electronic ignition if it runs good cold and dies when hot.
Yes, did you start a thread here about it? If so, resurrect it and lets try to figure it out.

 

Need a list of things it is doing before dying. Is it chugging, sputtering, back firing, etc? it could be anything from ignition to vapor lock. The next time it dies, immediately check the carb to see if any fuel is squirting in the front barrels of the carb when you pump the gas. Also pull a spark plug wire and short it to ground when the engine is turned over, to see if it has spark. This might give you clue as to where to start diagnosing the problem.

 

Correct. I did start a thread about it. Since then, I've had the edelbrock 1406 carb overhauled. Replaced the fuel tank (rusty), and had a mechanical fuel pump installed.

I asked him a zillion times "is it the spark?" Per our last thread. He said no, it's starving for gas. I wanted to check the hei module, but insists its a fuel issue.

Honestly, I don't know what it is, and I'm not mechanically inclined enough to fix it. I'm a driver/tinkerer.

I'm just beside myself with the car. It's been a constant headache! I'm not even enjoying it anymore b/c it's in the shop more than on the road!

I'll look for the other thread

 

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...t-sputter.html

There's the link to my original problem.

The car just peters out. It died on me twice today on my 17mi trip home from work today, but it did get it home after waiting about 40 minutes in the 100 degree heat.

It's gotta be the spark right?

I have one of the glass fuel filters so I can check fuel flow. I know they're crap, but it tells me a lot, and fuel is flowing.

 

Does your dist. look like this
friggin monster?

If so change out the modulator.
Looks like this one. Very easy to change.
They can get some age on them and after they
heat up, go bad, cool off and work again.

Sounds like this may be the problem.
Good luck and let us know.

 

You might PM Aron Nance, I believe he's got a mech who's knowledgeable about our cars, but the guy is in Dallas.

 

When it dies, does it just turn off and go dead like someone turned off the ignition switch? If so, then I would run a jumper wire from the battery to the Batt+ terminal on the distributor cap and see if it will stay running. What this does is eliminate all the wiring in the ignition system and narrows it down to the distributor only. Be aware in order to turn the engine off the jumper needs to be removed.

If it still dies, and you have 2 solid streams of fuel in the carb when you pump the throttle. Then the problem is something related in the distributor.

 

When it dies it just sounds like its running out of gas. The engine will turn, but it won't start until about 40 minutes later.

Yes I have a big hei distributer. Can I change out the module w/o taking out the distributer? I know it would be easier if I did, but I can never put it back right and I have to fond TDC. Using the ole #1 cylinder trick...once again in not a mech...lol. But I do get it up and running again when I do that.

 

You can fix this, I assure you. It will take a little bit of time to troubleshoot on your part.

When it dies, take off the air cleaner. While looking down the carb operate the throttle linkage by hand to fully wide open. Do you see 2 solid streams of fuel squirting in there?

If you do, then let's run the jumper wire, to isolate the distributor and see if it will keep running.

 

Just my opinion, but I had a 1406 Carb on mine, and could never get it running right with it. As soon as I put the original carb back on... no problems at all.

But, with that said, also check your lines running to your carb from that glass filter. I once had a tiny pc of paper that got caught in the rubber line... kept starving for fuel.

 

I would check the fuel line from the tank to the engine. If it has rusted, it can cause the problems you are describing. I had a mechanic I used for years and the last two times I have used him, he was lousy. I will never use him again. Very unfortunate.

 

I'll get after this tomorrow. I have to get ahead for the long weekend at work today.

I'll have to get the car warm first. I'm weary about driving it. Watch, it won't stall out.

Anyway, I'll check the gas flow in the carb once it starts to putter out.

Question about the jumper wire: do I pull the ignition wire and wire up the jumper and start it from the positive battery terminal, or do I wire up the jumper and pull the ignition wire AFTER I start it.

I've never done this before, but it sounds easy and I think I know where to put everything. If someone has a visual link to do this that would help me!

 

I'm surprised the 1406 carb wouldn't work. It came with the car when I bought it. I thought the edelbrock carbs were pretty dependable and low maintenance?

I have been told on more than one occasion to put a qjet back on.

Hopefully that won't be necessary bc I don't want to spend the $$$ on something like that now...plus I'd have to change some gas lines. Right now hose from the fuel pump runs straight to the carb. You need steel lines for a qjet right?

 

Something else you might check is fuel pressure. A common vacuum gage is usually a fuel pressure gage too. Just hook it to the fuel line coming from the fuel pump and crank the engine. It should register around 7 lbs of pressure, if not your fuel pump may be going bad.

 

Install the jumper wire before starting it with the key. Once it starts it's just running off the battery and the key will not turn it off. What this does is isolate the ignition system to the distributor alone. So if it dies, it's either the distributor or lack of fuel. If you pump the throttle and the carb has 2 streams of fuel squirting in there, I would lean towards a distributor issue.

BTW the Edelbrock carb should run fine on your car.

 

Well, before I put in the jumper wire, I wanted to warm it up. I took the air cleaner off and was revving it manually. I didn't see ANY GAS. It sounds like an aerosol spray can web you do rev it. Ssssss, Is that right? Well it died about 5 minutes after I started it and got it warmed up...onto the jumper wire

 

Now it won't even start...turn turn turn nothing.

That is symptom. 1st start- Drives like nothing is wrong when I leave the mech. 2nd start I can maybe go 5 mi before it dies. 3rd start I'm in my garage. Runs fine until it warms up, then it dies. 4th start, I'll never get it started again.

I'm done with it!

 

After it died, and you looked down the carb and operated the throttle did you see 2 solid streams of fuel spraying in there?

 

I never saw any fuel shooting into the car while I was revving it. I heard a sssssss noise, but didn't see anything.

I poured fuel into the carb about 45 min after. Kicked over for a sec but died again

 

With the engine off, look down into the carb and move the throttle all the way open. You should see the streams spraying in there. Did you hook the jumper wire from the battery to the batt+ terminal on the distributor cap and try to restart.

 

I did the jumper wire, but it wouldn't kick, just turn and turn. It just turns now, but it doesn't kick in.

I don't see any gas shoot out even with it off. That's not right-right?

I hope it's not my carb, I just had it rebuilt! The odd thing is it was doing this exact same thing before the rebuild.

I'd just love to find a working carb, put it on and see if that's the problem.

 

Sounds like no fuel in your carb, disconnect your fuel line and put a fuel gauge on it or let it pump into a jar while someone cranks the engine. See if you get fuel out of it.

 

Well hold on!

I checked it again late last night. Engine off, pumping the carb no fuel. I turned the key and let the electric fuel pump run for a bit. Nothing, nothing , nothing, finally fuel came out. The car started, although it was a little shaky.

Fuel was shooting into the 2 front barrels. I don't know the specifics of a carb, but when does gas start shooting into the other 2 barrels?

The fuel pump is brand new.

The fuel pump shouldn't have to be on for this process right? It seems like the carb just dries up, and the rest I the system can't catch up with it. Vapor lock?

Well, back to the original post-I need a mechanic! A couple have already pm'd me, but since its a holiday weekend I'll have to wait a bit.

I just want to drive it!

 

If the carb was empty, then yes the fuel pump needs to be on. I would rule out vapor lock as the engine was cold.

Ok now we are getting somewhere, will the car stay running?

 

It'll stay on for about 7 minutes

 

I wish I lived a little closer to you and due to and unfortunate medical issue I can't get out there at the moment. I think you are very close to getting it running, but it's hard to diagnose it correctly from my couch.

I hoped possibly one of the guys that live close to you would chime in.

 

Then it won't start again. I need to check the carb flow after it gets to the point where it doesn't start again

 

When it dies again operate the throttle and see if the 2 front jets spray fuel. The rear ones do not spray. You may get rid of that glass filter and put in a plastic one.


Also disconnect the line and see if you have a good amount of fuel flow with the pump running.

 

Electric pump
mounted where?
Everything points to poor fuel delivery to the carb, or into it past the needle/ seat. Yes, the air and fuel flow thru a carb will make a hissing sound.


I had an older car a while back, the PO had "fixed" the steel fuel line where it runs up over the rear axle by using a piece of rubber hose. However, that was run between the body and frame. Body mounts were bad, so hose was pinched to shut and then a hole which leaked air in of course, and voila no pumping of gas.

"I've had the edelbrock 1406 carb overhauled. Replaced the fuel tank (rusty), and had a mechanical fuel pump installed."
=======================
If the tank was rusty then so are the lines, probably. Then again TX "rusty" is very different from MI "rusty." Huh, now I am hearing mech. and electric fuel pump, confusing. Both, or one then the other?


I will assume the sending unit was replaced along with the tank so you have new parts at least up to there. New filter sock, new steel tubing. That would leave 2 things between the fuel tank and the carb- a pump, and some lines.

What I would do then is access the tank sending unit steel line. Buy a 20 ft roll of 3/8 rubber line. Or copper tubing or whatever. Put new line all the way from tank to engine's mechanical pump. Run along the ground or whatever, it's just for a test. put 3-4 ft of line on the FP outlet to ck flow into a container. Fill the carb via the vent tube. [Or, you could use a lawn mower gas tank suspended above the carb, like... a lawn mower or tractor fuel system...] Run the engine a minute or 3 and see that the pump produces flow. Then block the hose with the pressure gage and verify proper 7psi or so pressure... If all is well with flow and pressure, then hook pump output to carb by way of exactly one filter, preferably the clear one. Start and let her run until good and warmed up. If all is well, then what you bypassed [the car's fuel lines and other pumps/ filters] was the culprit. Replace with new steel and rubber.

If still no workee, then that leaves the mech. FP, an easy replace. Or, crud blocking a filter and/or the needle/ seat such that fuel is still not getting IN the carb.

I am still wondering what the temp of the engine has to do with your fuel flow. I am suspecting that it is really a TIME base problem, and since engine temp varies with time, you are misinterpreting it as temp related because that's easy to detect. Fuel flow in a compromised system [pinhole leak in a rubber or steel line] may present such a time related problem.

One could also detach the main fore-aft fuel line at FP and tank, pressurize it with oh say 10 psi air, and spray soapy water along the entire line to find any leaks under pressure. However, the line is not pressurized when in use, it's drawing a slight vacuum.

I once had a tractor that would intermittently die. some fuel present in the sediment bowl. Finally I found that during the problem times, the FLOW thru the sediment bowl was negligible. Peeked into the tank to see a tiny pebble blocking the outlet. It would sometimes bounce off the outlet and then all was well. The moral of the story is- FLOW is more than just the visual presence of fuel...

 

HOLY S#!+

I just got home. Started it up for the first time. It died 4 minutes later. Went to oreilly and bought the fuel filter pictured above...$2.70

I blew through it and thought "Wow! This thing has flow!" Took off the glass mr gasket filter and put on the new one....the new one holds more fuel too.

Turned the key, let the fuel pump go and the thing instantly filled with fuel...started right up and it's been running with no problem for 15 minutes now.

CRAP!!!!

As I'm typing this it died. Went out to look at it the fuel filter was bone dry.


new Mechanical fuel pump is mounted in the engine bay. Gas tank, and everything in it is new. That leaves the steel fuel line that lies in between. That hasn't been changed. That has to be the culprit right? Changing that might be beyond my expertise btw.

Am I finally getting somewhere?

 

Sorry had to step out. Did the pump turn off not providing fuel?

 

I'm away from the car myself, probably for the rest of the day.

The fuel pump was still churning away. It wasn't pumping anything though

 

Check the fuel line to and from the pump, you can temporarily put the other filter in line before and/or after to see if you have fuel there. I think your getting closer.

 

Just a thought. To rule out the fuel line being clogged. I would run some fuel hose from the pump to a gas can .

 

I believe that was what I set forth above.
Sure, you can do that before installing all new line from tank to pump[s] to your receptacle, to see what you get out of what is in there now.


Turned the key, let the fuel pump go and the thing instantly filled with fuel... new Mechanical fuel pump is mounted in the engine bay. Gas tank, and everything in it is new.
===============
from that I gather that the car now has an electric and mechanical pump, in series. Most folks just use the one.



started right up and it's been running with no problem for 15 minutes now.
CRAP!!!! As I'm typing this it died. Went out to look at it the fuel filter was bone dry....
============
Still sounds TIME related to me, not HEAT related.
Do you have something like a non-vented gas cap on your nice new non-vented gas tank, therefore there is no way for air to get in to allow the fuel to be drawn out? That'd sure be an easy fix. A test run w/o any cap on the tank would tell that.


That leaves the steel fuel line that lies in between. That hasn't been changed. That has to be the culprit right?
============
Well, that plus the rubber pcs connecting the steel pcs and tank and pump.
Typically you will have
Tank
Sender
short rubber from sender to
long steel tube with many bends to ~front passenger foot area
Short rubber pc on frame rail to
Short [~2 ft] steel pc thru frame to near engine to
~1-1.5ft long pc to Mech. FP.
Steel from FP to carb, sometimes with a steel can filter in it.
sometimes instead the filter is in carb inlet fitting with 1" wrench size




Changing that might be beyond my expertise btw.
Am I finally getting somewhere?
================
Sure. Replacing the long steel tube EXACTLY as the factory routed it will require lifting the body a little off the frame- that line was on the frame before the body went on. I made that mistake once. HOWEVER, you certainly CAN carefully route your own new steel line such that it does not go between body and frame. They sell coils of steel fuel line tubing for cheap. It doesn't have to be perfect to work.

Again, you can easily verify that a new line fixes the problem by simply installing 20 ft of rubber line from tank to pump. If that works, THEN proceed with Right Stuff type new steel tube or your alternate routing or similar procedure.

http://www.getdiscbrakes.com/partfin...=Fuel&cat=1287

http://www.getdiscbrakes.com/partfin...=Fuel&cat=1287

 

Is that what we have, a mechanical and electric fuel pump in series?

 

Just a electric fuel pump located in the engine bay, no mechanical fuel pump.

I'm interested on trying it w/o the gas cap. It isn't vented, but this same exact issue was happening before the gas tank was changed out...but I am using the same cap.

I haven't ha time to run a rubber hose yet, that's why I've just been doing the ultra easy jobs.

 

Ok, good.