We all work hard all week, bring our cheque home and provide for our family's . So many of us here are very fortunate to have an awesome Oldsmobile to drive around in on the weekends.
I have always wanted more out of my weekend/holiday cruiser, however never really had a goal or budget set aside for what I would have liked given the many combinations and parts.
This is mainly to do with my lack of experience necessary to have a detailed goal set out with a budget.

I myself have purchased bolt on performance items such as, intake, carb, duals , headers in the past, put them on however lacked experience with internal performance parts it takes to make the engine all come together.

I'm I one of the few that have been down this road?

I see many engine build questions answered with .... What are you goals and budget.
I myself feel these questions are difficult to answer given my lack of experience with engines and combinations .

How many others would like more out of their weekend cruisers yet just don't no what direction to go in as to goals/budget.

I would like to hear your feed back on this, please let me know I'm not the only one out here in CO land that had a difficult time making the proper decision lol.

I feel very fortunate to have finally made a great decision working with (Don) 80rocket
C'mon don't be shy post away !!!
Cheers
Eric

 

I think of, what I would like to do, but always has to do with the money factor. I would love to have a twin turbo 455 olds in my cutlass, but way to much money, so stock 350 is fine. My last car took 10 years to restore back to like new ( not working on all the time, took 2 years off ) . I would only put 1 to 3 thousand dollars a year into car, depending on bills coming in. Money is what drives my direction on a car.

 

Some people just have the knowledge and experience to build an engine but lack the cash....some have the cash but are not mechanical so they have someone build it for them...some have a little of both and some have neither, thats life

 

Doesn't everyone at some point want to rebuild their engine? I will when it's time, but it will stay pretty close to stock. I have mechanic friends who can offer advice, or I can do the research myself, plus get input here from the tech savvy if I want. I do plan to replace the TH350 with a 200 4R though, now that I have 3.42 rear gears.

 

Hey allan, I do believe most want a rebuild at some point, I find since I've been away from the Old chebbies, I soon found out that the olds motors are so much different and require unique engine building experiences. So as a newbie to wanting Olds performance in my 76 over stock, I was very surprised as to how difficult is was to make decisions. I find most of us try bolt on stuff initially with very little gains, then come to an olds forum seeking advice. It can be overwhelming at times for us newbie's. My question is to most of us newbies as well as the others that currently drive their oldsmobile's on weekends and are contemplating what the next step would be. Perhaps this thread along with other feedback may help them. Maybe I'm the only one that has gone through this, and all others have had a build plan set out with a combo of parts and budget to see it to completion with great results .

 

I've found budgets are a good plan with old cars but sometimes hard to stick to. The unforeseen things that crop up while doing a single project can cause the cost to double to finish. You price all the big dollar items and the nickel and dimes eat your lunch. It's what makes the car hobby both interesting and sometimes frustrating. The object is to keep it enjoyable and realistic.

We have all started the same way as you are. Get a car, buy performance items and install them, while gathering knowledge and tools, and learning from our mistakes along the way.

 

I guess, I am lucky. I got paid to rebuild engines from small single cylinders to diesel 6 cylinders. I have the tools and the knowledge. But I still don't screw with things unless there is an issue!

I like original items, but that just me.

Pat

 

As a newbie, I quickly realized (after the fact) it takes alot more than an intake, carb, headers and duals to really pack a punch in an olds engine. Especially with my 76 land yaught. Just wondering how many other newbie's to the olds community are looking for gains while having the same thoughts I had initially.

 

I cant afford to have someone build an engine. I can barely afford parts. Not broke but i got my priorities and they come first. Im still learning how to build engines. I have built a few but with everyone comes a new challange a new extreme. The kind of challenges engine builders come across and that is what gives them experience. By trade im a body man but there is nothing im not willing to learn specially when its just my time and the cost isnt excessive. I learned how to rebuild differentials becasue i could not afford to have it done but i could afford the parts and had more time to spare than cash. That worked out good. I also learned to build transmissions because i didnt want to pay someone as i felt i could do it my self. To pick parts is not really that hard. I put together a few combinations that really boogied down the track real nice and darn right respectable times from such a rookie. It takes time and patience. Some guys really like to drive the cars. I love to work on it love to tinker with stuff and i never leave anything alone. Its also nice when someone ask's you who did your body work , who built your engine , who built your trans and you tell them " I did " . Not only is it for bragging rights but i don't trust anyone to touch my car . Id rather it blow up and i built it then someone else building it and it blowing up. Have i spent a lot of money over the years HELL YEAH but its 100 here 20 here etc etc . its never been 4k all at once. Trickled money is easier than one lump sum. The most i have ever paid all at once was 1400 and that was when i had rocket racing re build some heads for me.

 

Copper I hear you on the bragging rights, I was quite proud of myself after I swapped out my original intake to the performer, had to rig up the carb , added the aluminium water pump, nice blue wires etc. Geez I though man I'm going to have a killer ride that's what most of the chebbie guys were doing at the shows lol . My thanks really goes out to you guys for the rear posi and gears that was suggested to me soon after I joined the site. But hey I could be one of the very few that started an Oldsmobile off on the wrong foot lol. That was the intentions of my post to see if other newbies started out as I did. Also since I have been communicating with Don, he makes things sound much easier and not near as complicated as some feel an Olds engine build may be.

 

I hope the link works but 8 years ago thats where i was. I was learning as i went. I wasnt on any forum . I had a few local olds guys but i never really bugged them as i felt my issues where never worthy of their time.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...885c3dec522423

Then 2 years later

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...049e859cf291f4

 

This is important information for anyone giving advice on a build, but I think you may be reading too much into it. If you are wanting to build a dedicated strip car that runs 12s and have a fat wallet it's entirely different than if you have a daily driver and want to do a basic rebuild and aren't overly concerned about performance. That sets your goals. Budget is obvious - you can't spend what you don't have available.

Here's my simplistic take on Olds performance:
You need compression to make power and gearing to take advantage of it.

So, knowing that you have a mid-late 70s era vehicle with low compression and gas friendly rear gears tells you what needs to be modified for power/performance.

 

Everyone I know started out exactly like you did with bolt-on stuff. You do get some grunt from those if done right and it does feed the appetite to do more. I think only later in life with more income and more 'smarts' you learn to plan a car and build it on paper, start gathering parts and saving $.

Patience, budget and a cooperating spouse are real necessities. On the average it has taken me about 8 years to build a rod from the ground up and frame off. I set a monthly budget with the consent of the spouse and live with it. Haven't got enough for what you need this month. Wait until you do and in the meantime there are always things you can do that cost little or nothing because they're mostly labor.

When it comes to the engine I believe the most gain for the least cost is from increasing compression. If your budget limits you to less than a perfect engine...and whose doesn't when you are younger? I'd always go for compression over, for example, a more aggressive cam or the second or third carb. Freeing up exhaust to breathe out better might be the second best bang for your buck...even more so than pumping more gas down the tubes. That's the way I see it. Others may have different experiences and advice and a lot of the guys on here are smarter than me. Ideally of course we'd do it all at once. Getting a buildable core and keeping a stocker in your ride until the new engine is done is a pretty good strategy.

 

It really is that simple. The rest comes down to picking the cam which comes down to where you want the engine to make power based on use. Then it trickles from there. Compression also dictates the cam you can run. I looked at it very much like fun71 explained when I built my first perfomance olds engine. Low 13's with less than stellar components . Could have gone faster.

 

I guess i can't read between the lines if you have 80 rocket on board for advice! I think most of your trouble will work it's self out and the know how will come. You got Don in your camp others have no one!!

 

As far as performance engines, you need a goal. How much power do you want? You need a good machine shop who understands Oldsmobile engines. You have to talk to them and come up with a plan with a price. More power usually means more money. If the power your wanting is out of range at the time you can take it in steps and build is as you can afford to. The machine shop i used in Houston was great! Dennis Faerman Racing, recomended to me by another member here. They cleaned/vatted my motor, bored it, balanced it, decked the block and milled the heads. Did a valve job, and set up the springs to the cam I got from Cutlassefi, supplied new pistons, rings, bearings, gasket set, freeze plugs, oil pump, resized the rods, all for $2500. I thought this was very reasonable and affordable to me at the time. I didnt try to go for max power from my motor, it will be stout enough for me. It wont be a race car but it will be plenty fast for a street car.

 

Eric, I'm almost exactly where you are. I've been reading through car magazines since the early 90's (Hot Rod, Car Craft, etc...) and I feel I have a fair amount of knowledge but little to no practical experience....I like to say "enough to be dangerous or expensive!". I see some threads here and I try to keep up but I just don't have the experience many of these folks do.


When the time came to rebuild my '72 Rocket 350 (since it was leaking pretty much every fluid!), I brought it to a local machine shop who pulled, rebuilt and reinstalled the motor. I threw bolt-ons and extra bore at the motor with no real plan (BIG mistake!) and ended up with over $5k into a motor/trans in a car that wasn't worth $1500. Didn't plan for the extra heat now she runs too hot. That car soon fell apart around my investment and it cost me another few grand to retrieve the engine/trans and put into my "new" Olds. Still runs hot.


I say, be patient. I try to learn what I can and get my hands dirty but I've only been fiddling very infrequently for about 10 years. Expect mistakes but don't expect to know what some of these guys do. Hell, some here have been wrenching before they could drive and may now be in their 50's or 60's. Some work on cars for a living. When I work on my car, I try to include my 7 and/or 9 year old. Maybe some day they can have a mechanical confidence in their 30's I wish I had.


Good luck!

 

Eric, You are in good hands with 80 Rocket. It's always scary plunking down a big chunk of change to get an engine, trans, or rear end built. I find myself questioning my decisions sometimes after a major purchase. I always beat myself up later if something comes along that "apears" to be a better deal. You are very fortunate to have an understanding spouse that is willing to back you up along the way & share your hopes and dreams. Just remember this, when someday she may ask you to help her with her dreams. I wish my wife were understanding. She hates my car. I'm sure she would love to take a baseball bat to it. Don's talked to me about the engine he's puting together for you. We plan to run it on my running engine stand when it's ready.
I know you will be happy with the performance, Dave - The Freak

 

First thing is; What do you want to do with the car?.

Do want to just cruise to shows with your family, maybe even pull a travel trailer?, perhaps you want a weekend warrior for rwyb drag meets?.
Until you decide what your car will be used for then we can only advise you how to go about rebuilding your engine, the combination of heads, pistons, cam, manifolds, headers, carb(s) and distributor will be anyones guess.
One point to remember; everything has an effect on everything else, a wild cam won't be much use with restricting smog heads for example.

Roger.

 

I've said it many times on this board, and others. Performance isn't about the parts you bolt on ... it's about how they work together. When you look at modern cars, and how they get a kick in the seat of the pants from just a chip upgrade .... they haven't changed any parts ... just changed how they work together.

We have to do that tweaking manually. And it's not just anyone that can be successful at it. There are experts out there, and in here too. But those that know the specific tweaks for the Olds blocks are a dying breed. We need to breed a few more.

Remember, your drivetrain is a system. It all has to work together to achieve a goal. The guys at Olds were experts. They put your car together with a goal in mind. Drive-ability. They made their cars jacks of all trades as best they could. Today, cars achieve that by computer. Hell, now you've got push button settings for economy, performance, race, off-road, ride height, etc. Well, our cars only get one bite at that apple. Well, maybe two. But to achieve your goal ... you have to understand all the parts of the system.

 

@ Dave and others, Let me tell ya, I am so very fortunate to have Don working on an engine for our cutlass, He just updates me with an email stating... I picked up some roller rockers and will be installing them shortly, I will be choosing a much better torque converter for you etc. I don't have to worry about a thing !!
When asked questions in the past like, " What are your goals " I had no idea I just want to go faster off the line and burn some rubber.
As to piston choices , cams, rods, etc. Pffft that's way over my head.
Don knew my budget and stated no worries I'll hook you up with something you will enjoy.
He made decisions too easy for me lol,
Dave, Don had mentioned to me he was going to run it at your place and send me a video Put'r'ther you guys are an awesome team .
I wish all other CO members with basic engine knowledge as myself looking to rebuild, the same luck as I found with their engine.
Cheers guys
Eric

 

I think this is often a difficult question to answer for newbie's I could be wrong, however for myself anyway. Simple because at times you just want to cruise, hit some shows, take the wife and kids for ice-cream etc, then want to rip up some asphalt at times. In this case its very difficult to answer " what are your goals and budget"

 

The budget and expectations question is actually a good one. How many threads have you read where a poster says his budget is $1-2k and his goal was 500+ horsepower? It basically tries bring a newbie in line with real world scenarios.

 

Another question I would posit is where does he want to have fun? Me, I live somewhat rural, and while I like to launch off the line, I like to have some speed on top. I want to be able to run at 90 for an hour if I want to on the interstate.

 

I hear you on that one Eric, I'm sure this gets rather frustrating for engine builders.
I'm curious to hear from others that have started out their projects with bolt on stuff like myself, and are now contemplating the next steps to more performance.

I would like to hear from many other newbie's/guys and make this a fun and interesting post.
Cheers
Eric

 

To do both you have to compromise, something you need to discuss carefully with your engine guy. It's fair to say, the more radical your departure from factory stock, the more it will cost.

Roger.

 

IMO, there are three basic questions and/or criteria an individual needs to address for any restoration / build..... the first, what is your "realistic expectation" for the build.... the second, what is a "realistic budget (not your budget, but a realistic one)", for the expectation of your build... and the third, where, realistically will the funds come from...... some may question or ask about the time line, but IMO that is only relative based on the three realistic criteria for your expectations and available funds.... For what it's worth, a hobby is just that, a hobby.... set your expectations too high without the funds to support it, you're doomed for disappointment....JMO but I do think it's good advise for any newbie in the hobby.... One other thing, and MOST IMPORTANT, never use household funds for your project... that's another way to be doomed for disappointment in more ways then one................

 

There is also mission creep, you start out with wanting a rebuilt engine so its dependable,
Mission creep is also known as MAWS , so you find out that your going to need pistons, so the choices are cast or forged, shes your baby so " might as well " get forged pistons, better have them rods rebuilt maybe somevarp bolts, ah heck might as well get a set of h beam rods that already come with arps, etc etc,

This gets serious quickly, I workedbwith my machinist, he was great. He advised me what was a must, what would be good to make the motor better, and what was just a maw, or mission creep. I am one of those fossil 50+ year olds, but I wasnt confident enough to do my own engine, but I also feel like I knew what I wanted, and what parts might work, and used this info to ask the right questions to get the right advice. My build wasnt cheap but it wasnt crazy, I wanted valvetrain adjustability, my builder didnt like roller tip rockers, he said use the stock ones or harlan sharps, that required bigger studs, etc etc you see how it went. I plan to highway drive my ride so I left the 3.08s but I think thatll work good with my m20 muncievwith the lower first gear and of course a 455 500 ftlbs of torque really doesnt need a lot of help getting off the line , and knowing she,ll be all done at 5500 rpm so I think ill have a fun machine that can be driven anywhere. She wont be a 12 second car, I dont care, hopefully shell be in the low 14s and thatll be great. I believe i have 400 honest ponies and thats enough but I am also able to use pump premium ( in theory) lol. All things you need to think about.... sorry prattling along here

 

______________________________________________

X2 Cruzn 66 Comments. You gotta take care of the financial and personal relationships up front. In addition to never using household funds, I do it on a cash basis and never put any aspect of a build on credit. I also plan my builds as detailed as I can so I can budget realistically. Yes its a pain in the butt and takes several evenings along with negotiations with the "finance committee" who is the wife. It helps co-opt her as there is some degree of buy-in if she sees her ideas and estimates go into the plan. Also it helps to have a skeptic to question your assumptions about cost and timelines. Makes you defend your plan and that isn't a bad thing.

Get past that stuff and the fun part will remain the fun part and not the focus of arguments. See photo of happy spouse who bought in on a previous project.