Tonight I made Olds look bad!!! Lost 3, not 1 but 3 races, all to sbc!!!!
And to make matters worse I had to listen to all the bull:/#t talk about Olds motors!!!!

I need to dig down in the oldschool bag of tricks and find some I can afford, cause these bastards really pissed me off tonight!!! Lol

I'll b back Sunday, so does anyone have any pointersFTP help a lonely Olds guy redeem himself!!! Smh at being the only Cutlass that's Olds Powered!!! Help I'm surrounded by chevy freaks!!!! Lol

 

How 'bout telling us what motor you have!!!!

Ralph

 

1968 350 rocket with #5 heads
headers
edelbrock performer RPM intake
duels with H pipe but I have it cut a blocked off so they run straight through
holley 600 carb



I'm still running off points and I have a 350 turbo tranny with a shift kit!!!!

a9713812.jpg

 

So more or less it's stock? Probably a 9.0:1 engine and maybe 2.56 or 2.78 gears? If you're lucky 3.08?
I can tell you that Holley 1850 isn't helping you much.

What were these SBC engines in? Did they have a cam? Upgraded ignition? What gears are they running? All of this plays into "getting beat by a SBC".

Going up against a G body is already a slight disadvantage due to the weight difference. They are a few hundred pounds lighter right off the bat.

 

I have both Chevy and Olds. Cost VS ROI (Return on Investment)
You're always going to win with a Chevy in terms of HP. Sorry boys.....
The aftermarket is just sooooo much bigger and modern Gen III and IV
engines slaughter the old engines all around.

I hate my Olds faux 12 Bolt "O" axle with 2.78 gears.....gutless....
To swap out those gears for a new Olds carrier and 3.73's or whatever gears
it was....$975 USED!!!! Cracksmokers....

I got a MINT 12 Bolt Chevy with NEW Eaton posi , 3.73 Richmonds, 30 spline Speed Engineering
axles, WITH Baer 11" D+S rear disc brakes!!! ....$1,000 (No joke, it was the deal of the century)

This is my pro-touring LS1 powered Chevy Camaro Z28.
It weighs about the same as my 442 wannabe with the SBO 350 in it.

 

Makes no difference about all that. They're still bellybuttons, they're still common as dirt, and they will still always be a small block Chevy. Meaning they'll still be the most boring engine on the planet.

Interesting comment about aftermarket being sooooo much bigger. Most of us realise it took the aftermarket to develop Chevrolet engines into performers. If BOPCad had had the aftermarket R&D Chevrolet has had to have, I think you'd see a very different picture.

You can try til you die, but you will never convince me that a Chevrolet engine is superior to others.

 

Wyze. If you want to race with a stock set up, it won't work less unless your racing other guys with stock set up. If you want to beat them, no cheap fix will work.

First thing your going to have to do is change gears.

Second, build the engine. Your going need decent compression, with machine work done to the heads. Right combo of parts working togather cam, intake, and carb. You have to have the right cam for amount of compression you will have. With the right stall conv.

So if you build it right. You will do a lot better. Sorry your going to have to spend money to do it.

 

LOL....
That's cuz you're an Olds loyalist, which there's nothing wrong with.
.....and living in denial. Not to start a flame war, just for educational purposes.....

BBO 455 heads flow less then the new Small Block Chevy heads LS7 and L92 heads.
320cfm out of the box.....and inexpensive too. Junkyards got em from GM trucks galore.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ads/index.html
Remember.....it's not just about POWER.....its about EFFICIENCY as well.
Old motors are not efficient at all making power.....horrible MPG.

Lets not even try to compare a SBO to a newer Gen III or Gen IV Chevy LS motor.
Trust me, I've been TRYING to find a reason to keep my Rocket 350.....lol
Hell even Ford's new 2011 5.0 Mustang GT is ridiculous going into the 10's with some bolt on's.
This is 24 hours after they took it from the dealership with a new rear end, slicks, and a NOS shot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzwU1q4pkoo

I like Olds too. But ya gotta accept the reality of the situation.
It's cheaper to make power with Chevy......that's why everyone is putting LS1's into
Jeeps, Honda's, Miata's, etc. The list is endless. Ford's new 5.0 is sweeeet but too big.

 

No denial about it, and I'm not so much an Olds loyalist as I am a Chevrolet doubter . I like just about any interesting engine, but I have never seen much about Chevrolet engine design that's interesting. Not since the 60s Can-AM engines, at least.

And since GM has become nothing but badge engineered Chevrolets, I highly doubt I'll be buying another new GM vehicle in my lifetime! Besides, doesn't GM itself claim its new Chivverlay engines are "GM engines" ?

Say what? What can it do WITHOUT the giggle juice? though I gotta say I'm more a fan of Ford engines than I am of Chivverlay.

We can argue all day. It won't change my opinion.

Now tell us how yer brother's doing since that cop went freakazoid on him. Did y'all ever get any satisfaction from that?

 

Olds did not put you into a situation where you were not prepared to compete.

You need to pay less attention to the car next to you, and more attention to your timeslips and the useful information they contain.

And rocketraider should stop feeding the troll.

Norm

 

Yeah I'm stock, and the reason I don't wanna start coming out of pocket is because I plan on building my motor over the winter!!! I'm just trying to have some fun with my car right now!!! As far as the guys in my circle, we bet things like washing eachothers cars and stuff no cash against eachother!!!
Everybody has something different, all mostly stock like me!!!
I didn't line up with the 406, 383, LS, or LT, I ran a 86 Cutty & a 78 Malibu with 350s & a 305 in a SS Monte!!!

Today when I get off work I'm changing over to Hei and I don't know what else but illfind somethings to do!!!!!

 

Are you having a problem with it breaking up or missing? If not, save yourself the trouble, the switchover to hei will not really change much. Better off checking timing and making sure your getting 36 total degrees of advance in by 3000rpm. If your not there, this will make a difference when you get it adjusted properly.

 

Gears.

sb

 

You had a 305 beat you. You need gears bad.

 

What the hell fun is that?!? I guarantee it's not as much fun as a blown 394 Olds in an Altered coupe...

 

Like it or not boys and girls he's right. It is easier and cheaaper to get more power out of a Chevy engine. You can find anything you want for them. Now honestly look at what we can find for our engines. Stock heads that don't flow great and are typically low compression. A very limited selection of Intakes most of which we al agree aren't the best. If It isn't an Edlebrock performer or RPM most agree they aren't great. No aftermarket heads ffor the sbo. Hell there is more aftermarket support for the the GM Iron Duke. Laugh if you want but I have a version of it that makes 386hp. I can get 5-6 different aftermarket heads. So how sad is it that a much malighed engine as the Iron Duke has more aftermaket support than our engines. It does mean we should all yank our olds engines. Just that we should be honest about the situation we are all in.

 

And also realise that it's not always about how much it costs to build it either. If that were the case then none of us would have them.

 

You are absolutely right. But cost is something we all consider. Unless there people on here that are made of money that I don't know about. btW my cheap butt bought my Olds engine off Ebay for $400. I love it, just wish the power came in lower than the 3K rpm it takes now.

 

Yep it's running like crap, I had time points set & timing adjusted Fri and it ran very nice!!! Here it is Wed and it's back running like crap, everybody keep suggesting I get rid of the points!!!!

305 with an intake headers , carb & a 200 tranny was giving people the bizz all night!!!!!

 

If it's a Monte SS you are talking about don't forget about the 3.73 gears that came in it STOCK. That's where he's beating you, not on power.

I had a 2.28 geared 80 Cutlass with a STOCK 1975 Olds 350 and I took out a TPI 305 Camaro so it can be done.

 

Stick- the Iron Duke, like the SBC, had to have the aftermarket to make it work. It was an "adequate" (as Rolls Royce always said about their engines) engine for its intended use in stock form, but that was about it.

Yah, I'm glad there's aftermarket support for any of them. Just don't tell me the Chevrolet engine is superior to everything else and the answer to all engine issues, because I know it is not. It has the support from the aftermarket, and the factory itself is doing things no one ever thought possible 25 years ago. If the BOPCad engines had had that support, we would see a very different performance picture today.

 

Rocket Raider,

I won't try to change your mind. It's cool that you are Olds loyal.
I just see it this way, Chevrolet has always been in the races since they started. Not Olds.
Chevrolet has their flagship Corvette Sports Car for performance for the past half a century +
Plus they have the Camaro which is the Pony Car. Chevrolet has always been a performance oriented company.
The Pony Car wars have gone on for nearly 35 years now......skipping the 8 years Chevy took time off.

Oldsmobile never had a Sports car, or Pony car. Olds and Buick took a large car and put some power in it for a few years.
Buick had a rekindling with the Grand National in the 80's......
Oldsmobile was never a dedicated performance manufacturer. They dabbled for a few years.
Even their last days those Cutlasses weren't really performance cars, and neither was the Aurora.
That just wasn't the path GM went with Olds. Which is WHY the cars WE have are so cool. Rarity.....

Oh......BTW my brother is recovering and seeing a Chiropracter who is working miracles for him.
He had nerve damage in his neck from the baton strikes from the rogue cop that's going to jail soon.

Ya got a damn good point there.
I bought my 442 wannabe because my very first car was a 1972 Olds SX coupe.
I loved that big boat. It wasn't fast.....but it was cool.

So I've always wanted another one. I know it won't be the fastest and nimblest
car around a race track. But that's not why I bought it. I just love the body style.

Boy you Olds boys are really sensitive aren't ya ???
Can't handle the topics of discussion when comparing GM brands.
Got nothing to add to compare engines in a GOOD conversation so you start with the name calling. Typical weak mind.

ROFL.gif

 

Yawn.

Gears 1st, Torque converter 2nd.

Then get ready to spend money-weather it be chevy or Olds, it costs $$ to go fast. And once you tap into engine work- you need to go all the way and complete the thought- otherwise you will wind up leaking, broken, or running like crap- or all three.

This is again true no matter what flavor of engine you run, Ford, Chevy, Buick, Olds, or Briggs&Stratton

 

Exactly. That's all I was saying.
Be realistic about the comparison of where Olds stands VS modern performance divisions.
The new V6's are putting out over 300hp now too......and it's not just about power, it's about efficiency too.

If you want to stay 100% Olds, that's cool. But realize your limitations and costs involved.
You can go ALOT further with modern salvage Chevy motors for ALOT less and go faster and more efficient.

Anyone can make HP......and get 3mpg
But not every engine can make 400+ hp and still get 16mpg city and nearly 30mpg highway.

 

Wyze...best bang for your buck is rear end gears.

Aceshigh...great looking camaro! I have a soft spot in my heart for camaros,I've had 3

 

Gears + Custom Headers + 100's of available used turbos = WIN!!!

 

If your points are fried already you should check the coil. I've seen old and new coils out of range (voltage readings) and can cause that problem. My new napa chinesium coil was bad and actually started to burn out my points and the contacts on the distributor cap. It would run good when 1st started and would develop a miss and gradually get worse as I drove it. Put another coil in (USA made) and now it runs great.

Hope that helps.

 

I agree with the posters on here that suggest a more performance oriented rear gear choice. There is no doubt the most "bang for your buck" as far as improved acceleration is concerned is a change of rear end gear ratio. The most cost effective way for you to probably do that is to swap in a complete rear end from another G-body that already has a steeper gear in it. If you do that and just make the engine you have now run as good as it can with your current components, you will show some of your friends your what your tail lights look like the next time you race them. Just don't tell them what you've done!

As far as the "debate" about Chevy or Olds, every one has their own favorites. The fact that Oldsmobile is a brand that no longer is putting out new products sure limits an Olds fan from having the new technology that the current crop of Chevy LS motors have. My son has an 2001 Trans Am with an LS motor and we put a ProCharger supercharger on it. Then we took it to a dyno facility where they could alter the fuel curve with a laptop and it now makes 507 RWHP. He consistently wastes ZO6 Corvettes with the darn thing, and really pisses them off!

It has inspired me to build my next 455 with the "new" technology added to it. Going to use a Procharger and EFI. The bottom end is going to be fully girdled and ready to withstand some serious HP and torque. I am not going to begrudge these young guys with their new hi-tech cars...I'm going to beat them at their own game with a motor whose roots are in the 1970's. For now I will have to live with a 500 Hp BBO that sucks gas like you wouldn't believe and still uses a dinosaur called a carburetor. It still surprises many late model LS cars and Mustangs...I just listen carefully for the distinct sound of a supercharger before I decide to race them!

 

What do you mean swap out a G body rear end, I'm talking about my 68 cutlass!!!!

I got a 12 bolt with 1 wheel peel in there now, can I just put larger gears in it???

Old Skil, Im just gonna change over to hei!!!!

 

Really it's all about how good the tuner is for mapping the fuel in the computer.
If you get a great tuner, that is definitely feasible.

It's really amazing what these motors can put down on stock internals......and then daily drive them.
Can't do that with a classic engine ......without bleeding your wallet.

I've been wanting to do a Twin Turbo setup on my Camaro but man.....it is NOT cheap......

 

Sorry! I didn't pick up on the 68 Cutlass picture! You're gonna have to load that 12 bolt with a posi carrier and some better gears. At least you've got a 12 bolt to begin with, I blew up the 10 bolt in my 65 Cutlass and replaced it with a Moser Ford 9" housing for an "A" body GM car and loaded it with a 31 spline Traction-Loc and some 3.89 gears. No problems since then...

 

We went to some shop in Indiana, I can't remember the name of it. We had to install a better fuel pump in the tank as part of the supercharger installation. It had some nice headers on it when he bought it. The guy doing the tune and running the dyno said that 500 to 520 RWP was about all the "stock" LS motor would be good for. The supercharger could give you more but the bottom end would need some work to handle it. The shop was full of Camaros and Corvettes and one GTO. They were installing superchargers or turbo setups on every car there! It looked like a fun place to "work". A twin turbo set up would be sweet!

 

yeap.....500-600rwhp tops for the bottom end.
It's insane what these newer motors are capable of.....
What's cool is you can grab a scrap yard Gen IV GM Vortec with L92 heads and
be rippin up the streets for less then $4000 and 500hp AND get great MPG with an OD trans

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...l92_heads.html
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ugh/index.html


Peg leg , that's what we call it.
.....you sure it's a TRUE 12 Bolt and not a Olds "O" axle with is a fake 12 bolt ??
If it's a 12 Bolt cover, you might want to remove it to verify it.

Mine is, and that's why I'm yanking it out.
Buying just USED gears and carrier I was quoted $975 for 3.73's......
The term "Rare" is not wallet friendly.....it likes to bleed your wallet.

Instead I bought a whole new fresh Chevy 12 bolt with
a new EATON posi, Richmond 3.73's, and Strange Eng 31spline axles IIRC for $1,000
Even got the $180 T/A cover and $1100 Baer 11" disc brakes included.

 

I am not saying that it is the next best thing to sliced bread. But the fact that it has all that support makes it a better platform. Look at it this way. Someone wants to build a car. They want the best of everything they can get for their money. So an engine that has more support has more appeal because they can get more power, more options, for less money. That makes it better. If we are talking straight off the factory floor then each have their strong points and weak points. but for me I view it in a much broader sense. I guess I look at it this way. Oldsmobile people do tend to be purists as a whole. how many times will someone come on here and other Olds forums ask about carbs choices only to have the quadrajet chosen because it was good enough for Oldsmobile therefore it should be good enough for any one and the Edelbrock and Holley bad mouthed. Now rcdynamic88 has the right idea and mindset. Thinking outside the box. I plan on something similar. But there have been threads on here about supercharging and it to was poo pooed becuase it is easier to just put a 455 in rather than a supercharged sbo. Personally I think the Olds engines are ripe for boost applications due to their typical low compression.

 

Right there with ya. I am looking into the same thing for my SBO's. I have also been considering twin turbos. It's just figuring out the logistics of each and deciding which wuld be best.

 

Dealing in what "IF" instead of what "IS" can provide a million scenario's.
Yugo could have been the fastest car on the planet "IF"

We can only deal with reality of what is here and available.

 

Olds had a higher nickle content in thier blocks making them stronger and HEAVIER than the chebby. The "4 bolt main" in the chebbys is necessary for strength in the weaker casting.The weight is a major issue why the chebby is more popular to build for racing. Between the heavier metal and the larger physical size of the olds 45 degree block vs the chebby 39 degree is MUCH lighter and smaller. Lighter, smaller and you can get the same or more power--this combo will always win with equal gearing.
Now if we want to switch the conversation around and talk QUALITY--the Olds block wins hands down. Nickel is expensive.Forged cranks--they did not cut corners. The Olds engines are rock solid and will give many years of good service but they just can't compare for racing.

 

I thought the SBO Olds was lighterthan the sbc.I haveseen numbers that say so. Are they incorrect?

 

The 350 chevy is 2 inches narrower and 2 inches shorter than the olds 330. This is the comparison I was referring too.Do you have some reference showing the weights?

 

That's fine, hope it cures the poor running condition. Just make sure your getting 36 degrees of advance all in by 3000 rpm. Then I would go to getting a better rear for your car, as others have stated. (Monzaz or 507 Olds on this forum can help you with getting a rear all set up) Keep us posted.