How many Tributes out there?
April 27th, 2020, 08:15 AM
#41
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A Van Gogh is only valuable in its original condition. The Wheatfield with Crows' (painted by Van Gogh in 1890) is valued at around $35 million. Fixing & repainting the canvas painting would devaluate it and it would be viewed as a modified tribute and not the original. There's only 1 original from 1890 and it must be kept as is, otherwise it's a tribute to the original.
So thank you for using your own argument to prove yourself wrong. Mike drop. I'm out. Try the veal. I'm here all week.
Last edited by chip-powell; April 27th, 2020 at 08:39 AM.
April 27th, 2020, 01:08 PM
#42
Jeff
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I talked with one purist who said that even a numbers matching 1970 442 utilizing a base coat/clear coat is a tribute car. They stated that a true purist would use lacquer paint utilizing the same factory paint and techniques. Using a base coat/clear coat would be like modifying the drive train for more HP. It's no longer factory original & correct.
How the industry classifies a tribute car vs a restoration vs an original / survivor, as stated by Oldcutlass, are defined by rules in judging on what the terms mean.
What you and your purist buddy have, are merely opinions that are not shared by the vast majority of the industry / hobby.
April 27th, 2020, 04:56 PM
#43
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Actually that's wrong. Masterpieces are sent out to restoration specialists all of the time to be cleaned, have flaws fixed, repair tears, etc... It does not devalue them at all. In fact it maintains their value. Kinda sounds like a classic car owner, don't you think?
So thank you for using your own argument to prove yourself wrong. Mike drop. I'm out. Try the veal. I'm here all week.
So thank you for using your own argument to prove yourself wrong. Mike drop. I'm out. Try the veal. I'm here all week.
I don't agree with those purists position. To be honest, I think most purists are dorks & like the scribes & pharisees of the old. They think they are "perfect", yet inside their souls they are rotting carcasses and full of pride. Lucifer fell because of his pride. One of the greatest sins of mankind is pride. Instead of spending hours trying to recreate a "perfect" chalk line on the firewall. Try and spend some time reading your Bible before you meet your Creator.
Mic drop. Try the meatloaf. I'm not here all week.
Last edited by pettrix; April 27th, 2020 at 05:07 PM.
April 27th, 2020, 05:35 PM
#44
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That was just silly.
April 27th, 2020, 10:14 PM
#45
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I feel dumber for reading it.
April 28th, 2020, 03:50 AM
#46
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I try not to let purists rain on my parade.
I get the same “ is it a 442?” occasionally . I say “no but it has the 455 in it. “ ( as if to justify its still worthy of admiration). Usually the people asking don’t know enough about it or they could tell by looking at the car it’s not a 442. I had some 442 badges a while back but chose not to put them on because I can accept that it’s not a real 442 and just enjoy it for what it is.
April 28th, 2020, 05:56 AM
#47
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If you add air to the tires, it has to be Lansing air. 
April 28th, 2020, 12:44 PM
#48
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April 28th, 2020, 07:50 PM
#49
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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. ( Charles Caleb Colton )
Putting 442 badges on a non 442 Cutlass is just that.
Putting 442 badges on a non 442 Cutlass is just that.
April 28th, 2020, 08:43 PM
#50
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well now....
that was a lively little tete e tete LOL, back to the discussion, I bought my cutlass years ago , it was badged as a 442, and I didn't know anything about Oldsmobile I was a GTO guy, LOL.. My car is originally a cutlass s with factory 4 speed and posi rear 350 in it., its on its way to becoming a hurst olds convertible tribute there were only 3 real ones, and none were a 4 speed. I am trying to do it the right way, did get a 69 455 but I am improving everything I can 4 wheel discs, better cooling much better motor etc just like George hurst would have done when he was devaluing the original 442s the hurst olds were made from :-) , I guess I am making a tribute from a tribute LOL... sorry couldn't help myself....
April 29th, 2020, 05:07 AM
#51
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Oh no I added a line loc to my 1970 442 now it isn't a 442 even if my vin is correct. Oh no I changed my rear end to a 390. Now it is not a 442. Oh no I did a frame off and painted my frame now it isn't a real 442! Oh i forgot I changed carbs now it isn't a real 442! Okay I just drive a Oldsmobile that goes fast.😂
April 29th, 2020, 05:24 AM
#52
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that was a lively little tete e tete LOL, back to the discussion, I bought my cutlass years ago , it was badged as a 442, and I didn't know anything about Oldsmobile I was a GTO guy, LOL.. My car is originally a cutlass s with factory 4 speed and posi rear 350 in it., its on its way to becoming a hurst olds convertible tribute there were only 3 real ones, and none were a 4 speed. I am trying to do it the right way, did get a 69 455 but I am improving everything I can 4 wheel discs, better cooling much better motor etc just like George hurst would have done when he was devaluing the original 442s the hurst olds were made from :-) , I guess I am making a tribute from a tribute LOL... sorry couldn't help myself....
April 29th, 2020, 06:19 AM
#53
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I hear you
I would not try to pass it off as a 442, I thought mine was when I bought it LOL... but whatever, times have certainly changed, when I bought my 64 gto I paid 400 bucks, my 69 GTO convertible 4 speed was 600 LOL, both had zero rust , they were just old cars back then in the 70's early 80's I love the look, of the H/Os mine will retain its gold interior I think it will go better with the gold stripes etc, at the end of the day its just going to be a cool Oldsmobile
Last edited by Eddie Hansen; April 29th, 2020 at 10:05 AM.
April 29th, 2020, 06:51 AM
#54
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[QUOTE=wr1970;1245258]Oh no I added a line loc to my 1970 442 now it isn't a 442 even if my vin is correct. Oh no I changed my rear end to a 390. Now it is not a 442. Oh no I did a frame off and painted my frame now it isn't a real 442! Oh i forgot I changed carbs now it isn't a real 442! Okay I just drive a Oldsmobile that goes fast.😂[/QUOTE
Not true!! Adding the above items makes your car a 442 tribute......lol
Not true!! Adding the above items makes your car a 442 tribute......lol
April 29th, 2020, 09:12 AM
#55
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My car is originally a cutlass s with factory 4 speed and posi rear 350 in it., its on its way to becoming a hurst olds convertible tribute there were only 3 real ones, and none were a 4 speed. I am trying to do it the right way, did get a 69 455 but I am improving everything I can 4 wheel discs, better cooling much better motor etc ... I guess I am making a tribute from a tribute
Which leads to my second point: your car is a pretty desirable model as it sits. You don't see many 4-speed convertible Cutlii out there any more, possibly because most of them have been made into phony Hursts and bogus 4-4-2s.
It's your car, of course. Whatever you do, have fun.
April 29th, 2020, 10:03 AM
#56
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First thing, with the extensive modifications you describe, the car won't be a tribute or a clone but more of a restomod. The point of a tribute is to try to replicate a more desirable existing model, not to create a model that never existed.
Which leads to my second point: your car is a pretty desirable model as it sits. You don't see many 4-speed convertible Cutlii out there any more, possibly because most of them have been made into phony Hursts and bogus 4-4-2s.
It's your car, of course. Whatever you do, have fun.
Which leads to my second point: your car is a pretty desirable model as it sits. You don't see many 4-speed convertible Cutlii out there any more, possibly because most of them have been made into phony Hursts and bogus 4-4-2s.
It's your car, of course. Whatever you do, have fun.
April 30th, 2020, 10:55 AM
#57
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Yikes!
According to that purist, yes. Anytime you modify the vehicle, whether appearance or powertrain, it is no longer original and modified, therefore a tribute to the factory original car.
So whether paint runs, crooked stripes, imperfections on the firewall, all of that must be kept like it was from the factory for it to be an original car. Otherwise it's a modified tribute car according that that purist.
I agree it's whacky but one can say he is the purists purist. A Van Gogh is only valuable in its original condition. The Wheatfield with Crows' (painted by Van Gogh in 1890) is valued at around $35 million. Fixing & repainting the canvas painting would devaluate it and it would be viewed as a modified tribute and not the original. There's only 1 original from 1890 and it must be kept as is, otherwise it's a tribute to the original.
So whether paint runs, crooked stripes, imperfections on the firewall, all of that must be kept like it was from the factory for it to be an original car. Otherwise it's a modified tribute car according that that purist.
I agree it's whacky but one can say he is the purists purist. A Van Gogh is only valuable in its original condition. The Wheatfield with Crows' (painted by Van Gogh in 1890) is valued at around $35 million. Fixing & repainting the canvas painting would devaluate it and it would be viewed as a modified tribute and not the original. There's only 1 original from 1890 and it must be kept as is, otherwise it's a tribute to the original.
Tribute (noun) ...something intended to show gratitude, respect, or admiration
So when a 1970 442 is restored and repainted using a base coat/clear coat paint. Is that making something like the paint, that it was not? No 70 Olds came with base coat/clear coat. In essence, one is making something (the paint), something it was not. Taking a 1970 442 and restoring it would be a tribute. After restoration, one is paying homage to the original vehicle, or giving a tribute/gratitude/admiration to the original vehicle.
If one was a true purist, they would use lacquer paint when restoring a vehicle. I talked with one purist who said that even a numbers matching 1970 442 utilizing a base coat/clear coat is a tribute car. They stated that a true purist would use lacquer paint utilizing the same factory paint and techniques. Using a base coat/clear coat would be like modifying the drive train for more HP. It's no longer factory original & correct.
So when a 1970 442 is restored and repainted using a base coat/clear coat paint. Is that making something like the paint, that it was not? No 70 Olds came with base coat/clear coat. In essence, one is making something (the paint), something it was not. Taking a 1970 442 and restoring it would be a tribute. After restoration, one is paying homage to the original vehicle, or giving a tribute/gratitude/admiration to the original vehicle.
If one was a true purist, they would use lacquer paint when restoring a vehicle. I talked with one purist who said that even a numbers matching 1970 442 utilizing a base coat/clear coat is a tribute car. They stated that a true purist would use lacquer paint utilizing the same factory paint and techniques. Using a base coat/clear coat would be like modifying the drive train for more HP. It's no longer factory original & correct.
There are very few "original" vehicles out there that are still drivable. Most of the true 442's & H/O's have been restored. Some restorations try and keep it as original as possible but most have been modified with modern parts to make them faster and more reliable. In addition, even with the purists, the restoration they use the new base coat/clear coat paint, not the factory lacquer paint process. No doubt that base/clear coat is a better paint than lacquer but the factory in 1970 never used a base coat/clear coat process.
So to me a "tribute" is basically a restored vehicle in both performance and appearance. Most people want their vehicle to "look" the part and the 442's had the better appearance package to them. The Ram-Air hood, the stripes, the emblems, etc all add to the better appearance. So all restored vehicles are "tributes" in my view.
So to me a "tribute" is basically a restored vehicle in both performance and appearance. Most people want their vehicle to "look" the part and the 442's had the better appearance package to them. The Ram-Air hood, the stripes, the emblems, etc all add to the better appearance. So all restored vehicles are "tributes" in my view.
It is of course an opinion and yours may differ.
Once a person restores a vehicle and puts on modern parts and paint, then it is no longer "original" but a modified vehicle and a tribute to the original car built 70 years ago. Even with a "numbers matching" engine and trans. Once they are taken apart, rebuilt with new bearings, pistons, gaskets, etc., it is NO longer original but a restored and modified engine and trans. It is a tribute to the original but no longer original.
When one is attempting to restore a vehicle back to the way it came from the factory over 70 years ago. It is just that, an attempt but an effort in futility as one can never recreate the original vehicle. It's impossible. Only an original vehicle that has never been repainted, changed or modified in any way is original. Once changed, it becomes restored and modified and is a tribute to the original vehicle which it once was and no longer is.
Once a person restores a vehicle and puts on modern parts and paint, then it is no longer "original" but a modified vehicle and a tribute to the original car built 70 years ago. Even with a "numbers matching" engine and trans. Once they are taken apart, rebuilt with new bearings, pistons, gaskets, etc., it is NO longer original but a restored and modified engine and trans. It is a tribute to the original but no longer original.
When one is attempting to restore a vehicle back to the way it came from the factory over 70 years ago. It is just that, an attempt but an effort in futility as one can never recreate the original vehicle. It's impossible. Only an original vehicle that has never been repainted, changed or modified in any way is original. Once changed, it becomes restored and modified and is a tribute to the original vehicle which it once was and no longer is.
You misconstrued my analogy. A correct analogy would be like taking a Van Gogh and stripping the painting down to a bare canvass, and then repainting it. That's what I was stating. Cleaning it, doing a minor repair, is not a complete strip down and repaint.
I don't agree with those purists position. To be honest, I think most purists are dorks & like the scribes & pharisees of the old. They think they are "perfect", yet inside their souls they are rotting carcasses and full of pride. Lucifer fell because of his pride. One of the greatest sins of mankind is pride. Instead of spending hours trying to recreate a "perfect" chalk line on the firewall. Try and spend some time reading your Bible before you meet your Creator.
Mic drop. Try the meatloaf. I'm not here all week.
I don't agree with those purists position. To be honest, I think most purists are dorks & like the scribes & pharisees of the old. They think they are "perfect", yet inside their souls they are rotting carcasses and full of pride. Lucifer fell because of his pride. One of the greatest sins of mankind is pride. Instead of spending hours trying to recreate a "perfect" chalk line on the firewall. Try and spend some time reading your Bible before you meet your Creator.
Mic drop. Try the meatloaf. I'm not here all week.
And to the original poster's initial question, if you want to re-badge the car, that's your prerogative. It gets a bit sketchy when you start to mislead others by telling someone it's something that it is not.
Last edited by WTHIRTY1; April 30th, 2020 at 11:02 AM.
April 30th, 2020, 11:20 AM
#58
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When I was 13 GT350's were just coming out, I loved them and had posters on my wall. As the years went by I knew I could never afford one. In 2007 I purchased a Mustang GT, did the whole suspension, shifter, etc. and put 12" white stripes on my Blue paint and got the GT350 side stripes and amazingly enough I got a plate that said "THEPONY" . I loved it and it made my heart swell every time I looked at it. I can't tell you how many people, including Porsche owners gave me the Hi-5. So many guys told me how much they loved them and the memories of a car they wished they had. They knew it wasn't real but still enjoyed see it. Tribute or not I believe it made the world a better place. OK, I know thats a bit much. I love my Cutlass S, but the thought of seeing the #442 on the sides gives me a thrill. And no I would never try to sell it as the real thing. Still contemplating. But the initial post was about how many real ones out there vs. the "Tributes." 50% of the 442s we see aren't the factory 442?
Steve
Steve
April 30th, 2020, 02:06 PM
#59
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My advice is to petition the United States Supreme Court. Hopefully the Supreme Court will grant the petition. Both parties will be required to file briefs, present oral arguments and the United States Supreme Court will ultimately decide the case.
If the United States Supreme Court grants the petition, expect the case to be decided earliest June 2023.
If the United States Supreme Court grants the petition, expect the case to be decided earliest June 2023.
April 30th, 2020, 03:03 PM
#60
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Yes, and then appealed , no doubt, haha. Oh Boy, owners do what you want and be honest when it comes time to sell. Pity on those who spent the extra bucks for a 442 and didn't really get one.
Steve
Steve
April 30th, 2020, 03:13 PM
#61
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I'm just hoping he stays gone this time. He comes back monthly, starts **** then goes away again.
April 30th, 2020, 03:54 PM
#62
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May 1st, 2020, 07:55 AM
#63
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Like a seagull.... flies in, ***** all over everything, and then flies away.
I had an industrial engineering manager at one of our Mexican plants that referred to our segment boss as a seagull. The above was his explanation. Would fly down from MI to the plant, tell everyone what was wrong, then fly back to MI without offering any ideas or assistance.
I had an industrial engineering manager at one of our Mexican plants that referred to our segment boss as a seagull. The above was his explanation. Would fly down from MI to the plant, tell everyone what was wrong, then fly back to MI without offering any ideas or assistance.
May 1st, 2020, 01:22 PM
#64
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Hi all,
I am currently working on a 65 Cutlass and installing a 455, 200r4. Doubt I would try to pass it off as a 442, but it would have a 4 barrel, 4 speed and dual exhaust.
I am sure when its on the road or at a local show people will call it one, and that's fine, at least people get to see a car that was made back when style was the driving force vs aerodynamics.
I believe its fine to do what you want with your car, only issue would be falsely claiming it to a future buyer.
I am sure there is more than 1 rebodied 442 that started to life as a rotted 442 and Cutlass/F85 shell and as long as that knowledge was shared to any potential buyers it would be fine.
Not sure if any of the above would be considered a tribute or clone, but personally glad someone saved one from obscurity.
Best Regards,
I am currently working on a 65 Cutlass and installing a 455, 200r4. Doubt I would try to pass it off as a 442, but it would have a 4 barrel, 4 speed and dual exhaust.
I am sure when its on the road or at a local show people will call it one, and that's fine, at least people get to see a car that was made back when style was the driving force vs aerodynamics.
I believe its fine to do what you want with your car, only issue would be falsely claiming it to a future buyer.
I am sure there is more than 1 rebodied 442 that started to life as a rotted 442 and Cutlass/F85 shell and as long as that knowledge was shared to any potential buyers it would be fine.
Not sure if any of the above would be considered a tribute or clone, but personally glad someone saved one from obscurity.
Best Regards,
May 23rd, 2020, 03:12 PM
#65
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I have a 1971 442 Tribute.
When I bought it, the owner was honest and it was reflected in the price. Could not afford a real 442.
Now I am selling my 1971 442 Tribute. I am completely honest about the car. Probably too honest! Ha!
When people ask, I am honest that it is a tribute. No point lying. Accomplishes nothing. People who know the fine details like those of you on this forum will probably know quite quickly that this car is not the real deal. But it looks sharp, great ride, sounds bad, and I like it. Gets lots of looks!
If you bought it, you would like it too!
When I bought it, the owner was honest and it was reflected in the price. Could not afford a real 442.
Now I am selling my 1971 442 Tribute. I am completely honest about the car. Probably too honest! Ha!
When people ask, I am honest that it is a tribute. No point lying. Accomplishes nothing. People who know the fine details like those of you on this forum will probably know quite quickly that this car is not the real deal. But it looks sharp, great ride, sounds bad, and I like it. Gets lots of looks!
If you bought it, you would like it too!
May 23rd, 2020, 03:57 PM
#66
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Hmmm.. sooo, to the radical purist it must be a complete original car, if resprayed then with laquer..but then you have the unrestored, never altered car, then you have a correct engine, trans car but you changed the color to what YOU prefer, then you got the color changed car with a modern cam shaft, tires and upgraded electrical... this **** could go on forever. I like original engine, trans, rear end etc cars..Why, because I just do, it in my mind is the essence of what was..But every car I ever owned has been altered to some degree. So truly, just be honest about the car, talk about your love of your car, what you have done, how it runs..some people turn there nose up at tributes unless it is virtually indistinguishable then they are impressed.weird isn’t it..I am working on my 66 442, its getting a restored correct tri carb on it..I like that, its different, its cool. Would I have preferred to find a true L69 car? Hell yea, but my budget wasn’t as excited about it as I was. So while its a true 442, ( very important to me) its not an L69 because it wasn’t ordered that way..its everything an L69 was, no power brakes, ordered no power steering( has it now) 4 speed, no air, reveal moldings on the doors. So yea, it was ordered as a bones car.. a damn perfect car to replicate an L69..but I will not try to sell it as one, and ya know to be 100% honest, I may even bullshit someone at a car show and tell them it is.. who knows, its about having fun, creating your dream, enjoying it and at the end of the day just be honest and proud of it. How boring it would be if every car was concourse original..
May 23rd, 2020, 05:25 PM
#67
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Tribute is a bullshit term; it's a euphemism for clone, fake, or 'rebadged vehicle.' At its root is dishonesty simply to present something you don't have. It doesn't matter if "you'll be honest when you sell it;" it is a rolling fraud, and everyone that sees '442' on a car that is not is duped. There are people who enjoy fooling people; google 'duper's delight' sometime.
442 emblems and trim add no horsepower. Putting a better engine in a Cutlass and making it faster than a 442 is something different and fine. Putting some 442 trim on as a custom job is also fine. Making a car which is not a premium model look like one with intent to deceive is not.
442 emblems and trim add no horsepower. Putting a better engine in a Cutlass and making it faster than a 442 is something different and fine. Putting some 442 trim on as a custom job is also fine. Making a car which is not a premium model look like one with intent to deceive is not.
May 23rd, 2020, 06:13 PM
#68
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Unfortunately I was too young when Led Zeppelin played the Spectrum in Philadelphia on March 31, 1970. But a few years ago I saw Jason Bonham‘s Led Zeppelin experience, a tribute band, and their concert list of classic Led Zeppelin songs was performed flawlessly.
It felt like Jasons father John was banging the drums behind Jimmy P and JP Jones. And it almost looked and sounded like Robert Plant was fronting this fabulous foursome.
But it was a tribute band, it was not Led Zeppelin. It was clearly labeled and advertised as a tribute band, and we all knew it was a tribute band, sure it had some Led Zeppelin pedigree - but it was not Led Zeppelin.
But it was the next best thing - short of a 1970 Led Zeppelin show in Philly.
No one can buy tickets to see Led Zeppelin anymore, and we can’t go into Oldsmobile dealers and buy 1970-1972 442s. Yes there are 344’s out there for those able to afford them, but there’s nothing wrong with a great tribute band, or a great fully disclosed tribute 442.
Switching badges, parts, tags, etc, in an effort to deceive - is a totally different story.
It felt like Jasons father John was banging the drums behind Jimmy P and JP Jones. And it almost looked and sounded like Robert Plant was fronting this fabulous foursome.
But it was a tribute band, it was not Led Zeppelin. It was clearly labeled and advertised as a tribute band, and we all knew it was a tribute band, sure it had some Led Zeppelin pedigree - but it was not Led Zeppelin.
But it was the next best thing - short of a 1970 Led Zeppelin show in Philly.
No one can buy tickets to see Led Zeppelin anymore, and we can’t go into Oldsmobile dealers and buy 1970-1972 442s. Yes there are 344’s out there for those able to afford them, but there’s nothing wrong with a great tribute band, or a great fully disclosed tribute 442.
Switching badges, parts, tags, etc, in an effort to deceive - is a totally different story.
Last edited by vCode442; May 24th, 2020 at 07:24 AM.
May 23rd, 2020, 06:30 PM
#69
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Tribute is a bullshit term; it's a euphemism for clone, fake, or 'rebadged vehicle.' At its root is dishonesty simply to present something you don't have. It doesn't matter if "you'll be honest when you sell it;" it is a rolling fraud, and everyone that sees '442' on a car that is not is duped. There are people who enjoy fooling people; google 'duper's delight' sometime.
442 emblems and trim add no horsepower. Putting a better engine in a Cutlass and making it faster than a 442 is something different and fine. Putting some 442 trim on as a custom job is also fine. Making a car which is not a premium model look like one with intent to deceive is not.
442 emblems and trim add no horsepower. Putting a better engine in a Cutlass and making it faster than a 442 is something different and fine. Putting some 442 trim on as a custom job is also fine. Making a car which is not a premium model look like one with intent to deceive is not.
May 24th, 2020, 05:23 AM
#70
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This sure is a passionate exercise in motion. I kind of agree with Koda on this term of "tribute." The term was coined by "tributers" to whitewash the terms "clone" and "fake". I guess it sounds more palatable. I believe it has a lot to do with intent with what you would want to do with putting 442 parts/emblems on a Cutlass. For the most part, I would venture to say 99% of what we consider "Oldsmobile-experienced" crowd know and understand what a 442 is should they go to seek out and purchase such a vehicle. The tribute cars would be outed almost immediately, even if the seller was trying to pass it off as genuine. If you want to put 442 emblems on your Cutlass, be my guest. I got bigger fish to fry. Just present it as fake, and everyone stays happy. I'd be able to figure it out if I went to buy your car, because I'm not worried. I'd do the research.
A 71 Cutlass looks good with W-31 stripes on it, but they didn't have a W-31 for 71, so making a "tribute" 71 W-31 would apply? Probably not. I would prefer a "One of none" description for cars like that. Terms don't really matter to me as long as you're happy with your car. I look at things a bit differently. I enjoy a clean "Cutlass S" just as much as a clean "442". Except there's hardly any 72 Cutlass S cars anymore, and a 400% spike in 72 442s...hmmm.
I very much disagree that once you change the oil on you new car that it's now a "tribute". That's just talking out of your *** IMO. No connection to reality. EVERY car is a "tribute" by the time it reaches the customer. Most deliveries got a "free" full tank of gas from the local gas station or on-site gas pump with purchase. Even the purists I know don't consider oil changes or putting in new gas in the tank or refilling the washer fluid tank a deviation from a survivor car being "all original". Sure, a car is only original once, but a tribute is different in most people's minds. Whether it's accepted or not is in the eye of the beholder.
By a certain member's standards, you can't even call yourself a purist because unless you buy it and stick it in a hole and let it rust like that old 57 Plymouth they buried in Oklahoma, there's no classic car on earth that would qualify. I think they drove it there, stuck it in the hole, with all the original parts. I believe they did drain the fluids, but not sure. But since they didn't put any back if they did, it was still not a "tribute". That's just fuggin' absurd. "Extremist Purists" might be a term?
A 71 Cutlass looks good with W-31 stripes on it, but they didn't have a W-31 for 71, so making a "tribute" 71 W-31 would apply? Probably not. I would prefer a "One of none" description for cars like that. Terms don't really matter to me as long as you're happy with your car. I look at things a bit differently. I enjoy a clean "Cutlass S" just as much as a clean "442". Except there's hardly any 72 Cutlass S cars anymore, and a 400% spike in 72 442s...hmmm.
I very much disagree that once you change the oil on you new car that it's now a "tribute". That's just talking out of your *** IMO. No connection to reality. EVERY car is a "tribute" by the time it reaches the customer. Most deliveries got a "free" full tank of gas from the local gas station or on-site gas pump with purchase. Even the purists I know don't consider oil changes or putting in new gas in the tank or refilling the washer fluid tank a deviation from a survivor car being "all original". Sure, a car is only original once, but a tribute is different in most people's minds. Whether it's accepted or not is in the eye of the beholder.
By a certain member's standards, you can't even call yourself a purist because unless you buy it and stick it in a hole and let it rust like that old 57 Plymouth they buried in Oklahoma, there's no classic car on earth that would qualify. I think they drove it there, stuck it in the hole, with all the original parts. I believe they did drain the fluids, but not sure. But since they didn't put any back if they did, it was still not a "tribute". That's just fuggin' absurd. "Extremist Purists" might be a term?
May 24th, 2020, 07:05 AM
#71
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 2,095
This sure is a passionate exercise in motion. I kind of agree with Koda on this term of "tribute." The term was coined by "tributers" to whitewash the terms "clone" and "fake". I guess it sounds more palatable. I believe it has a lot to do with intent with what you would want to do with putting 442 parts/emblems on a Cutlass. For the most part, I would venture to say 99% of what we consider "Oldsmobile-experienced" crowd know and understand what a 442 is should they go to seek out and purchase such a vehicle. The tribute cars would be outed almost immediately, even if the seller was trying to pass it off as genuine. If you want to put 442 emblems on your Cutlass, be my guest. I got bigger fish to fry. Just present it as fake, and everyone stays happy. I'd be able to figure it out if I went to buy your car, because I'm not worried. I'd do the research.
A 71 Cutlass looks good with W-31 stripes on it, but they didn't have a W-31 for 71, so making a "tribute" 71 W-31 would apply? Probably not. I would prefer a "One of none" description for cars like that. Terms don't really matter to me as long as you're happy with your car. I look at things a bit differently. I enjoy a clean "Cutlass S" just as much as a clean "442". Except there's hardly any 72 Cutlass S cars anymore, and a 400% spike in 72 442s...hmmm.
I very much disagree that once you change the oil on you new car that it's now a "tribute". That's just talking out of your *** IMO. No connection to reality. EVERY car is a "tribute" by the time it reaches the customer. Most deliveries got a "free" full tank of gas from the local gas station or on-site gas pump with purchase. Even the purists I know don't consider oil changes or putting in new gas in the tank or refilling the washer fluid tank a deviation from a survivor car being "all original". Sure, a car is only original once, but a tribute is different in most people's minds. Whether it's accepted or not is in the eye of the beholder.
By a certain member's standards, you can't even call yourself a purist because unless you buy it and stick it in a hole and let it rust like that old 57 Plymouth they buried in Oklahoma, there's no classic car on earth that would qualify. I think they drove it there, stuck it in the hole, with all the original parts. I believe they did drain the fluids, but not sure. But since they didn't put any back if they did, it was still not a "tribute". That's just fuggin' absurd. "Extremist Purists" might be a term?
A 71 Cutlass looks good with W-31 stripes on it, but they didn't have a W-31 for 71, so making a "tribute" 71 W-31 would apply? Probably not. I would prefer a "One of none" description for cars like that. Terms don't really matter to me as long as you're happy with your car. I look at things a bit differently. I enjoy a clean "Cutlass S" just as much as a clean "442". Except there's hardly any 72 Cutlass S cars anymore, and a 400% spike in 72 442s...hmmm.
I very much disagree that once you change the oil on you new car that it's now a "tribute". That's just talking out of your *** IMO. No connection to reality. EVERY car is a "tribute" by the time it reaches the customer. Most deliveries got a "free" full tank of gas from the local gas station or on-site gas pump with purchase. Even the purists I know don't consider oil changes or putting in new gas in the tank or refilling the washer fluid tank a deviation from a survivor car being "all original". Sure, a car is only original once, but a tribute is different in most people's minds. Whether it's accepted or not is in the eye of the beholder.
By a certain member's standards, you can't even call yourself a purist because unless you buy it and stick it in a hole and let it rust like that old 57 Plymouth they buried in Oklahoma, there's no classic car on earth that would qualify. I think they drove it there, stuck it in the hole, with all the original parts. I believe they did drain the fluids, but not sure. But since they didn't put any back if they did, it was still not a "tribute". That's just fuggin' absurd. "Extremist Purists" might be a term?
May 24th, 2020, 07:20 AM
#72
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 891
Please stop overcomplicating this issue. A 344 car is a 442. A 342 car is a Cutlass. Just that simple.
Last edited by twilightblue28A; May 24th, 2020 at 07:26 AM.
May 24th, 2020, 07:36 AM
#73
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 891
Yesterday, I asked Rams442 whether or not his car listed for sale was born a 344 car (442) made to look like a W30 442 OR if the car was a 342 (Cutlass).
Rams442 responded with an honest answer. Rams car is a 342 (Cutlass).
He answered honestly; the car is a 342 (Cutlass) made to look like a W30 442.
Period. End.
Rams442 responded with an honest answer. Rams car is a 342 (Cutlass).
He answered honestly; the car is a 342 (Cutlass) made to look like a W30 442.
Period. End.
May 24th, 2020, 07:37 AM
#74
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 891
You're either pregnant or you're not pregnant. You either have a 344 (442) or a 342 (Cutlass).
May 24th, 2020, 07:39 AM
#75
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 891
We may need Oldcutlass involved in this conversation and soon........
Last edited by twilightblue28A; May 24th, 2020 at 07:45 AM.
May 24th, 2020, 07:44 AM
#76
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 891
We may need Oldcutlass involved in this conversation and soon........
May 24th, 2020, 08:07 AM
#77
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 891
Unfortunately I was too young when Led Zeppelin played the Spectrum in Philadelphia on March 31, 1970. But a few years ago I saw Jason Bonham‘s Led Zeppelin experience, a tribute band, and their concert list of classic Led Zeppelin songs was performed flawlessly.
It felt like Jasons father John was banging the drums behind Jimmy P and JP Jones. And it almost looked and sounded like Robert Plant was fronting this fabulous foursome.
But it was a tribute band, it was not Led Zeppelin. It was clearly labeled and advertised as a tribute band, and we all knew it was a tribute band, sure it had some Led Zeppelin pedigree - but it was not Led Zeppelin.
But it was the next best thing - short of a 1970 Led Zeppelin show in Philly.
No one can buy tickets to see Led Zeppelin anymore, and we can’t go into Oldsmobile dealers and buy 1970-1972 442s. Yes there are 344’s out there for those able to afford them, but there’s nothing wrong with a great tribute band, or a great fully disclosed tribute 442.
Switching badges, parts, tags, etc, in an effort to deceive - is a totally different story.
It felt like Jasons father John was banging the drums behind Jimmy P and JP Jones. And it almost looked and sounded like Robert Plant was fronting this fabulous foursome.
But it was a tribute band, it was not Led Zeppelin. It was clearly labeled and advertised as a tribute band, and we all knew it was a tribute band, sure it had some Led Zeppelin pedigree - but it was not Led Zeppelin.
But it was the next best thing - short of a 1970 Led Zeppelin show in Philly.
No one can buy tickets to see Led Zeppelin anymore, and we can’t go into Oldsmobile dealers and buy 1970-1972 442s. Yes there are 344’s out there for those able to afford them, but there’s nothing wrong with a great tribute band, or a great fully disclosed tribute 442.
Switching badges, parts, tags, etc, in an effort to deceive - is a totally different story.
1972vCode442,
Good thing you were too young to see Led Zeppelin, Grateful Dead, the Stones or the WHO at the Spectrum in Philly.
Your brain would be a tribute of the brain with which you were born....lols...
Stay safe.
Last edited by twilightblue28A; May 24th, 2020 at 08:10 AM.
May 24th, 2020, 09:24 AM
#78
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Asheville NC
Posts: 1,160
Isn't that the Truth, Who would I have been if I hadn't been introduced to alternate states of Being. Unfortunately I did pass out at a few of those concerts back then.
Steve
Steve
May 24th, 2020, 09:50 AM
#79
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 2,095
May 24th, 2020, 10:14 AM
#80
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Rowlett, TX
Posts: 467
My '76 Cutlass Salon is an original car...'cept the engine has been "tweaked" + headers + EFI. She has new paint with original color code. After market wheels, back up camera, etc.
My '70 Nova SS (Documented) is much the same.
So, in the eyes of the experts here, am I a liar when I take these cars for a spin?
My '70 Nova SS (Documented) is much the same.
So, in the eyes of the experts here, am I a liar when I take these cars for a spin?
