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Oldcutlass i disagree with your findings of todays youth. Guys in the thirtys do like the older car.My son is in that age group he had a 1972 nova with a big block chevy he raced it. When his job required him to relocate he sold it. He also had a 95 chevy low rider bagged that he sold. He needed a more relyable car to come home to see his mom and i because he lived over three hundred miles away. My grandson is hoping i will let him drive one of my race cars when he is old enough. He is 14 now and i am going to groom him. He has worked on one of my cars with me .
Location: I moved to pittsburgh so I can be near Primantis
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by 88 Cutty Classic
WE ARE HERE but we arent the demographic you are thinking... we are from about 27-45. We know a lot about these cars too but not because we lived through those era but because we grew up in the information age and seeked it out on the internet. I think that intimidates some of the older folks. I have had guys that dont wanna hear what i gotta say and thats fine but I do look for the older folks that were around that can pass on some of that first hand knowlege. things like stories. I'm lucky to have a mechanic father who was in his early 20s during the golden years of the muscle car era. he was a mopar guy and i know a lot about them because of it. When i was a kid thou, he was driving oldsmobiles and thats where I got a love for them.
agreed. I am slightly older than the age range above (ok, 7 years older) and while I have the same car loving defective gene my dad had, I would be this way anyways due to who he was (if any of you are in your 70's, and from the pitt area to about 100 miles outward and had any type of muscle car, especially pontiacs, you knew my dad or at least talked to him)
I do recall, in the late 70's, with the gas crunch(es) and the insurance regs and the new emission *****, the older cars - and not just muscle cars - were held in low to no esteem. remember how I once said my first 6 cars were olds? I spent a sum of $985 for the first 4, legal, drivable, registerable cars. (from late 83-early 85) so even in todays dollars that is still far cheaper for a 10+ year old car than my deville I just got which is 13 years old and cost more than most houses from the 70's era...
I saw it once written that there are more chevelle ss396's on the road today than gm built due to all the cloning. that may or maynot be true but when a company puts out an ad 'baseball hotdogs, apple pie and chevrolet' its not hard to see why the chevy crowd has greater numbers. I belong to a brand agnostic cruising club up here and every member goes to at least 1 carlisle show and half the members go to show off and ask a wish list price for the car. if spring and fall can bring them in, gm has the equal chance but the timing is wrong for summer shows....
( to be honest the stereo market is the same....all you old timers tossed out your silver face pioneers as soon as the first 100w surround digital whatever whizbang came out. as a result, I can sell a restored one on craigslist for more than it originally retailed for.)
well i can't speak for local chapters and stuff but for the national event would be different activities, maybe a BBQ instead of a sitdown dinner, maybe a cannonball run/checkpoint type event instead of a tour of some old landmark.
let me think...well my local chapter is always at local cruise nights passing out flyers to other oldsmobile owners. social media is a good way to reach the younger folks. and when i say younger i dont mean kids outta college.. i mean people my age, in their 30s. I will say a problem with my age group is people are staring families. Maybe make the big events more family friendly. I did see families at nats but i mostly saw people who were retired.
i think the modified crowd shys away from the clubs a lot because the originality sticklers can get under peoples skin. dont get me wrong, i dont wanna some chevy powered cutlass but if it gets bodies there, so be it. Lowriders and Big rim guys, forget it... they get stereotyped from the gate. I'm in the G-Body crowd, there are a lot of us. our cars need to be on the stage to get a lot of us involved. the A-bodys have had more than their share. im not trying to make it an uS vs them kinda thing, i'm just trying to brainstorm what can be done.
come on guy, its 2017... this north vs south stuff is lame. i'm one of them evil yankees I guess. What it sounds like is you either met the wrong group of people or the problem lies somewhere else. I talked to people from all over the united states when i was at nationals this year and the only cold shoulder i got was from some of the people selling items (none of the major vendors). After I won my Best of Class i had all kinda of people coming up to me to congratulate me. People WILL talk and be courteous if you are receptive to them.
WE ARE HERE but we arent the demographic you are thinking... we are from about 27-45. We know a lot about these cars too but not because we lived through those era but because we grew up in the information age and seeked it out on the internet. I think that intimidates some of the older folks. I have had guys that dont wanna hear what i gotta say and thats fine but I do look for the older folks that were around that can pass on some of that first hand knowlege. things like stories. I'm lucky to have a mechanic father who was in his early 20s during the golden years of the muscle car era. he was a mopar guy and i know a lot about them because of it. When i was a kid thou, he was driving oldsmobiles and thats where I got a love for them.
i dont see why kids now would be into cars. cars all look the same now and most of them are ugly. They has also been indoctrinated by public schooling about the environment. they think a prius is cool cause it saves the planet. parents let their kids grow up to fast and act like adults when they are 10. turning 16 and getting a license isnt the big deal it used to be when you have cell phones in first grade and kids are banging when they are 12. The only way todays kids are gonna be into cars is if my generation, the one who has small kids, gets involved more.
Thanks for taking the time to put these thoughts down. I agree that the welcome dinner at this year's Nationals was like the Early Bird Special at Golden Corral. I had already paid for it so I stopped in, got a drink, and left immediately. The CO dinner that had been set up was a lot more fun.
The 2010 Nationals did have a BBQ and I enjoyed that event.
I'd love to see a driving style event at Nationals. The problem is that someone needs to set it up, coordinate it, and run it. Our chapter runs a very simple All-GM show every year, and I can attest to how much work it is just to put that on. Something ALWAYS screws up at the last minute, requiring a lot of running around to correct it, and inevitably participants will bitch about something. In today's litigious society, insurance for a driving event is likely one of the biggest problems. Yes, I know others pull this off. I don't know if they have adequate insurance or just blow it off and take the risk. All it takes is one joker and a civilian who's car gets scratched to turn into a legal and PR nightmare. I don't like it, but it's reality.
88cutty classic It is not north vs south. The facts are this when i went to the oca event. We talk to five guy's that we told them where we were from and we wanted to look at cool oldsmobiles. See what kind of parts that were available at the swap meet area. That we brought a all olds drag car to go racing. The next thing that happened they turned away after we talked about going racing.THAT is why i will not go north period.OCA guys are what my buddy said they were rude up north. I have been to oklahoma and guys there were friendly. As a matter of fact my nephew says if i ever go to Tulsa for racing or car shows again let him know he wants to go. I have never been to Texas for racing or car shows but it is on the burner. I have been to okc Street Rod nats at least 8 times and had a great time every time.
I've not been to anything OCA. I may go at some point. Most of what I have heard is negative. I have heard that people are unfriendly, want gold for parts, and the judging at the show is overly critical. I have heard that low budget / in progress projects are criticized, as is anything but concourse restoration. No cruising or racing, and it's a badge of honor to "know" more than someone else, so knowledge is hoarded and not shared.
That's just what I have heard, so there's no need to jump on me, as I am not personally endorsing this information as correct.
That's just what I have heard, so there's no need to jump on me, as I am not personally endorsing this information as correct.
By repeating it, you really are endorsing it.
Judging is and SHOULD be critical, at least in the stock classes. This isn't and shouldn't be t-ball where everyone gets a participation trophy to prop up your self esteem.
The whole point of these classes is preservation of original cars. My experience with OCA judging has been the opposite - judges don't really have the information necessary to know what is correct and what isn't, and incorrect cars often get higher scores than they should. My classic example is the best of class 1968 "W-30" at Seven Springs with the W36 stripes and fender emblems in the wrong place.
My experience - from actually attending several OCA Nationals - has been that people are friendly and happy to talk if you ask them. Yes, prices in the swap meet are high, but this is the case for any marque specific swap meet where both sellers and buyers know how rare parts are and what they're worth. Ever gone to Chryslers at Carlisle? Same thing - you won't find any bargains, but you WILL find very rare items for sale that you can't find anywhere else. This is Econ 101, supply and demand.
Can the club do a better job? Certainly. I'd love to see different events at Nationals, but as I said, this requires someone to step up and volunteer to put that event together. Feel free.
2016 was my first Nationals since late 80's when it was in Columbus, Ohio. I enjoyed myself, didn't have a car there though. My plan is to make Gettysburg in 2018. I also know I will not be able to participate in the stock class, as I am making a few modifications. That's Ok though. There were a few race car there.
Overall,the reasons for the initial purpose of this thread I believe is:
1) Chevrolet got the performance budget, and continues to do so. As such, got a majority of the aftermarket interest.
2) The Chebby crowd is more open to modifications due to number 1.
88cutty classic It is not north vs south. The facts are this when i went to the oca event. We talk to five guy's that we told them where we were from and we wanted to look at cool oldsmobiles. See what kind of parts that were available at the swap meet area. That we brought a all olds drag car to go racing. The next thing that happened they turned away after we talked about going racing.THAT is why i will not go north period.OCA guys are what my buddy said they were rude up north. I have been to oklahoma and guys there were friendly. As a matter of fact my nephew says if i ever go to Tulsa for racing or car shows again let him know he wants to go. I have never been to Texas for racing or car shows but it is on the burner. I have been to okc Street Rod nats at least 8 times and had a great time every time.
again, its sounds more like a personal problem. someone didnt wanna talk about racing and you're all bent out of shape? talk to someone else. the oldspower nationals is in the north...that would seem to suit your olds tastes.
I had a great conversation with the Hurst olds owner in senior preservation. it started about his car and ended up with him telling me stories of how he and his buddy from michigan would drive to pittsburgh to see these twin sisters.. Any event is only gonna be as good as YOU make it. if you wanna paint a whole club or region of the country with a broad brush...well hey, its probably best of you just stay local then.
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
By repeating it, you really are endorsing it.
Judging is and SHOULD be critical, at least in the stock classes. This isn't and shouldn't be t-ball where everyone gets a participation trophy to prop up your self esteem.
The whole point of these classes is preservation of original cars. My experience with OCA judging has been the opposite - judges don't really have the information necessary to know what is correct and what isn't, and incorrect cars often get higher scores than they should. My classic example is the best of class 1968 "W-30" at Seven Springs with the W36 stripes and fender emblems in the wrong place.
exactly, and it meant more to me this year that one of the really knowledgeable members of the HOCA judged my class this year. I felt validated that i got a BOC with him as the judge.
now its funny you brought up seven springs because that was my former home chapter and the judge for 12c didnt know squat except that he used to have an 84 supreme. i certainly shouldnt have won but the car that ultimately did win BOC shouldnt have won. i've shown twice at that chapters fall show and came in second and third because the same 85 supreme with virtually no miles keeps winning. to me thats stupid. The OCA has a system for that not to happen. why would anyone go to a judged show where the same car wins every year.
at this point in the game the OCA should have a manual that someone who knows nothing about a specific model could follow and accurately judge a class.
Judging is and SHOULD be critical, at least in the stock classes. This isn't and shouldn't be t-ball where everyone gets a participation trophy to prop up your self esteem.
The whole point of these classes is preservation of original cars. My experience with OCA judging has been the opposite - judges don't really have the information necessary to know what is correct and what isn't, and incorrect cars often get higher scores than they should. My classic example is the best of class 1968 "W-30" at Seven Springs with the W36 stripes and fender emblems in the wrong place.
My experience - from actually attending several OCA Nationals - has been that people are friendly and happy to talk if you ask them. Yes, prices in the swap meet are high, but this is the case for any marque specific swap meet where both sellers and buyers know how rare parts are and what they're worth. Ever gone to Chryslers at Carlisle? Same thing - you won't find any bargains, but you WILL find very rare items for sale that you can't find anywhere else. This is Econ 101, supply and demand.
Can the club do a better job? Certainly. I'd love to see different events at Nationals, but as I said, this requires someone to step up and volunteer to put that event together. Feel free.
Nope, I am not endorsing it. Think of it as data I have not personally vetted, but are someone else's numbers that I have.
I agree on the judging. You'll note I said overly critical, not critical. Critical is "hey, you have the wrong hose clamps, minus a couple points." Overly critical is "how dare you have the wrong hose clamps; score of zero on engine compartment."
Prices have peaked in muscle car parts, the supply has diminished to a few of each rare part left, but the demand is dropping as old guys are too old to take on new projects. I predict, in the next ten years, that there will be 50 primo Olds parts stashes selling for pennies on the dollars as the widows will be past the window of demand for these and selling them for what they can get. I understand market demand, and fair price. I do not understand trying to take someone when it's such a small hobby that you will surely see them again someday (after they found out how bad you screwed them.) It's advanced Economics to understand the idea of keeping prices low in a hobby that you enjoy puts EVERYONE ahead. People either don't get it, or they're in it for the money, which is a shame.
I've got no allegiance to OCA, so I won't be running events for them. The classic response of a volunteer group to criticism is "you can join and do better if you think you can" and that's precisely the sentiment I was referring to above. I'm just the messenger here, saying what I've heard. Hands up, don't shoot.
You can you read 88 cutty classic Or comprehend what i am saying or what. We didn't have a chance to tell about the other cars we had. We made a small statement about racing. Like my buddy who has his high school car a 1972 442. That car has nice interior very nice show winning paint job. He has won trophys at car shows with it. Went to one of Joe Mondello's National events and won a large trophy racing. A street driven 442 that he drove to work every day for years before he had all the body work done. He put in new interior then a new paint job. He also has a 1972 w30. I didn't get a chance to even talk what i owned. We brought my buddy's 65 F85 to race. I talked him into not racing the high school car ever again after the win in 99 at Mondello's National event. How about 5 someones! They were not standing all there at the same time. We were just looking at cars trying to make conversation.My bad you are a OCA member and that is why you are discounting what happened to us.
Last edited by wr1970; January 7th, 2017 at 12:45 PM.
On the subject of attracting people. I have found as far as the OCA Nationals are concerned, not many outside the hobby are aware of it. The vendors basically sell to the same guys year after year. Unless a buyer comes back with a new project, he presumably will need less than the previous year. If it was promoted locally in advance of the show it would bring in more buyers, not aware of the show otherwise. It would also enlighten and motivate locals, with Oldsmobile's to the OCA and give them incentive to get involve I believe. I have talk to guys who have stumbled onto the OCA Nationals and were thrilled that it existed.
Nope, I am not endorsing it. Think of it as data I have not personally vetted, but are someone else's numbers that I have.
I agree on the judging. You'll note I said overly critical, not critical. Critical is "hey, you have the wrong hose clamps, minus a couple points." Overly critical is "how dare you have the wrong hose clamps; score of zero on engine compartment."
Prices have peaked in muscle car parts, the supply has diminished to a few of each rare part left, but the demand is dropping as old guys are too old to take on new projects. I predict, in the next ten years, that there will be 50 primo Olds parts stashes selling for pennies on the dollars as the widows will be past the window of demand for these and selling them for what they can get. I understand market demand, and fair price. I do not understand trying to take someone when it's such a small hobby that you will surely see them again someday (after they found out how bad you screwed them.) It's advanced Economics to understand the idea of keeping prices low in a hobby that you enjoy puts EVERYONE ahead. People either don't get it, or they're in it for the money, which is a shame.
I've got no allegiance to OCA, so I won't be running events for them. The classic response of a volunteer group to criticism is "you can join and do better if you think you can" and that's precisely the sentiment I was referring to above. I'm just the messenger here, saying what I've heard. Hands up, don't shoot.
i've never once heard someone take that overly critical response. Thats probably the most absurd thing i will read all day.
i believe the opposite of your prediction. gone are the days of the little old clueless widows. these women know what they have because their husbands told them. whether they choose to sell cheaply is on them but give these women a little credit.
i agree though that people should keep prices low in the good will of things. i see guy always worried about their car's value... why? you trying to retire on a car sale? thats a stupid way to invest money? I want the gbodys to stay low, i dont wanna price myself out of my own car.
Originally Posted by wr1970
You can you read 88 cutty classic Or comprehend what i am saying or what. We didn't have a chance to tell about the other cars we had. We made a small statement about racing. Like my buddy who has his high school car a 1972 442. That car has nice interior very nice show winning paint job. He has won trophys at car shows with it. Went to one of Joe Mondello's National events and won a large trophy racing. A street driven 442 that he drove to work every day for years before he had all the body work done. He put in new interior then a new paint job. He also has a 1972 w30. I didn't get a chance to even talk what i owned. We brought my buddy's 65 F85 to race. I talked him into not racing the high school car ever again after the win in 99 at Mondello's National event. How about 5 someones! They were not standing all there at the same time. We were just looking at cars trying to make conversation.My bad you are a OCA member and that is why you are discounting what happened to us.
Yes I am a member of the OCA but I'm not defending them out of loyalty, they aren't putting any money in my pockets, i'm defending the notion that your encounter isnt indicitive of the OCA or memebers from the north. in fact i was critical of them several times in this thread saying they need to do more. i've only ever been to 3 national OCA events, 2003, 2009 and 2016. So get it out of your head that i'm some OCA fan boy. IF you talked to 5 seperate people and found all of them to be rude....... i think that says more about you or your perception of things.
Im 49 and am happy when I see younger guys into American cars. A body, G body, whatever. At least its not a Honda. Hondas are dependable and can be fast but its bot my thing. My ears are always open when younger people speak or ask advice so when I see them with vintage American cars, it gives me hope. Just like when I attended a Rock show last month I saw kids in their 20's enjoying good American hard Rock I was pleasantly surprised.
Nope, I am not endorsing it. Think of it as data I have not personally vetted, but are someone else's numbers that I have.
Sorry, but that's like sending out a tweet about GM building cars in Mexico without having all the info.
NOTE: this is an attempt at HUMOR, not an opening to turn this into a political thread!
I agree on the judging. You'll note I said overly critical, not critical. Critical is "hey, you have the wrong hose clamps, minus a couple points." Overly critical is "how dare you have the wrong hose clamps; score of zero on engine compartment."
That's not how OCA judging works. There are prescribed deductions for specific incorrect items. The judging team is 3-5 people, and they discuss the issue before taking a deduction. The problem remains, however, that there still aren't written judging guidelines for each specific model. Of course, this is a BIG job to compile and vet this info. AACA, for example, requires the car owner to provide documentation of obscure equipment if there is a disagreement on correctness.
Now, to my knowledge MoPar has had only a couple of Hurst collaborations where Olds has had TEN, fourteen if you count the 76-77 proposals, the 88 Aero/Hurst kit and the 76 Royale Crown Landau.
Maybe they figured the Hurst/Olds crowd would be more likely to attend that than an event held as part of the Chevy Nationals...
88 cutty classic it is not my notion.It is not my personal problem as you suggest and you are attacking me for telling what happened to my buddy.Dude i already said i didn't get a chance to say a word to any of those OCA guys.It was my buddy doing the talking and i was just there.How is this turned into me having a problem when five guys who were members acted that way to him. It was my buddy who said they were rude to him. I didn't disagree with him because i seen it happen. I talked to a vendor and he seemed nice enough.I also talk to two representatives from Joe Mondello company and they were very nice. Then i talked to two guys for about two minutes before the cloud burst at the race track. It is obvious to me you have a beef with me or why would you say the things you have already said. When i explained that those 5 OCA guys were rude. That any club would treat new people from out of state who drove the miles that were driven just to see there car show event. To me that speaks a lot. Yes my friend invited my for the trip. That is why i said i will never go north again to any OCA event and i doubt my friend will.Done with this and what you think.
Last edited by wr1970; January 8th, 2017 at 05:48 PM.
Now, to my knowledge MoPar has had only a couple of Hurst collaborations where Olds has had TEN, fourteen if you count the 76-77 proposals, the 88 Aero/Hurst kit and the 76 Royale Crown Landau.
Maybe they figured the Hurst/Olds crowd would be more likely to attend that than an event held as part of the Chevy Nationals...
In their defense, the do enumerate the H/O first...
"All makes and models of cars produced by Hurst are welcome and encouraged to attend. Whether you own a Hurst/Olds, SC/Rambler, a GSS Dart or any other Hurst-prepared vehicle, this is a can't-miss show! Hurst has a long and illustrious history of producing some truly amazing performance cars, so why not have a show dedicated to all of them?"
This does sound reasonable, and not biased toward any particular make.
The seem to be running it at the same time as the Chrysler event, but in a different location, in an indoor center across the street.
"All makes and models of cars produced by Hurst are welcome and encouraged to attend. Whether you own a Hurst/Olds, SC/Rambler, a GSS Dart or any other Hurst-prepared vehicle, this is a can't-miss show! Hurst has a long and illustrious history of producing some truly amazing performance cars, so why not have a show dedicated to all of them?"
This does sound reasonable, and not biased toward any particular make.
The seem to be running it at the same time as the Chrysler event, but in a different location, in an indoor center across the street.
- Eric
I also don't see an issue with this, an all Hurst show would be cool. An all Chrysler show would also be interesting to see.
Where were you guys in 2007 when i went to indy? They had drag racing and a car show. They had a swap meet. At a all olds national. If you have a Olds event they will come. Except they didn't. I sure as hell will not go to a chevy event. The problems is no support for the brands that GM did away with. I went to a OCA event in springfeild i think 2013. What a bunch of un friendly guys. The drag racing event was way out in the boonies. Met a couple guys didn't get a name as just as we got there cloud burst in epic porportions.
Originally Posted by wr1970
60 cars what a joke. Now hundred cruise car nights is cool. We have a yearly car show that has maybe 4 oldsmobiles and 300 car on a bad year has been 400/450. When will Oldsmobile guys u night and support a real national event and not way up north? You guy afraid to bring your stuff south a little or what. Get some vendors get a huge cars show. Have a damn parade. Have some drag racing. Have a huge swapmeet. Invite Pontiac guys, buick guys, Cads, No damn chevys cars. Get with car clubs to promote it. Set a date where it isn't in extreme heat.Can someone can find some fair grounds close to a drag strip or large parking lot that can hold ten thousand cars. Make this a national event with a cruise night and a day cruise event as well.Do a charity event to get as much support as you can. All this would cut down on boredom and bring in new blood. Maybe set up a stage for comedy. Just my thoughts.
Originally Posted by wr1970
I will never go north again to a OCA event period. Like i said not a good bunch of guys to hang with. Then to drive 35 miles to get to a drag strip in between two corn fields. Face it as long as you guys travel down the road to not include the rejected brands of GM in your shows our brand will never get the support. Dream on dreamers.
Originally Posted by wr1970
I said i never going to a North OCA events that to hard to understand. Not a very friendly bunch of guys. As a matter of fact my buddy thought they was rude.I will go south just not north. I was talking a whole different type event. If you have more brands then you get more exposure. Excude the chevy's invite AMC guys. What does it hurt to have a different event with better entertainment more choices more people. You might generate more interest. How is the present model working?
Originally Posted by wr1970
88cutty classic It is not north vs south. The facts are this when i went to the oca event. We talk to five guy's that we told them where we were from and we wanted to look at cool oldsmobiles. See what kind of parts that were available at the swap meet area. That we brought a all olds drag car to go racing. The next thing that happened they turned away after we talked about going racing.THAT is why i will not go north period.OCA guys are what my buddy said they were rude up north. I have been to oklahoma and guys there were friendly. As a matter of fact my nephew says if i ever go to Tulsa for racing or car shows again let him know he wants to go. I have never been to Texas for racing or car shows but it is on the burner. I have been to okc Street Rod nats at least 8 times and had a great time every time.
Originally Posted by wr1970
You can you read 88 cutty classic Or comprehend what i am saying or what. We didn't have a chance to tell about the other cars we had. We made a small statement about racing. Like my buddy who has his high school car a 1972 442. That car has nice interior very nice show winning paint job. He has won trophys at car shows with it. Went to one of Joe Mondello's National events and won a large trophy racing. A street driven 442 that he drove to work every day for years before he had all the body work done. He put in new interior then a new paint job. He also has a 1972 w30. I didn't get a chance to even talk what i owned. We brought my buddy's 65 F85 to race. I talked him into not racing the high school car ever again after the win in 99 at Mondello's National event. How about 5 someones! They were not standing all there at the same time. We were just looking at cars trying to make conversation.My bad you are a OCA member and that is why you are discounting what happened to us.
Originally Posted by wr1970
88 cutty classic it is not my notion.It is not my personal problem as you suggest and you are attacking me for telling what happened to my buddy.Dude i already said i didn't get a chance to say a word to any of those OCA guys.It was my buddy doing the talking and i was just there.How is this turned into me having a problem when five guys who were members acted that way to him. It was my buddy who said they were rude to him. I didn't disagree with him because i seen it happen. I talked to a vendor and he seemed nice enough.I also talk to two representatives from Joe Mondello company and they were very nice. Then i talked to two guys for about two minutes before the cloud burst at the race track. It is obvious to me you have a beef with me or why would you say the things you have already said. When i explained that those 5 OCA guys were rude. That any club would treat new people from out of state who drove the miles that were driven just to see there car show event. To me that speaks a lot. Yes my friend invited my for the trip. That is why i said i will never go north again to any OCA event and i doubt my friend will.Done with this and what you think.
the only thing i can gather is that you have some chip on your sholder about being from the "south" even thou you are from the midwest and went to an event in the midwest. Springfield, IL is not the North and Kansas is not the south. your explanation evolved each time you explained it so how am i supposed to know what version, if any, is what really happened? I dont know if they were OCA officials, local chapter members running the event or just 5 participants in the show. Hell, sometimes you dont even know the people there are just spectators. these events are open to the public!
there is no point of having an OLDS national event with pontiacs or buicks or whatever else when they all have their own national events by themselves as well.. the RACING events can be conjoined with other makes which Dick miller did do this year. I've been to the GS Nationals which is Buicks version of the OCA. They have their racing and event at the same place every year and it works but its at the same place every year. The OCA moves around which i think is good. sometimes they have racing, sometimes they dont. The OCA had a joint event this year with the H/OCA and that worked well. The H/OCA has had joint events with Dick Miller's OLDS powered event before.
Many dragstrips across the US are out in the boonies between cornfields. Norwalk is pretty much that way and its a pretty major track! would you prefer they have events next to the tracks in the middle of a cornfield with no hotels near by?
If you want a huge event go to the woodward dream cruise, but maybe thats too far north for you.
Now, to my knowledge MoPar has had only a couple of Hurst collaborations where Olds has had TEN, fourteen if you count the 76-77 proposals, the 88 Aero/Hurst kit and the 76 Royale Crown Landau.
Maybe they figured the Hurst/Olds crowd would be more likely to attend that than an event held as part of the Chevy Nationals...
pretty poor planning by the people at carlisle considering the H/OCA event is the weekend before if they were planning on the Hurst olds people to show up. With that said I'll probably be more likey to go to carlisle since is closer for me personally and i have no desire to be anywhere close to the city of chicago (HOCA nats are in st charles IL this year) Kinda poor planning on the HOCAs part too thou. July 6th-9th is right up against the Fourth of july. People usually have a lot of other things going on around that time. If you are niche club like that you would want it to be a time thats gonna get the most people there. late july seems to work best for these event. seeing as the hoca and oca events arent anywhere close i dont think having them the same weekend would have conflicted too many people that were actually going to attend. Dick Miller's event seems to be steady the 2nd to last weekend of july every year which the OCA seems to conflict with ....every year. thats a problem of the OCA because they arent as open to modified cars. being stuck on the 50s models and 60s and 70s intermediates could be the ultimate demise of the club.
88 cutty classic Have not only the facts screwed up. You have tried to say in everyone of your post that the things that transpired are somehow me with a problem. You have no clue what north south or what ever is. Wichita Kansas is mid america. Springfield without any doubt is north of Wichita and east. I wasn't talking about any bop event. I wasn't even suggesting The event to be called a olds national event. I was talking about a different event with different brands beside the norm.Bop do not have cads nor AMC. Get over yourself and quit bashing me for posting a opinion on what happened to my friend and leaving me with a dislike to attend any more OCA events north of my state period.I have been south to other car events not all racing and was never treated that way. I also think you have been rude to suggest in every post what you have post about me. To the mod i am done with this thread and This 88 cutty classics antics.
Springfield, IL is not the North and Kansas is not the south.
Actually, Illinois, a state since 1818, is the North, and was part of the Union, and Kansas, which was admitted to the Union during the Civil War, was the site of a bloody war between pro- and anti-slavery Americans in the 1850s, which has always left it as "North, but with an asterisk," sort of like West Virginia, which broke away from Virginia in order to join the Union, or Kentucky, which maintained a separate Confederate legislature during the war, even though it was nominally a Union state, or Maryland, which was a slave state, but occupied by the Union, and which was not subject to the Emancipation Proclamation.
illinois, Mo, iowa, nebraska, and so on and so forth are considered the mid west. i've never once heard anyone say IL was a northern statew whether its north of where you are or not. AND if it was OCA guys that were rude, the host city is irelevant. those "rude" OCA people would be wherever the show is. cry to the mod because you wont see the BROAD BRUSH YOU PAINTED over and over with this " well i wont go to no shows up north and blah blah blah" I'm not suggesting anything but the way you have portrayed yourself, a "southerner" with a chip on his shoulder about the north.
i know my geography. Wikipedia's definition of the Midwest " the Census Bureau's definition consists of 12 states in the north central United States: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin."
Ah.... now we are getting into some interesting discussion. One of the main reasons West Virginia split from Va was that they felt that the eastern section of the state didn't represent them very well this was going on well before the Civil war, but it was an opportune time to spit. Now if WV had split prior to the war, the question becomes which side would Stonewall Jackson pledge his allegiance too as he was from "western" va.
Maryland was "occupied " by the Union largely because of the B&O, which originally wanted to come lower into Va, but The Va legislature wanted their own RR to the Midwest and would not allow the B&O to come that far in the state.
I know that this is pedantic, but you cannot argue that, in the context of the Civil War, and of those who are still fighting it, Illinois is not the North.
Illinois was a Northern state for forty years before the Civil War. They entered the Union in 1818, and slavery was outlawed in their state constitution the same year. Abraham Lincoln himself was an Illinois state representative for four terms, during which he made several anti-slavery speeches, and was then elected twice to the US House of Representatives as an Illinois Congressman.
Illinois contributed the fourth largest number of Union troops of any state, and was a major center for supplying food and other materials.
Illinois also served as a refuge for hundreds of thousands of black Americans fleeing violence in the South during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and was a place where they were able to find good factory jobs (some building Oldsmobiles) and raise their families as members of the middle class (the same as people fleeing poverty and life in the coal mines in the Appalachian Mountains did).
When someone from the South calls Illinois the North, they know what they're talking about. Just as Georgia felt the wrath of Sherman, Confederate states and supporters near the Mississippi, including not only Tennessee, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi, but also Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas, felt the wrath of Illinois.
So getting back on topic, this is my suggestion to end how we Olds owners feel about the new Chevy Nationals. I'll bring this to Carlisle. Who's with me?
Probably could go straight there: 84 —> 81 —> 78, but that wouldn't save much time, and I'd lose a place to rest.
- Eric
Google maps begs to differ. Plus, if you are driving directly to Carlisle, you take 287 to 78 to 81. I just did the drive from NoVa to Worcester using this route in Oct.
Well, I'm surprised. It comes in at a bit under 8 hours when I check it.
I KNOW it takes six hours to get to anywhere in NYC or NJ from here, and back when we used to go to Carlisle every year (back before there were vendor spaces inside the track), I recall it took about four hours from NY, so that should add up to ten.
Still, it's a bit far, and I'm pretty sure that the ol' man more or less permanently passed our spaces along to another gentleman we used to see every year, so I won't be there right away.
Funny, two guys arguing about who's rude and where they're from...passively inciting rage in each other's hearts...being rude to one another. Irony.
I'm planning on going to the Good Guys event in Austin this year. I'm 36. Perfectly restored Oldsmobiles sitting in a parking lot bore me. I like to drive my car. Hell, I'm going to beat the crap out of it at Good Guys. And when it breaks I won't be looking for over priced NOS or rare parts at a swap meet. I'm going to call X manufacturer and get the latest and greatest X that I can find to replace the stock (which is hard to find on my already modified car) part with something better. Performance is what interests the younger crowd, not judges scores and geriatric dining experiences.
I don't see near the bickering that I see on CO over on pro-touring.com. I do see alot of enthusiasm for my Cutlass. Truth be told the only brand resentment I see comes from this side of the pond.
January 7th, 2017, 07:03 AM
In today's litigious society, insurance for a driving event is likely one of the biggest problems. Yes, I know others pull this off. I don't know if they have adequate insurance or just blow it off and take the risk. All it takes is one joker and a civilian who's car gets scratched to turn into a legal and PR nightmare. I don't like it, but it's reality.
). Loved it. 
