JpMotorsports

We were having this discussion at work. I know the 72 442 was an appearance package for 72. Is there any other way to tell a 72 442 besides the build sheet and obvious exterior and interior features that did not come on 442's such as no rocker molding stainless. Dose the VIN or trim tag show anything?

halfmoontrail

Search for threads on this, there have been a lot. Unless the VIN shows the W30 455, it will not tell you if it was 442-optioned. I don't think the trim tag will provide any useful info for this purpose.
Steve

Allan R

VIN and cowl tag don't show anything UNLESS it has an X in the VIN for motor ID. That's a guarateed 1972 442 W30.

Other than that you need either a:
build sheet (never find one in a Lansing car though)
original Bill of Sale
original dealer work sheet for the car showing the W29 order
Broadcast card showing W29 option in box 12

There is nothing else documentation wise that documents a 72 442, not even the protecto plate.

One thing about 442. The only Cutlass coupe that it was not offered on was the Cutlass Supreme HT (model 4257).

There are numerous 'deletes' and 'additions' in the W29 package that give the cosmetic and handling upgrades to a 442 - see the W29 option list. From the interior, you can't tell if the car was a 442 since the glove box script will say either 'Cutlass' (3287, 3677, and 3687 coupes) or 'Cutlass Supreme' (4267) vert.

I think we discussed this already on one of your threads.

JpMotorsports

Very cool thanks for the refresher trying to educate others as well as learn my self. the VIN X is a 455?

vette442

The X VIN is the L77 W30 455, and a car has to be a real 442 to have that engine(minus the handful of W45 Hurst/Olds that had it.)

The other two 455s are U (with TH400) and V (with M20 4 speed), but those two 455s could be found in many non-W29 cars.

Terry

NHolds

Unless it's a Supreme... then it's a Hurst. I've only seen one of them...

JpMotorsports

Thank you for the info I did not know the 455 codes. So in 72 you could order a supreme with a 455 and it would be a U or V code?

Allan R

True, but we were discussing 442's. I understand about the relatively few 72 HO's that had the X code engine. As a rule though, from 70-72, none of the Cutlass Supreme Hardtops qualified as 442, only the verts.

joe_padavano

Not a "rule", it's a fact. There were no 442s ever built on the 4257 body style (Supreme Holiday Coupe). Obviously the 72 H/Os were built using this body style.

Allan R

Rule, fact - same thing. We're on the same page.

joe_padavano

I know what you meant, but to most people, the phrase "as a rule" means "usually", not "always".

MDchanic

Most people who use the expression "as a rule" are about to use, or have just used, the expression "the exception proves the rule" without knowing what the word "proves" means.

- Eric

Allan R

Hmm, interesting. I use the expression "the exception to the rule" knowing full well what the rule is. In this thread the "exception" is the 72 HO with the X code engine. While that technically gives it 442 W30 lineage, I believe the W46 on the cowl tag trumps 442 as the car is badged and has unique cosmetics that distinguish it as a special entry to the market. Either way it seems like at least 3 of us are thinking alike. I'd bet there are more....

MDchanic

And, to clarify in case others are wondering:

The word "prove" (or "proof") [German Prüfe, Italian prova, Spanish prueba] in American English has come to mean "the establishment of certainty," when historically it has always meant "to test" ("proving grounds" "proof mark" "printer's proof" etc).

So, when most Americans say "the exception proves the rule," they mean something like "the exception validates the rule," which is fairly nonsensical, when the expression actually means, "the exception is the test of the rule's validity."

Similarly, Americans, not understanding the meaning of the word "proof," will, with depressing frequency, say "the proof is in the pudding," which is completely nonsensical, when the actual expression is "the proof of the pudding is in the tasting," which of course means that the only valid test of what you've cooked is how it tastes.

- Eric

Allan R

I think that "proves" your point and will stand the "test" of time.. But I'm afraid your comments will just confuse the majority who will continue to use the wrong terms and applications. Lead a horse ( or any animal for that matter) to water.....

JpMotorsports

Allan R did you get my PM?

Allan R

Check your inbox. Message sent.

We did discuss this last year via PMs when you had it up for sale and I told you the only way to truly document the car is as described in permalink 3 of this thread. I quickly came to the conclusion that it wasn't born a W29 442 because of numerous W29 components that were not evident. One of the first things in evidence was the stainless rocker trim, incorrect hood (missing Oldsmobile script and having rear cowl piercings which 72 AC cars did not), dual cutout bumper with trumpet exhausts (never left the factory with that in any of the L34 equipped cars) and incorrect side stripes.

Also little things like having a 442 emblem on the glovebox door and W27 cover (both never offered in 72) suggest someone tried to rebadge the car without knowing a great deal of accuracy. Remember, you're the 5th owner of this car and at least one of the previous ones obviously changed a fair bit of details about this cars provenance based on the way it sits now. All of the items I mentioned ^^^ are document-able using the 72 Cutlass Assembly Manual (copies of OLDS detailed drawings and comments). All that aside, it's a very good looking car and likely a blast to drive. Glad you decided to keep and enjoy it.

DEL663

This might clear up this for you guys.

Maverick22

The only other way is if it is a Canadian car, a GM heritage report is available...for a fee.

Allan R

No, it's not. Refer to permalink 3. The documentation you suggested is available for cars exported for sale in Canada, or produced in Canada (till Oshawa plant shut down). George Zapora is the curator of the service. He provides a profile of the car and it's options as it was built. I have one for my car as it was built for Canada and sold at Golden Mile Chev Olds in Ontario. Yes there is a fee. You send $$$ and your VIN and he does the rest.

Maverick22

I thought that if the GM heritage certificate, curatated by George, for CDN cars or cars exported to Canada, documents that the car came with the W29 option, it would verify that the 72 cutlass is a 442.

Sorry, i was wrong

JpMotorsports

I was not asking about my car. I was asking about 72's in general

Old442Head

just found out my supreme s is a vin x. What do I do about getting this to a museum or on the right hands. Love this car more than life itself but it's gotta go to right hands.

1972 cutlass supreme s 455 vin x w30.

Koda

The Oldsmobile in that picture is not a Cutlass Supreme. It is a Cutlass S, with what appears to be the 442 option, and, if it has the X in the vin you mention, it is a 442 W-30.

Cutlass Supremes have a different body style in hardtop than the Cutlass S that is very apparent. The only X vin Supreme hardtops in 72 were Hurst/Olds, and they are rather distinctive (white, gold reflective stripes everywhere, and they advertise the Indy 500.)

If you want to sell the car, put an ad in the for sale section of this forum. Documentation is everything, so start with numbers matching proof on block and transmission and go from there.

Old442Head

OK thank you. last thing i want to do is sell but business just went under and my garage with it. Cant have this car sitting under a cover In my driveway. If it truly is 1 of 19 I'm not worthy. I thought for sure it was just a Cutlass supreme which is rare enough.

joe_padavano

Before you count your chickens, perhaps you can post a photo of the VIN tag? Also, the non-original items on the car will lower the value. I can see an aftermarket A/C compressor, for example. A/C was not an option on any W30 in the 1972 model year. The windshield washer tank should be on the passenger side, which was necessary to make room for the larger R71 battery used on the 455 cars. The original air cleaner is not installed - do you have it? More photos would be useful.

Old442Head

Correct. Funny thing is that vintage air has been nothing but issues. As you can see my ac compressor is on the driver side which is jusr a bit higher than the usual pass mount. Talking to a member now cuz I noticed his is hitting and rubbing the hood like mine. Someone stole my forced air intake unfortunately while it was at a shop. The windshield washed has new bolts so I'm guessing it was moved for some reason? As all the hoses are still on passenger side. I get some pics on