scott_442

Got a new Olds on the radar and need help with deciphering the body tag. Thanks!

lemoldsnut

Ok I will give it my best.

70- year
33687- Cutlass v-8 hardtop coupe
BF- Lansing built
10545-?
942- Green bench seat
45 45 Aspen Green top and bottom
36A- ?

Hope this helps some

hurst68olds

last line is 06A = (built) June 1st week ('70)

1970cs

BF=Fremont CA.
LAN- Lansing

Allan R

Good try

ST 70 - 1970 model production year
3 - Oldsmobile Division
36(00) - Cutlass with V8 engine
87 - Body description - Holiday Coupe (also referred to as Hardtop coupe)
BF - Manufacturing Plant = Freemont California
BDY 10545(2) - Fisher assigned body number - different than VIN derivative
TR 942 - Green vinyl themed interior
PNT 45 45 - Upper / lower body color (Aspen Green as stated)
06A - (NOT 36A) Build month / week. In this case first week of June 1969 for the 1970 model year. This makes it a very early 1970 production car. If it had been built in 1970 the number would be much higher. Typically the body numbers were 6 numbers in length, but you have to start somewhere....

477767, 840154 - Fisher codes assigned to the body. Not much documentation anywhere on any site about these

scott_442

Thanks Allan and other responders! Don't care what the rest of you say, Allan is THE MAN when it comes to Oldsmobile minutia! So, having said that, should I buy it Allan?

scott_442

Always wondered about that '2' in the first line also. I see that alot but have no idea what it signifies.

scott_442

this might help...

Allan R

You over rate me, but thanks for the kind words.
If the rest of the car - under the hood and interior etc is as nice as that pic it would be hard to pass up if the price was right. You didn't say anything about that....

Allan R

Scott, the 2 would be the last number of the body. Sometimes the early ones were stamped at the factory by workers there. The production line started at 100001 for all model years, so your car in question was actually body 5462 (my bad).

1970cs

X2 on what Allen has said, also $ and what options the girl has on her, looks like dual exhaust from the pic 70 Cutlass S.

IMO only, green cars are little harder to move if need be, also I am very partial to Lansing built cars. Being born in Lansing and raised 15 mins away from the plants 1,2,3,4&5 and the old man working for Olds may have something to do with my preference.

Pat

1969w3155

Allan, 06A means it was a late build, a 1970 Cutlass built in the first week of June 1970, they could have been built as late as July before the shut down, and model year change-over.

Allan R

No Dan, I meant what I said. It was an EARLY build for the 1970 year because it was built in 1969. If the car was built in June of 1970 the body number would have been upwards of 500,000 and the factory would be starting to tool up for the 1971 model year. This body was *technically* # 5462 of the 1970 production models. Freemont's starting number for this line was 100001, and this one is 5462 (or 105462) whichever way you want to look at it. Given that Olds production was around 1000 + cars per day, this would be consistent with being built in the first week of June, 1969 for the 1970 model year introduction - typically in late August/early Sept.

hurst68olds

I agree - the low body number is due to the fact not alot of any one car was built in CA, lots of different cars in not so big numbers.

scott_442

Thanks. car has 35K orig miles on it. Very clean. Orig paint, etc. Notice how bright the tips of the needles are.

scott_442

Production date...does this help?

Allan R

scott - the car looks amazing. Hope it's just the picture but the lower part of the front fender (under the S and side molding) looks to be a different shade than the rest of the car. Is that just my imagination or lighting? BTW, that's one of the few cars I've seen that has the proper right side mirror. Heck it's one of the few Cutlass models (except for the sport mirrors) that I've even seen with a right side mirror.

The steering wheel looks to be in remarkable condition also, especially given the age. Most of them crack or split pretty easy. This car must have been pampered and kept in a properly controlled environment.

How about the engine compt? Love the pics you're posting. Is this one of those cars that is going to BJ in Jan? Or can you disclose $$?

Check with the seller and see if they have the original bill of sale and the POP, window sticker etc. That adds a lot to the valuation and provenance of the car.

1969w3155

Did Fremont have their model year change-over earlier in the year than Lansing? If this were a Lansing built car, they would have still have been building 1970 model year cars in June, with the 1971 cars coming on in August. It seems that we have a couple of members here that worked for Olds back then, and maybe they could clarify the model year change-over for us.

GAOldsman

Allan I have to say this is a June 1970 build. They started building the '70 model after July of '69, so this would be a late build for the '70 model production which would've went into the 1st or 2nd week of July 1970. Then re-tool and start releasing the 1971 year model shortly thereafter. I believe 08A (1st week of August) would be the earliest you would see in any model year to avoid any confusion.

hurst68olds

VIN starting sequences and Fisher Body sequences did NOT both start at 100001.

VIN sequences varied - Oldsmobile started Toronados at 600001 & 700001 depending on year.
Body numbers basically started at 1, there were changes to format at some plants some bodies during the muscle car era where the body number would excede the VIN# sequence.

& the hand stamped 2 is more likely 2nd shift than a final body number, unless samples can be found for all digits 0 thru 9?

GAOldsman

You betcha

hurst68olds

08A - August week 1

GAOldsman

Beautiful car and what wasn't mentioned is that there may be a few build sheet(s) buried within being a Fremont build

GAOldsman

Oops I fixed it

GAOldsman

Also those #'s at the bottom of the cowl tag pertains to the build and not much info there except that those #'s will show up in certain blocks of the build sheet.

scott_442

Loving this discussion. Allan, again, your eye for detail is amazing. Yes, both fenders have had small patches and were repainted up to the molding to keep from having the entire fender a diff color so there is a color difference. Engine needs to be detailed but original. 2 bbl. AC works. Any guess on Price??

GAOldsman

Being a 2bbl, column shift auto, and bench seat would keep it south of 15k IMO

hurst68olds

I agree & what's the top of the rear seat look like under that towel?

scott_442

Original owner had the mat cut to protect the top of the seats and the package tray from sun damage...similar cover on the dash. No damage to either. To me, shows extra care consistent with rest of car.

oldzzy

What does the trunk floor to inner wheel houses look like under the trunk mat.

scott_442

trunk pics...

oldzzy

Car looks good. Have you looked at it in person? I know the trunk seems where i asked about looked good on my car until i took the seam sealer out

Allan R

True, both didn't. All Cutlass VINs for these cars did however start at 100001

I've seen this before and will stand by my statement. The plants only had 2 shifts, and I've seen images of these tags with higher numbers stamped there to show a sequence. Been discussed on this site several times

VIN of 136134 would make it the 36,134th car in Freemont sequencing, but the body number is way low.

Scot - how could this be a late production for 70 with a VIN and body number that low? Something here doesn't make sense. I find it hard to believe that Freemont would have just 'stored' that body till June of 70 and thrown it into the lineup in June. If that VIN was from June, it should be much higher. My car's VIN is 208783 and the body is 442325 and it was produced in April!

I compared this body number to cowl tags I have seen from other plants, even similar ones that were produced close to mine at Lansing. I recently found out that one of our members has a car that was built the day after mine, and the body number was 900+ higher, and the VIN was 1200+ higher, indicating how many Cutlass models and other models were built there in a single day.

So, are you saying that the body numbers just keep rotating from 1-999999 and then start over? The only difference being the ST-model year, body style and plant? I'm having a hard time wrapping that one around my thoughts. I believe the body tags were started each model year and division at 000001. I have yet to see any from the era of this car that went over 650,000 in a single year. If you were to combine all GM A body production - no contest but even looking at Pontiac, Buick and Chev cowl tags it doesn't suggest that happens.


Have a look at 70 Chev body number built 3rd week of Nov (El Camino)


1970 Pontiac built in April of 70 note body number


1970 Buick built 2nd week of May

sammy

i like you taste!
Mine is a 70 Cutlass Supreme, 350 2bbl column shift with buckets. Looks very similiar

Allan R

Looks also like there may be some minor damage on the DS grill by the headlamp. Note: the 1970 Cutlass/CutlassS/VC grilles are not repopped so having damage on them means you have to know how to repair plastic and then repaint to match. In good condition those grills are scarce as hens teeth.

Front RS park light looks like it's chipped, may just be camera angle. Check that bright spot at the top right of the lens in the frontal image.

Back up lights show signs of water penetration - fairly easy fixes. Have you looked under the car?

Overall you're right about it being a serious contender to buy just based on looks. Color I wouldn't worry about because that's something that can be changed any time - if you want. If that's original paint except for the patch panels I'd probably just leave it. When you go look at the car, take a fridge magnet and go over the areas known for rust. Also look at the door and trunk pinch weld seams for signs of corrosion.

One last question. In the trunk on the passenger side drop. Looks like its been sprayed black. Any particular reason?

The 1970 Cutlass S V8 equipped cars came with that 350 2bbl as standard equipment. It's rated at 250 hp. It could be upgraded to the L74 350 with 310 hp, but that required the N10 dual exhaust system to be added. Also available was the L33 455 2bbl with the same requirement for N10. The downturned exhausts are correct for the N10 option BTW. Chances are good this is equipped with either a 2.56:1 or 2.78:1 rear axle.

The car looks very presentable. Given it doesn't have the high end performance package a lot of folks desire? I'd guess somewhere between 12 and 16K is the ask. I would not likely go higher than the 15K Scot suggested as a buyer though unless it has all the provenance items mentioned earlier.

Allan R

Ted, I was hoping you would jump into this thread because I remembered you have 2 1970 CS's. I know your red one is from Freemont, don't remember where the green one was built. Some of our more spirited discussion has been around the build time on the OP's target car. Any chance you could post both of your 70 cowl tags for comparison?

sammy

maybe i am missing something. My 70 Cutlass Supreme , Freemont car had a 08 29 schedule date(085) The vin seq is 100891 with a 2 stamped on the cowel tag. The blue sticker on the door has this number as does the cowel and Vin...i thought they were all suppose to match?

Ted

scott_442

Is it possible the '70' on the blue door sticker refers to the model year and not the production year? So, could have crossed the line in 06/69 which seems kind of early for a 70 model...but what do I know? Just a Moonshiner from NC!

Allan R

Ted, the VIN and Cowl tag numbers are not intended to match. The cowl tag has some redundancies with the VIN, but the body number assigned by Fisher is completely different. The VIN has 6 numbers assigned by the production plant as its line sequence. It would be a very very rare occurrence to see both of those being the same.

The blue sticker on the door should have the same info on it that you will find on the VIN plate on the upper dash. See permalink #16 with blue sticker ^^^

BTW, your build date?? (085??) Is that by chance 08E instead of 5? The time build sequence should be 2 numbers (month) followed by a letter (A-E) indicating which week of the month the car was built. I think you may be confusing the cowl and VIN info in your post? Can you post pics to clarify?

scott_442

Car does come with POP. I suspect Build Sheet is still with the car. (can't wait to start the hunt!). It's essentially a 1 owner car. Bought at an estate sale and flipped once or twice since. My intentions are not to repaint but to retain 'as is' originality and keep as a survivor...with a few tweaks. I've essentially got a deposit on the car for < $10K. Unfortunately, I'm unable to inspect the car in-person so unless I hire an inspector, gonna have to roll the dice on this one. However, given the reputation of the seller and all the pics and Q&A sessions, I don't feel much like a river boat gambler. Anyway, I really appreciate all of the candor and valuable info provided. Might be posting pics of my new ride before new years!! Thanks again.