Only back in 1897...

https://thenewswheel.com/electric-ca...t-almost-were/

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022...t-look-review/

Pretty impressive:
775 Lb-Ft
565 HP
300 Mile range
0-60mph = 4.4 seconds (quickest Ford truck ever produced - beats Raptor which was 5.2 seconds)
$41k price range

 

https://www.tesla.com/models


But at $144,490.

https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/mo...erzo-millennio

Be still my beating heart!

 

 

No doubt the EV will become mainstream and ICE's will start to fade away. It will be a while until EV's take over sales but the writing is on the wall.

 

Only because government will force us to.

 

Nobody is forcing me! The time has just come. Oil will run out one day. It not like there is a never ending supply! Oil & gas are super polluter! We have a nice run with them. Its time to move on!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-energy-crisis

Someone called EV guys sheep. Talk about sheep!!! Too many you you, believe all the bullshit on TV. News outlets lie to you, to take your money! What new outrage, will they feed you this week??? As we fight with each other!! China builds high speed train all over their nation. New highways all over. Bigger Navy. And yes, a hell of a lot more solar panels. Things are far from prefect in China. But they will pass us by!

https://foxnewsupdates.com/news/worl...-rail-network/

Many other nation also have a lot of high speed rail. NOT US! United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs.

I did not want to go this way!! But in my 63 years, its never been so bad!!! I fear the future of the greatest nation in history!!!!

 

Very well spoken. Pretty much the same in Canada. Politicians soap box and grandstand, but everything that has made us strong up in Canada has been given away.

 

Automakers are not announcing that they will stop making internal combustion engines and switch to a new technology that is not quite usable yet and for which the infrastructure does not exist, nor can we afford to build, out of love of electric technology. They do it because they see the writing on the regulatory wall.

Another note, oil will not run out in our lives or the lives of our great great grand children. Everytime oil prices go up, new technologies are developed to find and extract new oil, or oil that was previously too expensive to reach or process, increasing our inventories. The only thing that stops this most basic of market forces is.... Government.

See a trend?

 

Easier reservoirs of oil are exhausted! EV infrastructure are being build now. Do you think Ford would build a EV car & trucks with no place to charge.
infrastructure does not exist???? Just Tesla alone! Below. Most solar power with battery packs. Off the grid! Just zoom in the map.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=70.4941462985142%2C9.09393102811 9178%2C-5.461191214078918%2C123.63938362287627&zoom=3&filt ers=destination%20charger%2Csupercharger

 

Are you crazy! China has no EPA never abides by and rules! Doesn't care how many people died! I am a Ford owner . I have two trucks and two SUV's all are Ford's! I will never buy a electric vehicle!! There is more pollution making EV's then where you going to get rid of those batteries. Salvage yards don't want them! Ha you can have them EV's .

 

I did say. Things are far from prefect in China. I have no love for China!

https://medium.com/tradr/teslas-appr...n-5af99b62aa0e

https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling
EV batteries can last 10 years before they need to be replaced. None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled. To valuable to waste!

 

Read about China and coal. Solar panels and windmills aren't going to cut it.
China approved the construction of a further 36.9 GW of coal-fired capacity last year, three times more than a year earlier, bringing the total under construction to 88.1 GW. It now has 247 GW of coal power under development, enough to supply the whole of Germany.Feb 2, 2021

 

Not if China's population is around 1,500,000 people. US is around 335,000. Like 4.5 times more people!

 

I hope you realize that a large portion of the Chinese population does not live with the modern conveniences of western and European civilization. You really can't compare the entire country to the USA.


FYI your population numbers above are off by a factor of 1,000.

 

Things are changing fast in China. According to World Bank, a mere 19.4 percent of the Chinese population had been living in urban areas in 1980. Since then, China's urban population has skyrocketed. By 2020, about 64 percent of the Chinese population lived in urban areas. You are right 1.5 billion to 1/3 billion. Working on too many thing at the same time at home.

 

HighwayStar442 makes a lot of valid points.

Nixon (Republican) founded the EPA in 1970 and it cleaned up many cities. New York's pollution was horrendous in the 70's & 80's. Now it has very clean air.

Breathing lead gasoline and exhaust fumes spewing from a V8 running a carb with no emission controls, multiplied by 1,000s of cars, was not fun. It caused cancer, polluted the air, caused childhood diseases, made life miserable. Cleaning up vehicle emissions was a good thing. It made for horrible car performance in the late 70's, 80's, and 90's but by the 2000's, the performance was coming back.

A divided USA can end up destroying the USA. Divide and conquer. Much of the misinformation circulating today is actually from Russia and China. They are constantly posting misinformation on Facebook, TikTok, websites, etc., about the vaccine, politics, etc. The more we as Americans are at each others throats, the easier it will be for countries like Russia and China to overtake us.

EV's are the future. It's not a political thing but an environmental and technology thing.

 

I don’t disagree; I say the future is not here quite yet.

 

Ok, some reality here.

1. China's pollution is many times more than the rest of the world combined. If people are concerned about saving the planet, they need to go complain to China, but they won't, because they'll get killed.
2. So, for some stupid reason, let's just agree to hamstring the USA's economy to save the world from pollution and take a shower before getting into the swimming pool while China is over there shitting in it, but let's do it. Every alternative energy is expensive. We have TONS of cheap coal. TONS. Like coal the size of Kentucky. We can burn it for practically nothing and pollute ZERO. These stupid activists don't know that coal plant are filtered from here to last Tuesday and they emit....steam.
3. Solar sucks, is unreliable due to weather, and solar panels are toxic waste and expensive.
4. Windmills suck....well, they actually blow, but those huge ones literally cost more to make than they will ever generate.
5. Nuclear, which is safe, efficient, and cheap is poo pooed by activists because they are soo scared that the millions that died in Three Mile Island will be repeated (even though no one died at Three Mile Island) and that is literally the only blip on the USA's track record for nuclear power. It's like competing in the marathon of alternative fuels, and you just shot your knees. Both of them.
6. Remember Texas last winter? Remember California every summer? Expect the grid to die hard every hot summer day about 5pm when everyone gets home, cranks the air, and plugs in their Tesla. Even if we had the power, which we don't, the grid is decades from ready.
7. Lithium mines are probably the worst thing in the world environmentally, and every battery comes from them.

The way to have cheap, reliable, environmentally friendly, safe cars, is clean coal, nuclear power, hydrogen crackers, and fuel cells. No solar, no lithium, no wind, no grid loss. Nobody thinks about it, because EVs are politics, not science.

 

Never mind that solar and wind need reliable (AKA traditional) back ups for when the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow, or both.

With a nuclear, natural gas or coal power plant, their output is perfectly predictable.

 

You fight existing gas engines ban in car and trucks. LOL. I bet you roll over! As I stated before I will never own a EV period.

 

You do not know me very well. ROLL OVER THIS! Clean coal is BS.With that background, here are the pros and cons of clean coal.

Pros

• Abundant supply, concentrated in industrialized countries (US, Russia, China, India).
• Relatively inexpensive.
• Continuous power. Good utilization. High load factor.
• Substantial existing infrastructure. Mature industry.
• Can be made low carbon and clean with CCS and various scrubbers.
• Can be converted to a liquid or a gas, which burn cleaner.
• Clean coal technology is currently being used in China.
• Relatively low capital investment (compared to gas or nuclear).

Cons

• Coal is nonrenewable. There is a finite supply.
• Coal contains the most CO2 per BTU, the largest contributor to global warming.
• Severe environmental, social and health and safety impacts of coal mining.
• Devastation of environment around coal mines.
• High cost of transporting coal to centralized power plants.
• Coal ash is a hazard and a disposal problem.
• Coal mining is the second highest emitter of methane, a potent greenhouse gas.
• High levels of radiation. Coal plants release more radiation than nuclear plants.
• Coal burning releases SOx and NOx which both cause acid rain.
• Burning coal emits mercury and other heavy metals that pose major health risks.
• Coal emissions linked to increased rates of asthma and lung cancer.
• Sequestration is new, expensive and its ability to hold CO2 for long periods of time is unproven. Risk of accidental releases of large quantities of CO2.
• Clean coal is not carbon free.
• Significant energy penalties are incurred for sequestration.
• CO2 is toxic at concentrations above 5 percent. The condition is called hypercapnia.

 

finally, someone with a clue and a open eye to the outside world!!!

Personally, I think the emissions requirements have gone far enough. I think we have long since reached the point of diminishing returns. Use the money and resources to improve the electrical grid. Stop this nonsense of the crusher car programs. The idea of polluters buying pollution “credits” in exchange for buying cars that haven’t been daily drivers for YEARS, is absolutely ridiculous. Tying up the hands of industry in this county, while encouraging all the pollution overseas, is like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. There is no EPA, OSHA, no safety requirements in China or India. There is a reason shipbreaking and new steel mills air built overseas.

I personally would sleep pretty well at night living near a nuclear power plant. Other than 3 Mile Island, we have never had a nuclear disaster. Too many people have a “not in my backyard” attitude. How many nuclear powered military ships and subs do we have? Nuclear power is a proven science.


There is a need for EV under certain conditions. Until a battery swap or recharge is a quick and easy as a fuel stop is now. EV will appeal to a limited crowd.

 

In the UK edlectric vehicles account for about 10% of new vehicles sold.
Recharging stations are reletively easy to install compared to the USA or Canada simply because it is much smaller in area. North America has a much bigger infrastructure headache than Europe, but nothing compared to Australia or India for example.
But we can't go on using up finite resources. There is an elephant in the room that no politician will address: The planet has far to many humans on it, many times more than it can sustain. China tried to do something about it with its "One Child" policy, but that failed.

If governments didn't legislate to clean up the environment we would be breathing a toxic soup of lead, particulates from fossil fuel combustion, our rivers would be open sewers, CFC's would be pouring into the atmosphere, and toxic waste would be dumped anywhere convenient to the owners of the industries concerned. As long as they didn't have to pay to clear up the mess, and it made more short term profit do do nothing.
EV's won't go away, by 2035 they will be simply heaps better. 2021 technology is way ahead of 2006 technology, which was a quantum leap ahead of 1991, 1976 was the stone age in technology terms.

The solution?, it seems to be do nothing until we have a population crash. Unless someone has a better idea?

Roger.

 

Most of that cons list is overblown or outright bs.

 

Let's just agree to disagree! Just think of me. When a Cybertruck passes you by, and blow your doors off!!!

 

There are plenty of videos online of Tesla's blasting past gas guzzling V8's. With time, EV's will only get faster.

Even with ICE today. If you are not making at least close to 500HP, you will get pulled by most modern muscle cars.

As mentioned, NHRA announced an EV race class starting in 2022 and Summit Racing announced it will start selling performance parts for EVs. Even NHRA see's the writing on the wall. If NHRA will survive the next few years, it has to adapt and get more people interested. So EV's seems like a good avenue as the current business model for NHRA is dying and NHRA will go bankrupt if it doesn't revamp itself and make itself relevant again.

 

I am finding this pretty interesting. Hell I will be 89 in 2035. Here is a video from none other than Big Daddy Don Garlits who had built and electric dragster. His take on electric vehicles is pretty interesting.

The World's Quickest and Fastest Electric Drag Car - Don Garlits & Holley EVI - Bing video

 

[QUOTE=redoldsman;1343910]I am finding this pretty interesting. Hell I will be 89 in 2035. Here is a video from none other than Big Daddy Don Garlits who had built and electric dragster. His take on electric vehicles is pretty interesting.

Big Daddy! One of my childhood heroes. Still racing.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports...electric-motor

 

Did you know that water vapor has a stronger greenhouse affect than CO2? Something to think about.

 

I think this thread will still be active in 2035. At that time It will be interesting to see how much of what was posted has become reality.

 

Lol, there's the "I ran out of points and can't win" phrase. I actually write my arguments out because I know them; I don't copy from a website.

Here's the thing, this website is called Classic Oldsmobile. It's a forum for a dead brand, and the older cars of that dead brand at that. The vast majority of the cars on
the road can blow the doors off of most of our cars, and that's fine. The guys on this site, while I don't speak for them, seem to enjoy traditional things like muscle cars,
fishing, football, guns, beer, rock n roll, etc. There's a certain sort of topic expected here, and ones that aren't. It's not censored or blocked; it's just knowing your audience.

Going full tilt green power AOC Green New Deal on this EV thread, well, it's not going over real well, because we like our old cars, and a lot of the guys are old, too, and they
like it the way it was. It's just like Pettrix coming in here and making arguments about the cars not being safe enough, or not being efficient enough, or not having enough
performance. Highway gears, RPM, fuel economy, seat belts....he's hit it all in the past year and you'd think he'd be happier on a new Mustang forum or something. If not
that, it's how drag racing is dying out completely just this year or something.

As for me, I have a unique spot, I work for one of GM's rivals. It could be argued that that rival had a hand in killing off Oldsmobile. As such, I am very careful to only mention
anything from that position on whatever topic is at hand, and ONLY that, since most guys here, I reasonably assume, don't want to hear anything further about that on this forum.
While I have talked the current car lineup with some folks over PMs, it's not my place to stir up animosity since it's a sensitive topic, and the other two topics mentioned above
are equally sensitive. You got to know your audience.

For instance, Red posted an electric drag racing link; that's something we can get behind.

 

Funny on how discussing topics has to turn into personal attacks by some. Sad. I love the old muscle cars but always want to improve them. Make them safer, faster, more reliable, handle better, stop better, etc. Just like Kindig, Foose, Hot Rod Garage, etc. and many others do on today's popular shows. A purist I am not. I understand it but it's just not my thing. I respect them but it doesn't float my boat.

I've owned GM cars most of my life, never owned a Ford, daily driver is an import but that's a whole other topic.

Not many Olds fans are out there, compared to brands like Chevy and Ford. This forum attracts the purists, modifiers, racers, junkyard builds, pro touring, etc. I don't participate in the purist threads as that is not my thing. The classic car scene is not what it was like the 80s, 90s and 2000's. Times change. Most of the car hangout places have shutdown over the years and the scene has changed. That's life. Things change, people die, technology advances, and time waits for no one.

EV is going to be a dominant part of the future of cars. That's a fact. It's interesting discussing it. If one doesn't like that topic. Nobody is forcing them to post on the thread.

 

Well stated Koda.

 

In the early years of the 20th century there was a competition between technologies as to what the preferred method of powering road vehicles would be. On one side you had technologies that were extremely mature, like Steam. On the other side you had new technologies like electric and internal combustion. Just a few years later, gasoline was selected by consumers as the undisputed winner.

We are having a kind of a repeat of this now, but not because the consumer is asking for electric technology, but because government at all levels is forcing electric technology upon us, in the form of mandates, taxes, incentives to electric and outright bans of internal combustion engines.

I have nothing against electric cars. I think they have some advantages, but they also have the exact same drawbacks that caused them to lose that contest 120 years ago, which continue to cripple them. What bothers me is government forcing me to do things. This country was built on the sovereignty of the individual, not on bureaucrats conducting social engineering.

 

Do not put words into my mouth that I never said! I dislike people who do that, Saying more of you can bring a horse(or Mule in a few cases) to water, but you can not make it drink. I may not change the minds of maybe anyone. Some just will never believe facts. Just the crap from left and right. Pitting one against the other for profit! You see it everyday! Dem and rich people have pizza parlors that have rooms. To have sex with children and later eat them. BATSHIT CRAZIES! The really big lie goes on everyday! As I told you I and not political. But a history buff. And see Fascism rears its ugly head in the United States! Others believe otherwise.

Work has started to get crazy. Now that thing are getting back to normal. Every tom, dick and harry is calling me to design their sprinkler system ASAP. Something about steel pipe price going higher. Have no time for a pissing match with you.

NO ONE IS MAKING ME AND MILLIONS OF OTHERS WANT A EV. No need to wait to 2035. Just give it 5 to 7 years. Technology is accelerating, faster and faster. As I read 100's things on the web, and relay them here. Including what I learned, good and bad on coal and so many other things. I read both side and make up my mind.

As you PM me..
Here, you're a political guy, you'll understand this. Whose site is this? Who pays for it? Who gave the moderators their status? Who makes the rules? Should we change the rules? Should the membership have a say in the rules? I think they should, seeing as how "the product" is our collective wisdom. I have a stake here; you do, too. Should we have a right to have input in how it should be done? Perhaps. I've long sponsored a politics section, but I can't get it done because the moderators, two in particular LOVE their authority.

You are not happy how thing are run on this site and some who run it. Wanting to turn it Political. As I told you, that would be the end of OC! I am a history buff and not political guy. Both parties suck!!