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Hi , new to the forums, with electric cars about to become mainstream. I’ve adopted a little plan. I own an 72 cutlass . I currently have it in a body shop having some paint splashed on it. Once it done, I am about to rebuild the drivetrain so I can run it up the track during test and tune nights. Im planning to drive as many miles as I can on the street. Also a regular at the track on Friday nights.
I just figure over the next five years. There are going to be some fabulous, supercar fast , electric cars introduced. This will be the same cars we drive to work everyday. Of course they will be nothing but appliances, very fast , cool looking appliances.
Since I currently own an old muscle car. I’m not only planing to drive the wheels off it . Instead of washing my cutlass then putting it back into the garage . I’m going to assume , that I may loose some of magic in my soul. That made me fall in love with these old mechanical dinosaurs from childhood. That give us every reason to love them. And my thoughts can be wrong. I may and most likely will never loose the feeling I still get. Every single time I see any classic car rumble down the street.
In the mean time , I’m not going to take that chance. I am planing to enjoy my car. As if I am part of the last generation to truly understand this crazy hobby. Anyway , just my thoughts and plans.
Last edited by 72GrnCS; March 4th, 2021 at 11:52 AM.
Alcohol based fuel has it's own set of problems. It's very corrosive, it collects moisture, it goes bad fast (not good for cars that don't get driven every week). It tends to wash down the cylinders. It will attack the rubber & plastic compounds and the zinc and aluminum alloys used in carburetors & older fuel systems. Ethanol/alcohol is very hygroscopic, it's like a water sponge.
Once it gets below 50F outside, good luck starting your engine. I know people who run ethanol and cold temp starts on ethanol are difficult. While most won't drive their cars when it's close to freezing, starting an engine with E85 when it's 40F outside would be one brutal cold start up.
As technology doubles itself every few years. New lubricants and cleaner fuels may be developed. EV shall require much less charging time and go much further as time goes on. It may take 30 - 40 years before the internal combustion engine will only be in museums and the hands of collectors. By that time, there a good chance hydrogen power will rule the day. Too bad I will not be around.
Not in the US Bill of rights. Like guns. To many of us hobbyist will have something to say about ending our hobby. I would be one of the loudest voices!
The above is the FUTURE of cars. If you want to be ahead of the curve and make millions of dollars. Learn the engineering on how to install electric motors into older vehicles.
You fail to grasp the concept of having an old car. It's the sound, feel, memories, and experience.
We were told 10 years ago the ev would take over. How did the volt work out? Nobody wants that crap. The Tesla is kinda cool but still not that popular. We have a charging station near me between detroit and chicago with 6 or chargers and you might see 1 car sitting at any given time. Most of the time it's a pizza delivery guys car sitting there. Keep them on west and east coast. They deserve them.
I know coal fired cars are coming but ten years is optimistic for takeover.
Alcohol based fuel has it's own set of problems. It's very corrosive, it collects moisture, it goes bad fast (not good for cars that don't get driven every week). It tends to wash down the cylinders. It will attack the rubber & plastic compounds and the zinc and aluminum alloys used in carburetors & older fuel systems. Ethanol/alcohol is very hygroscopic, it's like a water sponge.
Once it gets below 50F outside, good luck starting your engine. I know people who run ethanol and cold temp starts on ethanol are difficult. While most won't drive their cars when it's close to freezing, starting an engine with E85 when it's 40F outside would be one brutal cold start up.
I’ll agree with some of what you said, but not all of it. At work we store methanol and ethanol in plastic bottles. Heck, the manufacturers even ship it in plastic jugs. No issues with that.
My car has run on ethanol fuel for over 20 years and the carb and fuel tank are fine, the sams as the multitude of old cars here. And we have plenty.
Any rubber in the system can easily be replaced with modern materials that are alcohol compatible. That’s something that should be done on any driver these days.
I mean, really, if gasoline is no longer available, don’t you think anyone wanting to drive their Olds won’t be able to figure out how to make it run on an alternative fuel? Soccer moms might be clueless on how to do it, but gearheads will find a way.
Last edited by Fun71; March 4th, 2021 at 07:57 PM.
You fail to grasp the concept of having an old car. It's the sound, feel, memories, and experience.
Trust me, I do grasp and understand the nostalgia of it. Yet, I am a realist and realize that time marches on and waits for nobody. The older muscle car "hobby" is aging and those people who were teenagers in the 1970's are now in their late 60's and early 70's. Many of them are beginning to sell off and liquidate as they are getting to the age where driving and maintaining those vehicles is no longer realistic.
The younger generation today doesn't really care or show much interest in the 60's and 70's cars. They have modern muscle cars like the newer Charger, Camaro, Mustang, imports, etc. that can make 500HP - 800HP with daily driveability, fuel injection, overdrive, etc. They are not interested in a 50 year old car when modern muscle is faster, safer, handles, stops, etc. better than anything made 50 years ago.
My point is the "nostalgia" is for those who grew up in that era, and they are aging out & passing on. It's just a part of life. Trust me, I get it and hate getting older but I see the writing on the wall and reality of it. EV's have come a long way and the tech is advancing in leaps and bounds.
Last edited by pettrix; March 5th, 2021 at 09:01 AM.
As classic car owners I feel we are fortunate. We understand and appreciate the 50 year old car we drive. We also benefit from today’s fabulous technology. So are we dinosaurs trying to hang on to the past?
Stop for a moment and think this through. As humans we are a generation away from autonomous cars. Soon we will not only not operate one . There will be no reason to own a personal vehicle. You just call one up to get transported , someone else’s problem. This will never reverse, not for a hundred generations. I think I’m going to celebrate just a little bit inside. The next time I feel a young man has no real use for any of our classic cars.
btw I plan to embrace the up and coming electric cars . I would support GM if they are smart enough to build an electric Z28 lol.. I hope they do the same thing as they did in 2010 . Basing a modern car on a classic design.
Last edited by 72GrnCS; March 6th, 2021 at 05:06 AM.
btw I plan to embrace the up and coming electric cars . I would support GM if they are smart enough to build an electric Z28 lol.. I hope they do the same thing as they did in 2010 . Basing a modern car on a classic design.
We will know the answer to that question, but it might not be for another 2-3 years. They already gave the public a sneak peek at a Hummer SUV, and I'd like to think they are smart enough for the next one to be in a mid-size SUV format ala the Equinox. The Bolt EUV is a step in that direction, but it's a compact crossover offering. They need to fill the gap and offer something in that D2UX/D3UX platform size.
Also, doesn't it just make sense for them to offer an electric Z-28? The electric version would have the Z as more of a lightning bolt design. Someone in marketing ought to be smart enough to see that...
Stop for a moment and think this through. As humans we are a generation away from autonomous cars. Soon we will not only not operate one . There will be no reason to own a personal vehicle. You just call one up to get transported , someone else’s problem.
That is easy enough to do in an urban area, but it won't work in rural areas.
And I pity the person going to church in their Sunday finest who gets the same vehicle that someone just came from the muddy dog park with their pack 'o hounds.
I see everyone point about the classic I grew up in the 60's and 70's. My favorite Olds shall always be 1969 Hurst/Olds. Followed by 70 Skylark GS 350, 68 GTX, 65 GTO, 72 Riviera GS, 66 Barracuda.
I do have thing for 1980's cars. Own a new 84 H/O, Interior and other parts now in my 87 custom Cutlass. Popular G-Body architecture and even K-Body 81-85 Seville's and Eldorado's with their mostly horrible engines. Have a huge following with Generation X and Millennials. Some 150 million of them. Classic car ownership is just heading to slightly newer models. You all know how I feel about EV. Truly looking forward to my Cybertruck. But you will have to pull my Cutlass from my cold dead hands!
Modern muscle cars, to me have too many things to go wrong. To powerful for most to drive. And may not be easy to restore in years to come. Please correct me if I am wrong.
40 years into the future, his may all morph into Classic EV one day.
And its starts!
Last edited by HighwayStar 442; March 5th, 2021 at 11:56 AM.
Reason: And its starts!
I figure once EVs are piling up in salvage yards, the parts will be cheap enough that folk will transplant an electric motor and batteries in place of the V-8 in their beloved car. Similar to what was done back in the early days of hot rodding when flat head V-8s got put into 30s-40s era cars that originally had 4 bangers.
Another benefit to EVs is that an EV motor that makes 800HP will make that same HP, regardless of elevation. With ICE's, you lost power each 1,000 feet of elevation you climb. So a car in Denver will lose power vs that same car while in Chicago. Approximately 3-5% power loss for every 1,000 feet of elevation.So you can see up to 25% power loss at 5,000 feet elevation with ICE's.
Humidity and air temperatures also play a role in ICEs.
Here is that EV Camaro that ran 9.8 @ 134 MPH with it at 80% power. The noise is coming from the TH-400 trans.
Did automobile shows and collecting start with the automobile or did they have horse and buggy shows that evolved into the car shows and collecting we know it today.
What happens if China shuts us off from rare earth materials?
Im aware we have them on U.S. soil but the mining of them is so environmentally appalling even China is concerned.
The bigger question (pun intended) is: How will these or many other materials even be mined when ICE's are banned along with the burning of fossil or even renewable fuels? This is one of the problems as I see it with this topic. Most people pushing the elimination of all ICE's or those convinced that there is no place for the ICE in the future cannot comprehend and/or intentionally choose to ignore that there are situations where full EV or EP (E-Power) simply will not work. Heavy earth moving equipment used miles from the closest connection to a power grid and diesel-electric locomotives running across the country just to name 2. Tesla is making electric 18 wheelers, but how about the refrigerator trailers that need to run non-stop to keep perishable foods from going bad when shipped long distance? Don't even get me started on being forced to find a new way to heat your home/ garage if you are running oil/ propane/ natural gas or emergency generators. If you have ever been in a hospital, what do you think those red outlets in the wall are connected to and why do you think they are there? Hint: when the grid goes down something needs to kick in ASAP to keep generating electricity and make sure that "appliance" keeping you alive is still running.
^^^ Can you imagine something like this running on batteries?
Last edited by Loaded68W34; March 6th, 2021 at 11:44 AM.
I will say however, this thing along with the eCOPO are awesome! I would consider doing a conversion like this to my vista if it were not for the limited range, the fact that the vista has a TON of electronics that would further limit the range, and most importantly the cost. I was only making about 350 HP to the wheels when the vista driveshaft broke on the dyno (3rd run at a little over 4K RPM). I can't imagine what instant torque on a 600-800 HP motor would be like.
Does this mean that we will see pure electric powered aircraft and ships and transcon trucking and rails also? I don't think so. Currently, pure electrics are not recommended for extreme cold climates and the range makes them useful only as commuters regardless how many charging stations Elon Musk puts in place. As recently seen in Texas, we can't depend on wind and solar without fossil fuel backing up the grid. I lived on Florida's space coast for a couple years and the house there had solar heated hot water, but with electric backup for the non sunny days of which there were plenty. Living in coastal Georgia, we get hurricane threats several times a year. We decided to evacuate when Floyd was a threat to our area and spent several hours stuck on an evacuation route that did not start moving until after Floyd had passed (without damage to our area). Even then we were not allowed to return so had to continue toward an inland refuge!
I don’t think the ICE will ever totally disappear, I’m guessing there will always be some old goat clinging to days gone by (I’ll probably be one of them!).
Until you can recharge a battery as quickly and easily as refueling your car is now, I doubt electric will ever be as practical as the ICE.
As smart as Elon Musk or other electric car geniuses are, I can’t believe nobody has thought to make batteries easily swapped instead of charging them. Let’s say your on vacation, you notice your battery is getting low. You pull into a BATTERY station, park over a pit, the battery is swapped with a freshly charged one. Your depleted battery goes to a charging station where it’s swapped into another car later once it’s fully charged.
The only way something like that would be feasible is to standardize all the batteries. Or at least make them common (economy cars get a “AAA” style, sedans get AA, land yachts get a C, trucks get a D, big trucks get a lantern style).
Or maybe I’m just to stubborn to accept that the technology will eventually be here. I’m probably like the cowboys who shunned the car because they like horses. Or the flathead Ford guys who turned up their noses to the small block Chevy. Or someone who can’t stand seeing a LS swap into anything with wheels.
I can’t believe nobody has thought to make batteries easily swapped instead of charging them.
Battery swapping has been talked about for as long as there have been electric cars. Given how many "standard" battery platforms there are for cordless power tools, how do you think the standardization thing would work? Frankly, it's probably easier to vehicle-swap instead of battery-swap, which is why the whole car ownership thing will be changing.
In any case, there are currently many companies working on it.
Or maybe I’m just to stubborn to accept that the technology will eventually be here. I’m probably like the cowboys who shunned the car because they like horses. Or the flathead Ford guys who turned up their noses to the small block Chevy. Or someone who can’t stand seeing a LS swap into anything with wheels.
Ok, I’m definitely guilty of the last one.
The Government didn't have to subsidize cars to get folks to give-up horses. The Government didn't have to subsidize small-block Chevies to get people to buy them instead of Flatheads. The Government doesn't have to legislate that engines get replaced with LS swaps, people do that willingly.
OTOH, Government is throwing it's enormous weight behind bull***** lame, non-viable technologies because they're politically-correct. This is EVIL. We're being lied-to about electric (and autonomous) vehicles. They're putting rings in our noses so that we go where they lead. We are--apparently--DECADES away from viable electric vehicles; and we're putting the hurt on our power grid while kidding ourselves about the "eco-benefits" where tailpipe emissions are gone...replaced by mountains of slag for battery production and smokestack emissions (that we don't see 'cause they're miles, states, or entire countries away from where we are.)
END SUBSIDIES for non-viable technology. NO "corporate welfare".
End subsidies for non-viable technology, huh? So, guess that means the oil and farming industries can stop getting their subsidies as well. Good grief.
Corporate welfare has been going on since at least the 1940's. What rock have you be hiding under.
Wikipedia - Subsidies considered excessive, unwarranted, wasteful, unfair, inefficient, or bought by lobbying. The label of corporate welfare is often used to decry projects advertised as benefiting the general welfare that spend a disproportionate amount of funds on large corporations, and often in uncompetitive, or anti-competitive ways. For instance, in the United States, agricultural subsidies are usually portrayed as helping independent farmers stay afloat. However, the majority of income gained from commodity support programs actually goes to large agribusiness corporations such as Archer Daniels Midland, as they own a considerably larger percentage of production.
Pretty much every car company is claiming the all electric by 2035. We will need a huge power grid upgrade and batteries that don't fade in -40 up here. We love our 2017 Dodge Challenger GT, very few issues at 60K. Every available feature and 37 Imperial MPG on highway trips. We plan on buying another one before this body style is gone, unless the new ones look as good, doubtful. It sounds like Dodge will continue this generation of Challenger along side the new model, like the Ram Classic, at least for some time after at any rate.
Driving an electric car is one thing. Letting it drive itself is another thing altogether. I cannot fathom anyone hating driving so much that they'd sign over their safety and well-being to a vehicle controlled by AI to get out of doing it.
I cannot fathom anyone hating driving so much that they'd sign over their safety and well-being to a vehicle controlled by AI to get out of doing it.
Spyware in your car will take care of that.
ONSTAR and similar systems already know where you are, and how fast you're going. There'll be direct communication from car to Government. The Government will have every road mapped-out with all the traffic devices, speed limits, school zones, construction zones "accurately" located. You go two miles an hour over the speed limit, your own car will report you and either they'll mail you a ticket, or you'll pay your fines at the gas pump before you'll get any fuel. I expect that at first, they'll assume the registered owner is driving, but after a year or two, the on-board computer will synch with the RFD chip in your driver's license or your thumbprint on the scanner in the dash, so you can't claim someone stole your car and earned all those tickets.
Think about automated "Policing For Profit" traffic enforcement cameras now...then multiply that mess by a thousand.
Folks will be SCREAMING to let AI drive because it'll take two weeks of ACCURATE round-the-clock enforcement for most folks to accumulate enough traffic tickets to lose their driver's license.
Last edited by Schurkey; March 10th, 2021 at 08:37 PM.
Sooner or later, there will be a serious collision between cars with the self driving technology. It will be caused either by a software glitch, mechanical problems, or some other unforeseen problem. My question, where does the responsible begin or end? Who is going to lose their shirt over the financial liability? Will the car maker be held responsible? The company that wrote the software? The corporation that gathers the information about the conditions the car is being operated in?
Sooner or later, the legal profession is going to make some serious money when it comes time to answer those questions. And when it does happen, you can bet the everyday people will pay far more.
The nice thing about overly technical oppressive government systems is they can be easily disrupted. I am sure the onstar antenna can be unplugged. Traffic cameras make really nice targets for small arms practice here. In the UK, where they gave up guns, they necktie them with a tyre filled with burning petrol (to use their words.)
I will take autopilot over a lot of people on cell phones, sleepy, drugged, daydreaming, drinking or just bad drivers etc. Tesla has a redundant second computer. And pulls over to the side of the road for that or mechanical problem. Look at all the car accidents now!! It's not safe. Just look it up! From the John V School of safe driving (WATCH OUT FOR THE OTHER GUY)
The part about the Government. Well all you guys with cell phones, they know where you are already. I stop having a cell phone 10 years now. Had one when they first came out. I had more than enough radio waves go through my brain! Not happy about the Government knowing everything I do. But nothing you can do, without going back to the stone age at this point..
March 4th, 2021 | 10:40 AM
....your 100% right re old car sound and feel...
