Hello all,
Thought I would post here first before the engine forum until I know exactly what I have. This is a basic question regarding Olds engine types and worth. I am starting a restore project on a Ford F1 1949 truck that I am told has a Olds rocket engine. This truck (and motor) has been sitting for over 30 yrs now. If the engine is truly identified as rocket motor should I attempt to have it rebuilt instead of replacing with something newer and more common like GM 350? The engine is paired with a 3 sp manual transmission on the floor.
Any comments , advice appreciated. Also, is there a guide for proper identification of the engine (how to) locate ID numbers etc.

Thx
Bw

 

I think you are asking for information that is available with a little help from you. You need to post a few pics so we can help you. So far, you described an engine between 1949 and 2004.

 

Personally, I like to keep with the same manufacturer all the way through. Even if it’s not original to the vehicle. My 53 F100 has a 408 stroked 351 in it backed up by an aod. A Chevy 350 would be easier and a 700r4 would be a better transmission, but I just can’t bring myself to cross them up like that. I considered putting a small block Chevy in my olds, but I just can’t do it. Cutlassefi is building me a stroker for that one as well. Coulda bought a Chevy crate motor for half the price. Neither of them have engines that are in any way original, but if I want a Chevy engine, I should just buy a Chevy.

Just one man’s amateur opinion. Take it for what it’s worth.

If I were in your situation, I could easily justify buying a non running olds to build the olds motor for and then buy or build a motor for the truck. Turn 1 car into 2. Like magic...

 

It’s going to sound like heresy here, but an Olds 350, great motor that it is, will be a bit harder to source part for and a bit more expensive to rebuild than a Ford something-er-other. Plus that kind of Frankenstein combo (interesting as it is) will appeal to fewer buyers if you decide to sell.

I’m with crowd who’d vote keep a Ford truck with a Ford drivetrain. I suspect it’ll be easier to maintain and easier to sell if you decide to. If you’re going ground up and custom, modern V8 of a displacement to your liking, 4+ forward gears and disc brakes all around if you can.

My 2 cent
cf

 

Depends 0n what the end product is. If you want to buiid a truck you can drive whenever you want, itd be best to put a motor that you can get parts for whenever you need them.
If you want an oldschool HotRod, then leaving in the Olds motor might be the way to go.

More info, and some pictures of the motor and truck will be helpful.

 

Since you said it was identified as a Rocket motor and it has a 3 speed on the floor I am going to guess it may be a first generation Olds motor. They were a pretty popular swap years ago and often couple with a Ford transmission. They also had Rocket on the valve covers. If it requires a rebuild it will probably be better to switch to something else because they are expensive to rebuild and finding somebody that can do the machine work could be a problem.

 

Sounds like early Olds power to me. Yes it is more expensive to build. BUT, it is 200% cooler than any more modern engine you could swap in. It also has the advantage of lots of speed equipment available. So you can make it even cooler! Do you want a "belly button" car, or something different from the crowds? Your choice!

 

That sounds like a neat truck. A sbc swap is one thing, easy and cheap unfortunately. I personally would take an AODE over a 700R4 swap. Either way, figure out which Olds engine is in there and getting it running and access from there.

 

Here some photos.

Hello All,

Hopefully someone here may be able to help me identify from what I am told is an Oldsmobile engine. I am doing a restoration on a F1 Ford Truck. Two photos left and right angles of the engine. I know the block codes are on the timing cover shelf but hard to see, may need to steam clean first. Thought I would see if anyone may know from only a photo?

 

The valve covers in the photos look like an Olds 303. It's missing the spark plug wire covers.

 

The valve covers are 49 or 50 and as Joe said the spark plug covers are missing. These valve covers were a popular swap onto later 303 and 324 enignes. So it is either a 303 (most probable) or a 324. The double water pump and crankshaft pulley and the fact the generator is on the left side of the engine indicates it is a 49-51 303.

 

Probably since it is a three on the floor, it has an adapter to mate the Olds engine to the original Ford transmission. That was the favored method to make these engine swaps in the old days.

 

You are probably correct on the adapter. The other thing it probably has is the starter moved to the passenger side which was common. I still believe it is a 49-51 engine but somebody changed the intake to a 4-barrel since a 4-barrel was not available until 1952.

 

I would replace it with a crate 350 engine, or maybe even a SBF if you want to keep it all Ford. You can get a complete from oil pan to carburetor crate 350 for under $3,000. Rebuilding that 303 will not be cheap and it will take a ton of time, money, and effort, and parts will be an issue. You will probably end up spending more to rebuild that 303 than to get a 350 crate engine. Seems that from a standpoint of parts availability, time, and money invested the SBC route is the way to go.

 

It depends on what the OP wants. A bellybutton crate Chebby will never be as cool as a first gen Olds, especially one that was probably swapped into that truck when it wasn't that old. Why be a lemming? Cheapest is rarely the best. If you must put in a different motor, at least make it a Ford. And if you decide to swap, be honest about the cost of the collateral damage (motor mounts, trans or adapter, fuel system, intake, carb, exhaust, linkages, cooling, etc, etc.). Just because the crate motor can be had for less than rebuilding the 303 doesn't mean that the installed, running cost is less.

 

I agree that it would be cooler, and may end up close to being the same cost to get it running, but down the road the SBC is so easy, and cheap to maintain. A water pump, a distributor, a fuel pump, gaskets, motor mounts, and all the bolts and small parts etc... All available at your local auto parts store.

 

Back to my point - does the OP want a bellybutton motor or a vehicle that stands out? And seriously, how many miles will this vehicle see in a year? It's unlikely to need another waterpump in the owner's lifetime. Motor mounts will be custom for the swap either way.

 

Agree it is up to the OP on what he is looking to do, but I can tell you one thing, with all the made in China parts now being sold, you end up needing to replace parts all the time. I have found that the less I use the car, the more I need to replace parts that I already replaced, LOL. So not using the car much is no guarantee of parts longevity. I can't tell you how many times I have to replace parts that I had replaced before, on a car that only gets a couple hundred miles a year. And don't get me started on all the reproduction stuff that never fits, and is nothing like the OEM stuff.

 

Yeah, and most parts for a 303 won't be chinesium. Since no one makes new water pumps, you'll be rebuilding the original. The fact that crap parts are are readily available for a Chebby is not an endorsement.

 

I know that you will be rebuilding al ton of the original parts, as no one makes them anymore, but that brings another issue, and that is that there are fewer and fewer businesses out there doing this stuff. A lot of times I make do with what I have as the repro stuff is expensive, does not fit well, and the quality is suspect, and the rebuilders are just nowhere near me. I have been nursing an original radiator for years, as there is no one that can do it locally anymore. All the parts store that we buy stuff from usually sell the exact same chinesium stuff, and some of it is okay. I just had to replace my blower motor with a chinesium part bought at the local parts store. OEM one lasted almost 50 years, I doubt this one will last anywhere near that long, but at least it is available, and if it goes bad I can replace it again.

 

X 2
X 2
Because someone (72442conv) lives in "parts and services desert", this is no reason to expect the OP to limit himself with crappy parts and laziness/ability to find suitable services.

 

If I was building this old truck from scratch, would I put a SBC in it. Yes I would because it is easy and makes a nice installation with lots of parts available. Regardless of what some people on here think, the SBC is a great engine (millions of them out there). If I bought this truck like it is, would I keep the first generation Olds engine in it? Hell yes I would because of the cool factor. These were the first real hot rod engines after the flathead. The last 40 Ford I drove back in 1965 had a 53 Olds engine in it.

 

I'd keep the 303 for maximum cool/dare to be different points. Is it broke?

 

Engine swaps like that were common back in those days. The Olds V8 was the swap engine of choice because it was the only OHV V8 available at the time...5 years ahead of the next OHV V8 from Ford.

Early Olds V8's were the swap engine of choice, just like the small block chevy is the swap engine of choice now. look at old hot rod magazines and there are more Olds V8's swaps into other cars and trucks than any other engine. that Olds in that old Ford truck is a period correct hot rod of that era

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/0901sr-oldmobile-v8-engines/

 

Cadillac actually beat Olds to the punch by a couple of months with their 331 -- more clout with the boss, I'm thinking. And the Caddy was at least as popular as the Olds with the rodders.

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed information and remarks regarding my project. This confirms a few things I was told about the history of the F1 . I acquired the truck in 83 and just now finding time undertake the restore. My original plan was to rebuild with (Ford equivalent) or 4L60E behind a Gen I SBC 350. As many stated here, parts are a plenty and many retro options. However, I am now re-thinking that plan and might really enjoy a more unique setup and just rebuild the 303 and keep the 3 speed floor tranny. Ultimately, my goal is make this a weekend driver to the hardware store with low yearly mileage. I will pull the engine in a few weeks, tear it down to see if even salvageable. It's been sitting for ~ 40 years with no plugs as well. I don't know the impact of not having plugs in it for that long but I will find out soon.

I do have a questions for you guys regarding rebuilding the 303. (if that's what it is). Even if I can find parts, and do the machining etc. how much $$ can I expect to pay out if I want a really good rebuilt engine. If this engine is toast, are there other sources where I can find another re-built (crate ) 303 or larger displacement that will matchup to the clutch plate adapter.

Thx
Bnw

 

There is a ton of used vintage speed equipment out there for the early Olds motors. You can build a really cool vintage motor on that platform. It won't be as cheap as a belly-button Chebby, but it will be infinitely cooler.

 

Before I did much to the engine see if it will turn over with a socket/ breaker bar on the dampener and see what problems await you. It's not good that it was left without the plugs in it. Also while you are there see if the heads are cast with a number on them. If no number or a #3 it's most likely a 303. If there is a # 7, 8 . or 10 it's a 324.

In my opinion there is no cool factor in a SBC even if it is in a early Ford pu. It's just something there to push it's self down the road. Its just as common as a belly button and no one talks about theirs.

Should you need parts or information on where to get something rebuilt there are a few of us that have messed with these era Oldsmobile's and have a laundry list of places that we use to get hard to find parts , just ask..... Lost in the fifties...Tedd

 

I would disagree with Tedd (and many others) which we do from time to time. If you had a SBC with three 2's and a pair of early Corvette valve covers it has a pretty decent cool factor. Keeping the Olds is still cooler. If you keep the 4 barrel put a 54-56 batwing air cleaner on it and that will be really cool. I am still betting this is a 303. If you have to replace it then I would find a 324 (54-56) which is the same externally. One word of advice, be kind to that old Ford transmission. It will be okay if you don't go popping the clutch or hot rodding it. I had a 40 Ford with that same transmission and a 265 SBC my senior year in high school (1963-64) and went through five transmissions that year. Age could have been a factor back then.

 

I'm not a fan of the "hit it with a Chevy stick" school of hot rodding. There's nothing wrong with a Chebby, it's just boring. I'm a fan of different and creative. The only thing I'd replace the Olds with would be a Ford motor, preferably something cool. If not a flathead, then an FE or maybe a Y-block.

 

We all have opinions and that is exactly what we are offering. While a Ford Y block would look cool it is really a pretty crappy engine. I think most of us agree the Olds would be the coolest. And as Forrest Gump would say, "that is all I have to say about that".

 

I think rebuilding the 303 would be fairly cost effective and simple. Changing to a different engine would require electrical system wiring, exhaust pipes and all sorts of adaptations and changes that add to cost.