Danny Boy

FYI, if you are interested.

I do not know how accurate or up to date the listings are.

http://www.historicvehicle.org/Commi...e/Pure-Gas-Map

66luvr

Nothing near me.

Bayou Olds

Allegedly (Because I am not a chemist and do not test gasoline) all Conoco gas is ethanol free.

Texascarnut

Sorry to break your bubble so to speak but that is a myth, at least in terms of being a universal guarantee. All the Conoco pumps in this area I've been at are labeled "May Contain Up To 10% Ethanol."

Here's the deal folks; all Ethanol is added to fuel by the distributor serving given brands at the time the transport truck tanks are filled for delivery to retail locations. It would be interesting to find out if a distributor can legally deliver non Ethanol containing fuel to other than a Marina or Air Field. I've done a minor bit of searching the web and cannot find anything that disputes or confirms that question beyond individual state's pump labeling requirements.

Bayou Olds

"It would be interesting to find out if a distributor can legally deliver non Ethanol containing fuel to other than a Marina or Air Field."

Yes, because ethanol is not required. It is only illegal to add it and not label it as such. I know in Louisiana the state tests for pump accuracy, octane level accuracy and if the fuel caontains ethanol and is not labeled.

380 Racer

In Iowa we have both Ethanol and Lead Free pumps. One says "contains up to 10% Ethanol", 89 Octane and is $.10 a gallon cheaper because of state tax breaks. Other pump says lead free and 87 octane. No mention of alcohol on that pump. No premium or E85 in this town.

Vega

Interested as to why so many are concerned about Ethanol in their gas? No offense just curious. As most of you know i have extensive knowledge of E85 and know a good 80% of the "bad" that comes with Ethanol is just internet myth half caused by uninformed rumors and half just pure honest mistakes on the part of the writers. E85 is a different substance than the typical 10%-20% Ethanol/Gasoline mix we get these days but i figure id chime in anyway. Respectfully of course! :-)

Vega

BTW, if interested here is a write-up i did on te subject of E85. Again it is not a write-up on modern gasoline but its loosely related and may clear up some questions people have about Ethanol in general. I'll post a link to the write-up so that anyone opposed to the subject wont have to see it cluttering up the thread but anyone interested can check it out. All respectfully still of course!
Write-up is at the bottom of the thread, same screen name as i have here
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?241603-E85&highlight=e85

Texascarnut

Have you been living under a rock?

Everyone on the planet, other than you, is aware of the fact that Ethanol attacks certain metals with a vengeance, including common steel found in fuel tanks and fuel lines use in production of vehicles produced before 2001, anything cast in pure aluminum, and often called pot metal alloys containing Zinc and Aluminum. The latter being inclusive of Carburetors and Fuel Pumps. Everyone on the planet, other than you, is aware of a phenomenon called Phase Separation when Ethanol is present in gasoline. Phase Separation begins 14 days from the time Ethanol is mixed with gasoline in the stainless steel tanks of delivery trucks and depending on subsequent exposure to air in retailer tanks and or vehicle fuel tanks becomes useless within 30 days.

So you will know, Phase Separation is because of the inherent nature of alcohol to mix with water as well as gasoline. Phase Separation occurs in gasoline when the Ethanol in it has become saturated with moisture (water) from exposure to air and separates from gasoline. Basically leaving a layer of water and a layer of alcohol in ones gas tank below the gasoline. The longer Ethanol laden fuel is in a vented gas tank the more likely the first liquid pumped into a carburetor is virtually nothing but water. Fuel less than 30 days old may pump an unholy mixture of alcohol and water into the carburetor which may result in an uncommonly violent ignition of the alcohol in an engines firing chamber.

In the most simple of terms Ethanol is methodically destroying every aspect of the fuel system found in any normally aspirated engine regardless of size or age.

Vega

Thats just not true. Again, respectfully, i know its a very touchy issue. But thats Methanol, not Ethanol. Ethanol has no corrosive proporties whatsoever. Thats the internet myth stuff i mentioned, its common knowledge amongst people who have no 1st hand experience with Ethanol. The reason Ethanol is bad for a fuel system is because it has cleaning proporties in it (not to be mistaken with corrosive proporties). Its will flush anything in your fuel system to either your filters or your carb. Both of which will choke or harm the vehicle. The reason that is an issue is because any older vehicle being converted has been running gasoline for the last 30 or so years, when Ethanol gets put in it flushes all of the build up from those 30 years of gasoline, which 30 years of gunk thrown at the fuel system all at once is a very bad thing for a vehicle. This is why only classic car guys hate E85 and anyone with a new flexfuel car loves it. Its mainly because classic guys have heard horror stories of people who tried it on their classic and didnt understand it fully before jumping in. Ethanol does not eat away the material in the tank or lines or carb, the only thing that might be in danger is the seals in the carb which is one of the things carb builders change when they build an E85 carb. But i go over a lot of that in my write-up. The thing with water is true to an extent but not in the way you described it. Its true that Ethanol does not store well, you have to run your car at least once a month or so (but then again how hard is it to let your car run for 5 minutes once every month? Even a gas powered car should get this just to keep the seals fresh) what happens is water does collect at the top and will choke the carb. However, we have mostly eliminated that by adding 15% gasoline to our Ethanol (thats why its E85 and not E100) Also adding a little gasoline to your car right before starting it up will fix that problem if youre really worried about it after leaving your car sitting. Aside from all that Ethanol has some really cool proporties to it, like i said it is a natural clensing agent and it keeps your motor very clean and will keep it healthy for many more miles than gasoline with much les waste build-up. It runs cooler, which not only keeps your motor healthier but gives you a cooler incomin air charge which helps power a little. And it has a much higher octane than Premium with at a cheaper price than Regular Unleaded. Its really a pretty cool fuel if you can get around all of the internet myths and misinformation.

Im not plugging a product, i dont have anything to sell, and im not trying to insult you, i know you dont live under a rock and am very confidant that you know quite a bit about mechanics and automotive in general. Just trying to help spread the real facts and hopefully kill off the false-info that has plagued the internet on this subject. Either way i respect your opinion on it even if you still dislike it after hearing a little more about it

Intragration

I'm not a chemist, but isn't it true that ethanol contains less energy than gasoline, so it produces less power per gallon than gasoline, and also results in poorer fuel mileage?

Lead is also a good octane booster. If I had my choice, that's what I'd put in my car.

Vega

Here's a simplified answer since my last reply was a lot of blah blah blah lol

1. ive never heard of all manufacturers switching to a new fuel system material all at once in 2001
2. E85 does not sit will but will store well at gas stations for many months, however will only store well in vehicles for about 1 month (since it is exposed to air/moisture more by frequent fill-ups than gas stations that fill up in bulk, also the lesser amount in vehicles makes it more susceptable to moisture contamination)
3. #2 is for E85, so gasoline with roughly 70% less Ethanol will be way way way more resistant to moisture, theres so little water contamination with 10-20% ethanol that it couldnt do any harm to your fuel system
4. What youre calling phase seperation is true of Ethanol, but on a much lesser scale than you have been informed of. Ethanol will last 1 month in a vehicle, not the transport truck (see how thats easily confused? Theyre both vehicles, so most people would assume the fact is about the tanker truck when it is not, its about the vehicle consuming the Ethanol)

This is the kind of misinformation im talking about. Its not bad and its nothing to villainise people over or be mad at people over, its true to an extent, but is not completely true. Most of what people believe is true about Ethonal really is true but is just taken out of context or exaggerated or not even understood fully by the people passing along the info. Its good that people are looking into facts rather than just saying "i hate it" but it does take a lot of digging to get to the real facts rather than internet rumor facts

Vega

Yes! That is true. Ethanol has less energy than gasoline so must use more of itself to create the same amount of energy, resulting in poorer mileage, roughly 20% or so these days. This is also why Ethanol runs cooler than gasoline, less energy. If you are running a flexfuel car or any vehicle set up to run at gasoline compression you will see a drop in mileage. However if you run near 13:1 compression (which is fine on E85 with its higher octane) you will see power increases that, coupled with some rear end modifcations, will actually even out the mileage decrease to where youre seeing the same mileage as gasoline.

A personal thought of mine, just my own thought, is that id love a 455 on E85, loads of compression would make loads of torque, and with a tiny rear end gear could get decent mileage, but even if it didnt knocking 20% off a motor that already gets 10mpg isnt anything im too worried about haha, just my thoughts on that

PS: Lead would be great in pre-71 cars. Actually i would recommend Lead over Ethanol in pre-71 motors on stock compression. Ethanol wouldnt do anything for power at that compression and Lead would make the heads live longer, so yes i would for sure go with Lead under those circumstances

380 Racer

Sorry but I don't believe you only lose 20% mileage going to E85 from unleaded. I have witnessed a couple friends going from race fuel to alcohol and having to use double the fuel. Maybe it's methanol not alcohol?

My wife and I both have 08 Chevies with the flex-fuel use ability. No urge to try E85 especially since the station that did have it here in town quit selling it due to lack of sales. And we are in the middle of corn country . To maintain power levels/mpg you would have to do something drastic to these motors via computer I would guess.

The only people pushing ethanol around here are the farmers.

Texascarnut

I would seriously suggest you enlighten yourself by examining why Ethanol cannot be transported in steel pipelines or in steel tank cars. You would also do well to study the reactions involved with castings of Aluminum, Zinc and combinations thereof.

I suppose you will next be purporting there has never been an issue with Ethanol and various gasket materials along with various rubber compounds that were often used in the production of fuels systems found with normally aspirated engines.

In the meantime don't be spewing false information just because you think everyone familiar with Ethanol is incorrect. And by the way, Methanol is an alcohol the same as Ethanol and like Ethanol contact with certain metals results in corrosion.

Texascarnut

With all due respect, you don't appear to even read posts correctly nor do you appear to understand that all alcohol exposed in any way to the environment absorbs moisture. Makes no difference in gasoline if it is 10% or 85% it still absorbs moisture. Phase separation of ethanol containing fuel is a fact, period end of question.

Lastly, I suppose you would say that folks like OMC, Mercury Marine, Briggs-Stratton, Kohler, Honda, have failed to get it right when they advise that warranties are voided if Ethanol containing fuels are introduced into certain engines and voided if over 10% is introduced in others. Guess what they have investigated what takes place when Ethanol is introduced into their engines. They darn sure don't do it to please the public.