hunter

Keep it 10-15, winter is coming, you don't want it freezing

jaunty75

Maybe, maybe not. Do we know for sure that the Fram filters were the cause? Have race car engines ever "grenaded" that had some other brand of filter in them? I'm guessing yes.

And if running Fram filters in race cars is such a commonly-known no-no, then why were these racers running them?

The point is actually moot, anyway, as you're comparing apples and oranges. My boulevard cruisers that will do the 1/4 mile in maybe two hours are most definitely not race cars. Maybe Fram filters are less desirable in race cars, but that doesn't disqualify them from use in daily drivers.

I have no stake in Fram. I don't own or work for the company, and I don't own stock in it. I'm just going from what I can see with my own two eyes. That brand of oil filters has been around for decades. If they really were the walking disaster areas that you all are making them out to be, they'd have been off the market long ago.

I'll put my 40 years of experience changing my own oil and successfully using Fram oil filters now and then against your three grenaded engines any day.

380 Racer

3 grenaded engines? Sorry never gave you a number did I ? You use whatever junk you want, I buy quality products for my vehicles, even the non race ones.

jaunty75

No, you didn't. I was just guessing. So how many was it? Millions?

So do I.

77vista

Wow. So much arguing over an oil change!

SuperTec 10W40 and an A/C Delco filter on the Rocket 350 for me.

We all have our preferences of oil and filter brands. I choose the brands I like, will I make a recommendation based on use? Sure. But then its up to you to take that info and use it how you wish.

jaunty75

It's what makes the world go around! It's no fun if everyone just jumps on the bandwagon all the time.

MDchanic

I think Jaunty and 380 have gotten to the crux of it.

Quality.

What would Phaedrus have said?

Here's what I say:

There IS such a thing as too much quality.

Would you upholster your car in silk?
Would you have Swarovski make you crystal light lenses?

Of course not.

An oil or a filter can be perfectly fine for one application, such as normal driving with an unmodified engine, and be inadequate for another, such as full-race in a 12:1, 8,000RPM motor. Also, there are other systems and parts that are better than ANY of us use on our cars, such as aircraft ignition and fuel system parts, that have to preform flawlessly under conditions that none of our cars will ever see. Should we all be installing those?

Further, just because something is "high-enough quality" for racing doesn't mean it''s any good at all for the street (try driving around on racing slicks in the rain).
An item working well, or not working at all, in racing should have no bearing on our decision to use it on our cars, unless we ourselves are racing.

The point isn't to get "The Best" for our cars. It's to get "the best for the job," the part that will perform the best, or provide the best durability in our particular application, and, as I said earlier, only outcomes-based research can establish this with any degree of accuracy. A huge amount of talk in the car world revolves around anecdotal "research," which is as helpful and accurate in this world as it is in any other (that is: not much, though it is emotionally appealing).
That kind of research may never be possible for us, but we should still be wary of making decisions based on the "I know a guy whose engine blew up when he was using that brand of oil" type of research.

- Eric

coppercutlass

rotella 15W40 and lucas zddp additive and oil stabilizer keeps the oil psi steady and i run an stp filter . i run the same oil in my dodge cummins powered ram i got a good deal on a drum of oil and a case of 35 filters for my truck from an old kenworth mechanic. so im stuck using 15w40 rotella for the next two to 3 years lol

69goatpgh

I have personnally seen two engines have cam/lifter failures due to oil with low ZDDP. One engine was a Ford 427 in which the cam lobe worn a hole in the lifter, my small block Chevy race motor the cam worn multiple lifters.

Yes both of these motors were new and raced. The Ford was in a 1/4 mile car and mine was in my late model circle track car.

coppercutlass

i ran rotella 15w40 during brake in on my old motor and after and never added zddp additives . it was street driven raced for two years before i put it in my dads car he has driven 5k miles since we put it in his car no issues . Now that engine was a mild build nothing crazy ., my current engine has more lift and all the go fast stuff and yes i add zddp its just cheap insurance a 13 dollar zddp additive beats an expensive rebuild . rotella does have some zinc in it but not as much as before . I think its good for a mild street engine with out the additives .

Destructor

Fram Sucks

davebw31

I am against using Diesel spec. oil in a gas engine. The "additive package" speced for oil for diesel engines is really very different than the additive package for a gas engine. Same as "roller motors" verses flat tappet hyd. camshafts engines.

BTW: even though I was a "fleet mgr" I had several 10+ yr old vehicles that only had 30-50,000 miles, and many even less out of the 2,400 "white fleet" vehicles! These vehicles were only driven a short distance to a school and back to there storage facility. Only the 1,800 school buses I had in my fleet got 18-30,000 mile per year!

Jamesbo

I wish Norm was still with us.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Up here in Montreal, (alluding a little to eric's story with the bad oil changes.)

I changed my oil once at a drive in/drive out kind of place.

He changed my oil, and wiped down the filter with a rag and claimed to have changed the filter as well.

Good thing i'm obsessive about my cars. I engrave my initials on all my oil filters/parts before i put them on.

So i was able to catch the guy. And never got my (or my family's for that matter) oil changed my anyone else, other than me, (or i guess my dad is okay too). heh

cargo442

i have never had any problem with fram products for 22 years of use in 6 different vehicles. i usually go to wal-mart and get fram products and store brand oil.

fram has a couple different types of filters, meaning good, better, best. is there best ones as good as the others?

who makes wal-mart brand filters??

cargo442

after doing some reading on-line i may be switching brands??????????

Lady72nRob71

The oil and filter holy wars are among us... Again.

The independent lab analysis of filter construction (that was linked a ways back) said a lot to me. If I know a certain filter is built better than another, for the same price, i will get the better-built one. The poorly built ones may not always fail, but the chances that it will are certainly greater. Easy decision for me.

MaxDog

So I got all of the RTV crap cleaned off of the transmission. When I went to install the new pan, which is a little bit thicker than the stock pan, the added thickness prevents the pan holes from lining up with the two hole bracket that is secured to the driver's side of the pan. So I can't get two of the bolts in, they are off by just a little bit. Damit.

I'm thinking I'm going to use a dremel to shave down the outside edge of the bracket or slightly drill out the bracket holes to make the holes in the bracket a little larger.

Stevec

Cut open a fram,purolator,wix and napa gold and compare them all. Fram sucks!

Sunshn

So I just read through this entire post, and I must say, I am now terrified to change my oil. I envision my engine exploding into flames upon turning the key. However I'm feeling daring...

72 olds with 350 rocket, 2bbl. Just put 3800 miles on in 3 consecutive months (because it's New England And I've got to squeeze all the fun into 5 months).

Using the Wix 51258 filter (most seem agreeable on that, but for those that don't, duly noted, no further commentary required).

PO used Royal Purple, mechanic suggested mobile 1 was as good, or better. Reading these posts, I fear he may be wrong. I was about to purchase 5 quart jug if mobile 1 high mileage (synthetic) for $35 but thought I would first check recommendations here.

Clearly there is little consensus, which is unfortunate. I am sticking with synthetic at this point (since it's what was being used)' but should I bail in the mobile 1? I had no idea if the importance of zinc, or ZDDP, seems like Royal Purple (10/40) has at least some?

But, should I also use the ZDDP additive? If so, how much? Also, is it possible to over tighten the oil filter?

Thanks in advance for any clear advice...

Charlie Jones

Been using Mobil one for over 30 years. Always had good luck with it. I believe synthetic oil will definitely add many miles to the life of the engine .
Yes, you can overtighten a filter. Smear clean oil on the gasket and tighten it with your hand only. Never use an oil filter wrench to tighten a filter.
If ZDDP additive gives you piece of mind , use it.

davebw31

If you still have a "rope seal" look for possible leak with Syn oil. If you have neoprene than that is good to go with Syn type. Anytime you use any modern oil you must use a ZDDP oil supplement if you want your cam to last! Of course some oil manufacture's like Brad Penn have the zinc/phosphate already added. I am currently finishing a case of Penzoil 10W40 and use the ZDDP additive. I send my oil out for analysis every other oil change and it checks good

Destructor

This is an old thread, I bet Fram oil filters still suck.

Sunshn

(Destructor) - LOL - I've heard that sentiment a lot.

(davebw31) - Not sure what a "rope seal" is, but, much to my surprise (and happiness) the engine does not leak oil, anywhere. I've placed cardboard underneath the car and has virtually zero spotting, after 4 months (and I mean zero).

In any case, if I can get Brad Penn locally, I'll go with that (assuming it's synthetic). If not, I'll use the ZDDP additive to Mobile 1 or Royal Purple. I'm sure they're are instructions, but what is the ratio?

Sunshn

I hate to be that guy that adds fuel to the fire (or oil to the fire?) but...

I had to know more about ZDDP, so, I went to the ever-trustworthy "interweb"

First, all seem to agree it is needed in flat tappet... however... the amount necessary was revealing.

Very informative article (see link below) made two interesting points:
1. Anything over 1200 ppm for ZDDP was unnecessary for non-racing engines. In fact, it stated values upwards of 1800 ppm or higher were strictly for racing, and otherwise could be harmful.
2. regarding additives: "Added the exact amount of Edelbrock Zinc Additive the manufacturer called for on the bottle... the resulting psi value here was a whopping 36% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

I think i'll stick with the Mobile 1 high mileage synthetic (1000 ppm of ZDDP), or the royal purple (1100 ppm). Seems plenty for my lowly 350, 2bbl

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836

Koda

I go for Valvoline VR1 and a good filter.

Sunshn

(Koda). That's what I'm going to do. Lot of flip-flopping, I know, but after re-reading some articles VR1 gets very high marks, has high zinc content and it's on sale. Going with 10w-30

oldcutlass

This a very long read and he does toot his own horn and its his full blog... I believe he knows what he's doing. He tested a lot of oils and ranked them. I use VR1 Racing oil also with a WIX filter.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

GoodOldsGuyDougie

Never had a problem with a fram oil filter in over 40 years of driving and changing oil.. Change any filter you get every 2-3 months. You won't have any problems.