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This stemmed from a discussion on a want ad. The debate was over whether or not a resto-mod car should use extremely rare parts that are better used on a stock restoration due to their low volume initially and even lower volume currently. I mentioned that a resto-mod car should not take up extremely rare parts as it is, in my opinion, a waste. This site is geared more towards stock restoration and use; although there are some good modded cars here and a racing section, I am of the opinion that the majority of the users align with my thoughts. The OP, however, was incensed, and that's all that needs said about the original conversation.
I view the following things as rare/specific purpose, as well as others:
Sidewinder tachs
67 Rocket Rallye Pacs
Tri Carb setups
66 W-30 shrouds
67 W-30 shrouds
Specific Rochester Quadrajets
Specific TH400s
69 H/O mirrors
66, 67, 68 OAI ducts
69 H/O air cleaners
I do not view the following as rare:
442 400 engines
W-25 hoods
cutout bumpers
442 grilles
I am of the opinion that, even if someone has money and wants such a rare part, that the seller should make sure it's going on something that is, or will be, a good example of that automobile as part of an effort to preserve the brand.
While I don't disagree with you, the reality is that this is the owner's call. AACA members have their panties in a bunch because it's cheaper for hot rodders to start with the nicest can they can find when building a street rod. Personally it saddens me when someone cuts up a beautiful older car but hey, that's not my call, and frankly, I don't want the "historical preservation police" telling me what I can or cannot do to my own cars. We also own a 300 year old hand-hewn log house, and we have specifically not applied for any historical grants because I don't want to be told what I can or cannot do to it.
Now, if we're talking about the need to turn every 70-72 car into a faux W-30, that's a different discussion..
If rare parts were saved for concours restorations only then there would be more Oldsmobile diesels on the road. Did they ever offer the oil filter adapter with oil cooler fittings on cars that weren't diesels?
You can add 1969 H/O Intakes into your list.
I do agree with you in that I know individuals looking for those rare items for their own restorations, yet its taken to be used on a clone.
I also agree with Joe as far as it's the owners call, if one gets to the part before others do and can buy it, are they willing to be considerate and say... I'll pass on it for someone that can really use it, they probably will not.
I would much rather see an individual use a viable resto produced item, like the 69 H/O mirrors as opposed to using real ones, but I'm not the parts police.
In a related way, I've had individuals get mad at me for not providing advice as I'll ask for their vin on the 69 H/O first unless I already know them. I'm not interested in helping anyone build a clone, most of them end up looking like *** and why would I want to dilute the rareity of my own car. Had an individual boast to me of how they have done years of research and would do every effort to recreate their 'clone' correctly.... the very next email he asked if there was really a hole cut out on the hood under the 69 H/O hoodscoop, I stopped responding.
I don't know...there are folks that want to build the "ultimate" Olds (at least in their eyes) and they want to use the parts that make it so.
I'm ok with that...as long as they're true Olds guys. And I think it's OK if the "Mods" you're talking about are to make it more drivable/usable.
Someone using a real shroud on a slammed 68 with deep metallic paint and 20" wheels might bother me a bit though.
Say you buy a 66 442 and have the parts to convert it to a W-30? Or a dealer trac pac 67? Or just a tri carb car?
Are there any real W-30's being restored that don't have the right parts?
(I truly don't know the answer to that question)
Plus, there's more parts out there than cars sometimes. I've seen numerous tri-carb set ups lately that aren't selling for decent prices.
I'm sure glad we live in a free society. He owns a 66 442, why shouldn't he install parts that actually came with that year car? Is that any different than 442 owners loading their cars with every option that did not come with their car? You guys are starting to sound like grumpy old Corvette owners. There is no reason that any of us should feel so entitled that we can tell others what they can or can't do with their cars and/or parts.
Last edited by oldcutlass; September 5th, 2023 at 01:39 PM.
I'll probably be the least authorative voice on this subject but I do have a thought on it -
I personally don't have any 'extremely' rare factory parts installed on my 'non-faux faux two' Cutlass, which by arguable reason of its upgraded suspension, steering, brakes, handling and drivetrain performance mods, otherwise theoretically exceeds the overall performance of a 'real' '72 SBO 442, if not its legacy... Still, I've gotten used to most non-informed randoms unfailingly asking (a) is that a 442 or (b) does it have a 442 (engine) in it... ?
But the above-ramble stated, I think the use of legitimately rare parts on a non-resto level car (cost thereof notwithstanding), while disadvantageous to those who really need them for a correct restoration, isn't something to be chastised over. Even in non-correct resto scenarios, such part usage arguably elevates a non-correct car's status even if only in the owner's own mind, maybe for purposes of car show chatter or just their own preferences to make their own ride somehow a little more special than the next guy's combo.
As a grossly simplified what-if, if I wanted a W25 hood setup on my car and options within my immediate reach were a Thornton repro or a really nice OEM, if all were essentially equal as to the ultimate costs of getting either mated to my car, I'd likely go with the OEM, even if its rarity were substantive and might ultimately deprive someone else's genuine project the option of maintaining originality - not to be spiteful but because for me it's a factory part even if not original or optional for my trim-model car, it might maintain its return on investment at such time I might sell the car and/or because it might be enjoyably chatter-worthy amongst the cruise/show crowds when discussing our builds.
Last edited by 70sgeek; September 5th, 2023 at 02:10 PM.
We can all have our own opinions, but it is not going to really influence what anybody does. I look at some of the prices of rare parts and shake my head. Prices alone will keep many restomoders from using rare parts. I am glad I neither the budget nor the patience to do one of these high point rare cars.
I get it, people want those ultra rare parts on bonafide cars etc. in a perfect world, yes that would be great. How many people scout those rare parts for one purpose only, flip and make cash. Does that make them scoundrels just the same as someone wanting to build a resto mod? Maybe I am in the minority but someones car and parts are their business, while many don’t like the idea of what they are doing with them its really none of anyone’s business. If the seller of rare parts feels that way they can simply say no, these parts are for true verified restoration cars only..The OP on this situation is building a 66 442, so not sure why this became a problem. Tricarbs are often found on every model of Olds as people put them on many different models since there introduction in 1966. I know of a 69 88 in Canada the guy has a tricarb on, not to long ago somebody with a 66 shroud and tricarb was on a 68 HO car was talked about on here or a FB page. The car hobby is vast, many ideas of whats cool whats not. However we don’t need a vintage police force in the hobby.
On a another note I go to a 3 day car show yearly out west, this year there were a couple rare hard to find factory HP dual 4 barrel 409 engines in trifive chevies, straight axle gasser style cars..I love those engines and cars, nothing better in my opinion, however that rare 409 in some folks opinion shoukd be in a 1962 bubbletop.
Last edited by Andy; September 5th, 2023 at 06:40 PM.
I'm more of a purist, so stock, genuine, GM parts should go on your GM car. If at all possible. Used or new. As much as I'd like to see rare, genuine parts "saved" for those cars that would be more "deserving," that is only my own personal opinion driving that emotion. If I want it to go to a deserving home, then I could choose to decide whether or not to part with the item. But I'm not in the business of dictating to anyone how to treat their parts once bought from me. That seems a bit odd. Maybe even creepy.
If I happen to sell an unobtainium or uber-rare part, the ONLY thing I care about is if the buyer coughs up the agreed upon price. I don't care if they mount it on their kid's pedal car once I get paid. The person paid me money for the right to decide that part's fate in the world as I relinquish all parental rights of said part from that point on.
I believe that it is up to the proprietors discretion to do what they please with these parts. I would never chastise my friends (or anyone) for having a numbered tri-power /air cleaner on his documented ‘68 Hurst, oh wait…, I almost forgot to mention RAG on this site as well with his ‘68 Hurst with a tri-power. (That’s two) I am a purist at heart, and I do what I can to hide my deviations, but I also can accept that there are things that are not only out of my control, but not my concern. Life is truly too short to commit any amount of significant irritation to this cause…..,otherwise you’ll likely stroke-out when you see my (gasp) station wagon!!
Heath there is a member of NTOC that has a 68 H/O with tri-power on it. He is a very nice guy with a couple of very nice cars and his daughter has an outstanding 65 Cutlass.
Been watching this one. Listen if someone wants to purchase these rare parts then so be them. Someone the original cars may never be found. So let the people that want to buy them buy them. It's not your dollar. Otherwise go find a rare factory car so you can take 4 years to restore it like I did! Otherwise stop!!! Koda I understand your thoughts but reality is what it is.
Heath there is a member of NTOC that has a 68 H/O with tri-power on it. He is a very nice guy with a couple of very nice cars and his daughter has an outstanding 65 Cutlass.
The photo I’d posted was from said member..😉 Respect/appreciation….
I don't think anybody should put rare factory parts on a restomod. Matter of fact, I don't think anybody should even butcher up a nice original car into a restomod.
At the same time, I wouldn't want to live in a place that would make it an illegal practice.
It is possible for the human brain to contain two such contradictory thoughts -- we are complex creatures.
Tri-power is a novelty of nostalgia. A 4bbl performs better. So, as us Gen Xers become the majority caretakers of these cars, the tri-power market will crash because we didn't grow up admiring them. Of course, there are exceptions, but I feel like the majority of car guys my age feel the same way. So, get your $4000 while you can.
My dad wants me to put a tri-power on something in the worst way. I have no interest whatsoever. I'd rather have Webers or an Algon injection setup. They're way cooler.
I think the irritation is being misplaced. Whether the part is on the car it "belongs on" or not, at least it's being used, seen and cared about.
What about those rare parts stashes, someone who has multiples of a rare/high demand part stashed in boxes on shelves with no intent of using or selling them? Perhaps that's the real "crime"?
True. I’m learning they are rare more due to the limited production years and the changes made for 64 make most parts exclusive to those 3 years.
Olds made just under 300,000 Y-body cars over the three years of production. They aren't that rare. Until recently they were not popular, so few were saved.
I have a friend with a LS6 Chevelle. The “purists” hassle him because of the LS engine, Holley digital dash, turbo, and all the other aftermarket parts.
WHAAAA!
All the valuable factory stuff was long gone when he got it. It was just a solid old musclecar with the expensive drivetrain MIA.
It would be one thing if he bought an original, numbers matching car, and then proceed to LS swap it. But that isn’t what happened here. He modified a solid Chevelle that just happened to have LS6 numbers.
He did tell one old man if it bothered him that much, he should buy it from him and put it back stock. Big surprise, my friend still owns the car.
To me, stock is boring. Unless it’s a survivor car, or a car with history, or something REALLY unusual, make it your own. More than likely, someone buying a new musclecar in the 60s couldn’t wait to bolt on new wheels/tires, big tach on the steering column, headers or any of the other day 2 modifications. That’s the way it was, that’s the way it is today.
Having said all that, given the choice of spending big money of factory original valuable parts, or better performing modern replacements, it’s a no brainer. I would much rather spend a couple grand on aftermarket aluminum heads for my project, instead of 5 times that amount for period correct heads.
My dream car is a 68 Hurst Olds. I’ll probably never own a real one. I would have a hard time resisting the temptation to add little things to personalize it, not to mention the fear of some idiot wrecking into me because he was too busy with his phone to pay attention. I would much rather clone a 68 cutlass as a hurst Olds, but with cheaper modern equipment.
The paint dab, date code, and chalk mark fanatics can be a blessing and a curse. I have a family friend (now deceased) that had several corvettes. I remember him telling a story about judging at a national meet, if I remember correctly the judge was critical of the paint quality in one of the door jambs. I was kinda young at the time, but if I remember correctly the judge felt it was too shiny, or didn’t have enough orange peel, or some other concern. He kept telling the judge it was factory untouched paint, if there was a flaw, GM put it there. I don’t know for a fact if it was true, but that’s the kinda crap high dollar restorations have to deal with. No thanks.
... All the valuable factory stuff was long gone when he got it. It was just a solid old musclecar with the expensive drivetrain MIA. It would be one thing if he bought an original, numbers matching car, and then proceed to LS swap it. But that isn’t what happened here. He modified a solid Chevelle that just happened to have LS6 numbers.
But you do know there's a guy right here on CO who swapped an LS into a restored W-30 convertible, right?
Id have to add anything 61-63 F85 related to the rare parts list as I'm finding out the hard way haha
Those are rare because they all either rusted off the face of the Earth or people just scrapped them because nobody wanted them. Today, there are a growing number of people messing with them but the market is not enough for the aftermarket to pick them up and make parts.
But you do know there's a guy right here on CO who swapped an LS into a restored W-30 convertible, right?
May the fleas of a 1000 camels infest his armpits!!!
I was not aware of that. I tend to ignore any threads with Chevy or LS swap questions. I see enough of that crap at the track and car shows, I refuse to give it any attention here.
Since the subject has come up, this is the perfect opportunity to share some of my favorite anti LS funnies.
I have a source telling me that whistlindiesel is going to start buying restored rare muscle cars and do his "durability tests" on them. That will cause people to cry. But it is his car to do as he pleases I guess. Love watching his videos but have to cringe now and then.
I have a source telling me that whistlindiesel is going to start buying restored rare muscle cars and do his "durability tests" on them. That will cause people to cry. But it is his car to do as he pleases I guess. Love watching his videos but have to cringe now and then.
I think I watched half of one of his schticks. I don't get it. Maybe I'm jealous that I can't wreck expensive shjt for a living?
That W-30 ragtop getting the original drivetrain yanked And sold off then replaced by an LS motor still makes me cringe. That car fits right into this thread. He bought the car so he can do whatever he wants to it.
Kind of the opposite of rare parts in a hot rod. It was the rare car. With nothing new. Now it's a restored nice car with new modern drivetrain. Still a very nice car but...
September 5th, 2023, 10:53 AM
There is no reason that any of us should feel so entitled that we can tell others what they can or can't do with their cars and/or parts.
