88Deltakid

I own a 1978 Olds Delta which I have "supposedly" a V8 350 block with 60's Jetstar heads. Should I replace this with a crate Olds 350 or 455?

72 cutlass455

What are the number on the heads? what is the number on the block?

2blu442

In case your not familiar with Oldsmobile engines here's a thread showing where to find the casting numbers on blocks and heads. Please check what you have and post the numbers for us. We can do a better job of giving advice once we know what you have. John

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...s-engines.html

DeltaPace77

You've got just about any engine option you can imagine, but you didn't mention why you're wanting to replace the existing one. Keep in mind, some of this era's cars actually came with SB Chevy's from the factory, with some here dropping in BB Chevy's. The tranny mounting pattern's different though. In my case went Olds 455, which drops right in, except some accessory bracket mods and different length belts. Actually built it myself, after having machining done. Thing really moves.

MDchanic

Why do you want to replace it?

Is it broken?

- Eric

joe_padavano

Finally! The correct response to the OP...

The mindreading still isn't working, so by providing more info, you'll get a more useful answer.

88Deltakid

Please excuse the late response but the engine is leaking from oil from the pan, valve cover gasket and possibly rear main seal. I'm also leaking transmission fluid from my trans pan gasket and maybe seal as well. I was advised to reseal engine but, then it will smoke more than the little that comes out now or either rebuild which everyone in my area is saying $2500 - $3000. Not sure which way to go! If I should do a crate or if I should piece an engine together(Mom works at O'Reilly auto Parts)? I will get numbers today while on my lunch break

MDchanic

You're all over the place here.
If Mom works ar O'Reilly's, then she should be able to tell you that a set of valve cover gaskets is somewhere under $20, a trans gasket and filter and an oil pan gasket about the same.

A real main seal is a pain in the butt no matter what you do, but frankly, for the amount of trouble, what's wrong with leaving a pan under the car where you park at home?

I don't understand.
How will fixing leaky gaskets make the engine smoke?
And how much does it smoke now?

I'm just not sure how you get from spending maybe $100 for gaskets, sealer, oil, etc., to $3,000 for a rebuild or a new engine.

Please give us more details, so we can help you do whatever makes the most sense.

- Eric

88Deltakid

From what i'm beintg told is once the engine is sealed back up the pressure is going to rise in the engine which is supposedly going to make the engine smoke even more because of pistons and rings

MDchanic

You need to stop listening to the person who told you this.

If he says that it's sunny out, you need to bring your rain gear.
If he is a relative, you need to nod politely, and ignore every word.

If the crankcase gaskets and seals you mentioned were so loose that they were letting pressure out of the crankcase, you would have oil blowing all over the place, like a giant rain storm. Oil seeps out slowly, generally due to gravity and capillary action, not due to pressure.

Then there is the matter of that thing called PCV, which stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation. There is a thing called a PCV valve connected by a hose to your intake manifold, at the bottom of the carburetor. It allows the engine to suck in gasses from the crankcase when it's going fast enough to do so. It sucks from the intake manifold, through the valve in the valve cover, through the whole engine, and in through the opposite valve cover, with fresh air entering the engine through a fiber filter in the side of the air cleaner.
Which is to say that the engine is under vacuum, not pressure, and even if the PCV and hose were completely clogged (which they may be), the other side would still be open into the air cleaner and you would NOT develop pressure in the crankcase.

Tell us about other advice you've gotten from this individual, for your own safety.

So, how much does your engine smoke?

- Eric

88Deltakid

Only time I can witness it smoking is durring start up and when it's cold it really smokes alot

AZ455

What color is the smoke on start up? If it's black it's fuel. Are you sure it's not actually steam on cold mornings?

MDchanic

+1.

White = water mist (either from unvaporized water because the engine is cold, or from a blown head gasket. Blown head gasket will smell like antifreeze).

Black = Gasoline - rich mixture.

Blue = Oil (Smells like ATF if it's your vacuum modulator)

- Eric

Run to Rund

Local shops may do cheap rebuilds and call them crate or exchange engines, but there are no real crate engines available for Olds. Only Chevy, etc.

88Deltakid

The smoke is white and it definitely doesn't smell like Antifreeze.

88Deltakid

The crate engines I was looking at were from this website http://www.precisionengine.com/rebui...nes/index.html please inform me if their false advertising.

MDchanic

All cars will have white water mist (you can't see water vapor) come out of their pipes on a cool day, as water is a product of combustion, and when the exhaust pipes and mufflers are cool, the water vapor in the exhaust is cooled by the walls of the pipes and condenses into liquid water mist, which you can see come out the pipes.

Hold your hand right behind the pipe for a minute, immediately after starting, while the engine is doing this, and then check your hand - if it's wet and smells like exhaust, it was water. If it's a bit greasy and smells like burned oil, it's oil.
If it's wet, and your not sure if it's antifreeze, lick it - antifreeze tastes sweet (but don't drink it!).

If you're not sure what burning oil smells like, pour a few drops onto a hot exhaust manifold - you'll know. Do the same with a few drops of ATF and you'll know what a bad vacuum modulator smells like, too.

To repeat, water out the tailpipe on cold startup is normal.

- Eric

MDchanic

Well, they look like they're selling crate engines.

Anyone in the Houston area ever deal with these guys?

- Eric

DeltaPace77

You mentioned older heads, so could be dried up valve seals causing the mentioned oil problems. Swapping engines isn't a bad idea to keep you on the road, but more money/time than you might think. Not sure on the tranny, as a simple DIY service for under $100 bucks may take care of it. For exterior leaks, clean everything up, put UV dye in the engine/tranny oil pans and after driving a bit scan with a UV flashlight. Stuffs not expensive now, and surely save you money, showing whats going on.

Redog

Whoa, slow down there, speedy!!

Valve cover gaskets are cheap. I bought the reusable kind for $25. Oil pan gaskets are cheap too, A bit of a PIA to replace, but still a hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the engine.

The white steam you see is nothing since it doesn't smell like anti-freeze.

I admit that I want to drop a 330 in my Delta before the 307 goes boom, but it's a 307

rustyroger

Before you go to the trouble and expense of replacing the engine (which I and a few others suspect you don't need to do);
Does the engine use oil - less than 1000 miles per quart?;
Does it lose any coolant?;
Does it run badly, hard to start, misfiring, vibration, down on power?.

A compression check and a good look at the plugs will tell you a lot about the state of the engine.
Some engine rebuilders do a fine job, others not so good, a good rebuild won't come cheap, a poor job will cost even more in the long term.
I get the impression you want to hear that your engine is knackered, it seems to me, and I dont think I'm alone here, your engine and transmission are showing signs of age, but not necessarily wear.
Check the breathers, change the leaking seals, and I think your engine will have a lot of good service left in it.
Changing the rear main will be a PITA, if you can tolerate a small leak you might just put up with it until such time as when you can pull the engine to do the job.

Dont assume the worst, my neighbour once came to me in distress because she thought her rear suspension was falling apart, I fixed it by securing the jack that was rattling in the trunk.

Roger.

MDchanic

It's not copying if you said what I wanted to say, is it ?

I was trying to be unusually polite , so as not to scare him away, but I'm glad that you said it (almost) as clearly as you could (I'm sure all of us here could think of a few other words to use that would be even more clear...).

On the other hand, if he keeps taking advice from this guy, he'll make ice extra-fast by putting boiling water in his ice cube trays, and he'll never fall off the edge of the earth.

- Eric

bigD

my advice would be to fix your leaks and have a tune up done(by a reputable shop) and drive the thing for a while to see what you actually have. while you've got that going on find some good manuals & related literature and learn as much as you can about your engine.

you really haven't told us much about the engines running characteristics, is it an oil burner? does it start decent? how does it act out on the road?


i'd take a decent 350 with early heads and good tuning over a questionable "crate engine" everytime in this situation. truth be told you probably have a great starting point if you want to soup 'er up a bit, the early heads with the later block will give you decent compression that will run on about any grade of gas you care to run and it would probably respond well to headers, an intake upgrade and such.

Run to Rund

I have no experience with the company you cite. Unfortunately, there are many, many places where a shop can cut corners to give a better price, and the result can be an engine that isn't much better (or is even worse) than what you had before. Shipping a 600 lb. engine is expensive, too.

72 cutlass455

The reason I wanted to know the numbers on the block and heads was to get past the hear say and to lock down what you have. It may be better to fix what you have. The folks here at the forum have many years of experience working on and with these specific engines.

88Deltakid

Please excuse the late response but I have been getting home late from school. As far as the car starting up their is no problem with start up as ther car has a carburetor which seems to be fyne. The car runs so strong it's "ridiculous." Only problem I had was when it was really cold in the mid too late 40's(degrees) and the car cut off while I was at a stop light(I didn't let the car warm up as long as i should). Oil usage I really can't pin point because of the leaks. History- I got the car back in 2004, prior to me getting the car. It sat for at least 6 months before I got it. I found a reciept where the person who owned the car got the engine rebuilt(can't remember year). Since I've had the car i've did little things to it like tune-up and new fuel lines which was about 3 years ago but don't drive the car much. Since 2004 I've put only about 4k miles on it.

MDchanic

I'm still confused.

You've got a good-running Olds, which you've had and been driving for seven years, which, as near as I can tell has a few leaky gaskets but has never given you any trouble, and which had a professional rebuild (with a receipt) several thousand miles ago. Why do you want to rebuild or replace the engine?

- Eric

bigD

i bet if you fix your oil leaks and run some seafoam thru a couple tanks of gas you'd be quite happy with the car. you might even simply check the valve cover & oil pan bolts to see if they are loose, same for the tranny pan.

me personally, after reading your last post there is no way i'd swap that engine out for a generic crate motor!! now that we know that you have a good foundation it's time for you to polish your tuning skills...

what are you running for a carb? how about the ignition?

88Deltakid

The rebuild of the engine happen before I got the car. I don't want to rebulid or replace the engine, especially if I don't need it (money I can spend else where). As for the carb i'm not sure if it's the carb that came with the car or not. My uncle has a 650 Holley Carb he will let me have which all I need is the gaskets too put it on. Ignition system is the factory system that came with the car.

bigD

hei is good, and repair parts for it are very reasonably priced... the holley carb may be more hassle than its worth... bu the time you adapt it to the manifold and set up the choke it'd be simpler to have the factory Q-jet rebuilt if needed. i'd put a can of seafoam in with every fill up and see how it acts.

rustyroger

To sum up (if I'm reading this right) you have a great running engine with leaks you might find on any car, possibly in need of a tune up?.

I wish I only had problems like that on a few cars I've owned.

Roger.

88Deltakid

triied looking for the numbers on the engine but i couldn't see anything. Engine needs a good cleaning, just not sure of how too do it without taking engine completely apart.

72 cutlass455

In front of the valve covers there is a recessed ledge between valve covers that will have the engine number. in front of the number 1 spark plug on the heads there should be a number on small blocks a letter on big blocks. a photo sure is worth a thousand words.

88Deltakid

Besides their being a bunch of gunk on the engine I was unable to locate an numbers off the engine. Looks like i might have to take engine out just to get too numbers on block. I had to take pictures with my phone but here we go.

E2.jpg

E.jpg

Rickman48

I'd be moving that 'grass' from the r/s exhaust manifold by the upper control arm - fires are NFG to any motor!!

svnt442

Well it's definitely an Olds engine, but beyond that I can't help much.

Get the rubber thing off that you see in the first pic and clean it off so you can read the numbers. Then get a pic of the number that is cast on the cylinder head just below the valve cover at the front of the head near #1 spark plug. It will be a large number like 3A or 6......something like that.

MDchanic

Here are the locations of the numbers that will help the most:







Let us know what you find. And you better hope those heads don't say "2A" on them .

- Eric

Rickman48

DO NOT ORDER ANYTHING FROM THAT "REBUILDER"!!
IF IT'S THE SAME I'M THINKING OF, HE'S A "RECONDITIONER", AND PUTS OUT JUNK!!

PM me for further details.

Dave Siltman

It sounds to me like a thorough de-greasing will yield the cause of some of the leaks. After cleaning, it might take longer than you think, tighten all the valve-cover bolts, oil pan bolts, and front cover bolts. Check, or change the oil and run the engine for a couple of days, then check for leaks again. If the motor was rebuilt, I'd be willing to bet some of the fasteners needed to be re-torqued. As many here stated, it sounds like you have some minor "tweaking" ahead of you---not a major overhaul. Try what the people here are suggesting, we have nothing to gain by "steering" you in the wrong direction, and more often than not have experienced some of the same issues and have figured out the solution. Don't throw money away.

88Deltakid

@Rickman48 thanks for the heads up.

@Dave Siltman - once I can figure out how to clean the engine without messing something up i'll change out my oil and transmission pan.